Leaderboard

Why spend time pining for a Blackmagic P4K when the GH5 does footage like this in 8bit 4K 50p? Not even 10bit!! How can it get any better? Invest in glass!

Do we still need proof that the GH5 is a good camera when used properly? I keep saying it but every GH5 owner who is waiting to be ‘blown - away’ by the P4k may need to manage their expectations.........

Robert Rodriguez and Rebel Without a Crew should be a case study for any narrative filmmaker going the DIY/no budget route. No to little dialogue is a great idea for a first film, that’s how my film is turning out now. But this camcorder idea isn’t about being overwhelmed by a production, or even about the ease of production, per se, it’s about the freedom of production. It’s about filming ideas that can be shot quickly by just going out and doing it... Look at the French New Wave, Dogme 95, Mumblecore... The XF400 would be the perfect tool. Compact with all the amenities for an all in one solution. 4K up to 60p. DPAF. But no Canon Log. Even without it, it’s still a contender because it is the only option with 4K 60p at $3000 or less. If I was buying today it would be between this and the Z90.

I can feel my passion coming back for the GH5. I wonder if he used the SLR Magic Rangefinder on his Kowa 8-Z. This is my setup with the Kowa anamorphic. Really nice to focus. Will have to try and get hold of that Nikkor he used though, it clearly adds something dreamy and extra.

Where do you guys watch uncompressed videos online?

I use an FZ2500 and a DVX200 on my shoots. Once a Ninja V arrives, I think I'll be pretty well set ? for all my narrative needs.

My only complaint with the GH5/GH5S has to do with highlight roll-off. With that stated, if you can keep your highlights controlled by not over exposing or blur the hell out of them if in a background, the GH5/GH5S is certainly a winner.

I haven't used the UX-90 but, yes, looking at the spec and some videos it does seem to share much of the muchness of the FZ2500 so your progression path is sound from that point of view. But I think its the much of a muchness aspect that might tie you up in a few knots in terms of choosing which of these systems to go for. I don't think you can go that far wrong with any of them for what you are talking about and for the FZ2500/UX-90 combo you could just as easily read RX10x/Z-90 if you wanted to. Having said that..... If you break this down to basics in terms of wanting a camcorder then by camcorder you are basically saying something as a single self contained item you can put in a bag, take out, switch on and start shooting. No mode switching, no additional filters, no lens swapping, no adapters, no dual audio, no rigging....Nothing. The funny thing about the Swiss Army Knife LS300 and the gazillion mount adapters and speed booster options that we can use to get it to play with almost every lens under the sun is that we often overlook the fact that it can actually be used in exactly the same way as the camcorders that you are looking at. Just because it has an almost infinite interchangeable mount capability due to it having the MFT mount as its base, it doesn't mean we have to use it. If we put a native MFT lens like the Olympus 12-100mm lens on it and leave it there then it is exactly like those other camcorders, with a similar footprint, but with one crucial difference of course which is its much larger sensor. And that will give you much more of a muchness than the muchness of the other ones The flexibility of the LS300 that is afforded by the mount then becomes an expansion option that you can choose to exploit or not rather than just its raison d'être as its often viewed. If you never take that option and just leave the Olympus 12-100mm (or something similar) on it then it will just be a camcorder like the ones above but with a bigger sensor. Which makes it a 4K Super35 sensor camcorder with 10x zoom for about £3.5K that you can add 4K60p, significant monitoring and ProRes recording to for another £500. These are two really interesting videos from a few years ago by Rick Young about using the LS300. The first is about just using it with MFT lenses and how surprised he was about how well they performed against his expectation but the second one is probably of more interest in that it looks at using it in the real world as a camcorder. Obviously, the job he was using it on was what we would call "video video" rather than cinematic so disregard the aesthetic but it offers some good honest insights as to how it performs in the true sense of being a camcorder rather than adding a load of modified lenses to it. I remember you thinking about using a C100 for event work so I think it might also be informative from that point of view if you wanted to use the LS300 in that role. Anyway, short answer, pick up a used FZ2500 and get on with it. Longer answer, pick up a used LS300 and 12-100mm and get on with it in exactly the same way with a bit more room to breathe.

Looks good, but would love to see this at normal playback speed.

The 405 has been tested by the EBU folks, and the two profiles have 9.7 and 10.7 stops of DR. The XC10 tested at just over 11, so if DR is why you'd want C-log then you might still be satisfied. The full report is here. https://tech.ebu.ch/files/live/sites/tech/files/shared/tech/tech3335_s27.pdf Edit: just realised you were talking about the XF400. Doh!

Dual channel phantom power ... then XLR to mini cables. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/406897-REG/Denecke_PS_2_PS_2_Portable_Dual.html These are dead quiet but eat batteries ... Perhaps a better solution is a PIX-E5 external recorder with a PIX-LR ... pro grade preamps and limiters and LED monitoring. Or an Atomos recorder. Bob

IronFilm, I appreciate your input here and definitely have learned a ton about audio from you, but we are not having the same discussion. In fact, we are on two totally different planets. I’ve worked (acted, boom operated, ran lights, built sets, etc...) on no budget, DIY films and the notion that they will be less than any other, low budget/no budget production just isn’t factual. It’s different and you make sacrifices that need to be made but I am not talking about creating technical trash, I’m talking about making some secessions and using technology to make the process easier. But for the sake of argument, have you really evaluated the state of micro budget and low budget filmmaking lately? I’m talking anywhere from a $1000-$50,000 budget. There is almost no money to be made and very little distribution options. Short films are great, I’m working on one but the market is so saturated that it’s easy to get lost in the mix. Now I could save up for a year or two and have enough money to rent a Wet Alexa or a Red and shoot the slickest 5 minute short. Lots of people do it, and lots of people end up spending 20,000 bucks to have their expensive short die a slow death on YouTube. So what good is that? With the same money, I could make 2-3 run and gun features in 2 years, enter them in festivals, seek out distributors, use some of that money to get an aggregator, or release them on Amazon as a last chance option. It’s an odds game. Did you know the last successful, no budget film was a found footage film called The Break In, shot on an iPhone, released on Amazon and the filmmaker has made millions of dollars with it. I’m not delusional enough to think I’ll hit that jackpot... that’s why I’m a hobbyist with a day job. But as I get older, and going forward with this whacky hobby, I know which path I’d rather follow. Just my opinion. Great points and thanks for replying. I like EOSHD, there are some great and helpful people around here, some of which I would call friends, but it is a bubble... Once DSLRs came around, I never even considered a camcorder... EWW... been there, done that. But I also haven’t really looked at what’s available either in the sub-$3000 camcorder market. And after checking out the specs yesterday while drinking my coffee... I thought to myself... hmm. After looking at some videos... I thought... wow that could be usable. I could be the only human that sees the possibilities here, and I’d never recommend it to anyone if they asked me what camera should I get, but for the reasons I’ve previously stated... I find the possibilities exciting.

Yes, I read your previous replies to others and understood where you are coming from. I was going to reply but saw you might be replying so I waited Yeah, if it's for different projects then that's awesome and you should totally do it. In which case I'd suggest that you compromise on features pretty heavily in favour of ease of use and convenience and reliabily. Also consider the whole process from shooting to editing to grading and delivery. If you're like me and have lots of footage on drives waiting for editing then the bottleneck isn't the shooting and so you should focus on streamlining the edit instead. Even consider a camera with a hybrid profile that has decent DR but wouldn't need grading. Anything to get the ideas finished and shared, while still being of acceptable quality for your tastes and preferences. If there's a large gap between your 5d and this camera then that might be a good thing because choosing which setup to shoot it on will help you to understand how much a project means to you, which is a great thing to know before you start shooting and have already made art-department type of decisions.

That must be Leica's contribution to the joint venture....

The Fringer adapter is looking good on the X-T3:

25-250 T2.9? Are you sure? Heard about 25-100 T2.9 in a PL mount, but nothing about 25-250..

*the same sensor* Yep!! Nobody has done the most obvious comparison yet!!

As does the GH5s ... which would have been a better camera to compare ... as they perhaps share the same sensor.

Ah....cheers. They should have that system for Trump's tweets.

The X-T3 has BluetoothLE for remote control and file transfer as well as wifi. It remains to be seen how this is implemented in their app but once it is then its not beyond the bounds of possibility that some enterprising soul can replicate it to knock together a top display for it that sits in the hotshot using this small and cheap ESP32 board with integrated OLED display if anyone really wanted one.

A top display is pretty much a must for most pro photographers. One can live without it but its a pita. But on the Fuji X-T3 I dont agree that its such a big deal that the camera becomes irrelevant. Thats sounds like quite an exaggeration imo. Because with Fujis manual controls you can still see and adjust the settings without it.

@mercer yes, I remember your fondness for the XC10 Reading your other comments, and talking in the context of getting the job done, I think there's a few approaches you could take, depending on how you shoot. 1) just use the 5D for everything. You already own it, no work in post matching cameras, and it's only one setup to carry around with one type of battery, media, etc. 2) get additional cameras. If you go this route then if at all possible I'd suggest matching brands so the colour science (which I remember is a priority for you) matches easily in post. You may even consider another ML camera as extra time on set may pay off in editing (or may not!). If you use multiple cameras on set it may even be worthwhile matching lenses and battery types in order to cut down on what you're carrying around. It sounds to me like buying a camcorder may be tempting simply because a DSLR and ML is fiddly and annoying, which I totally understand. I challenge you to think about the film you are making and ask yourself how many shots in the final edit will be able to be captured with a camcorder. Most films these days have relatively shallow DoF on almost all shots except wide and establishing shots, and although a camcorder would be great for those, will it really be more efficient to have an entire second setup instead of the camera you are already using for most other shots?

How cheap the X-H1 will be? If it won't go much lower than 1000euros, the X-T3 is a vastly superior camera for 1549euros only, and brand new. This is a landmark camera in the long history of Fuji, it will stay relevant for at least half a decade from now.

s16 was the standard for indie film productions for the simple fact that it was portable, cheap and you didn't have to fuss around with focus. You put a wide angle lens on and put it in f5.6 and you are golden. Camcorders offer much of the same conveniences. But I can't help but feel the newer variants do look dedicedly more video. s16 should be max 2k like the digital bolex. Having said that, I have seen xc10 footage which I would say is filmic: That would be my first choice. My setup for the kind of intimate filmmaking you are talking about is to have a s16 digital camera, and have my talent wired with a tascam dl-10 and team lav mics. Gives u great freedom and mobility.

Yeah! You might want to reread it, I did, and it is AMAZING how much i know about filmmaking now compared to the first time i read it years ago. i mean i still dont kno wtf im doing lol... but. its getting better anyway, remember how RR cut Mariachi *on video*, and THAT got the film sold?!?!? All the screwy cuts that didnt work, which he THEN made part of the style of the film...? crazy stuff!! anyway, MY first short that im finishing right now doesnt have dialogue because i was literally like Eff that Im not dealing with recording audio on the set, so I wrote something without dialogue ? glad i did~! Easy! and then it also has that international no subtitles "transcending language" kind of flair maybe write something w/o dialogue, something short, just for the ease of shooting it @mercer...? just a thought!!

Yeah I have it, not in a while though... strange to think that so much time has passed, but I read that back in my 20s... ugh early 20s. Yuck. Great book though. If anybody ever thinks they are bogged down with minutiae, read that book... it will get you on track.

I have the Sony PXW Z90, bigger brother to the NX80 and AX700. Its pretty good if you want built in ND's, pro audio inputs and full customization over picture profiles. Also I much prefer camcorder ergonomics to ANY mirrorless or dslr, just feels right in the hand.

Well, until I came to this site, I thought a lot of filmmakers were one man band. I guess coming to age in the 90s when indie cinema was in its glory days, you heard stories of Soderberg shooting Sex Lies and Videotape, or Kevin Smith shooting Clerks, or Robert Rodriguez shooting El Mariachi for $7000. These guys wrote their scripts, rented a camera, directed and shot their film. I love operating the camera and the impromptu shot creation, mixed with storyboards and shot lists... I just don’t care about codecs, follow focus units, and half the things a lot of folks around here care about. I care about story and composition. I don’t think others are wrong, I’m the weirdo around here.

Personally, I dont think there is an underlying problem here. The drone is pointed almost directly into the sun - the brightest possible light source and the bottom left (especially) is shielded from the sun and receiving very little light. There could easily be 30 stops of dynamic range in this screenshot - which might look good to our own eyes but wont look good to a 1 inch sensor (especially with video.) If you look around you will see plenty of sunset/sunrise videos taken with something like a Mavic and they tend to look pretty terrible because in order to get decent detail in your shadows you have to blow out your highlights. As an example here is a screenshot of a photo taken with the A7riii in raw (which obviously has a lot more DR than a Mavic sensor.) The red areas show the clipped highlights and the blue shows the shadows with no detail - the shot is obviously unusable. Typically you cant get decent video from a Mavic shooting directly into the sun.

I really hope the new FF GH model will have full Log curve instead of lite

It's hard to tell anything from YouTube, so compressed. A candle is not a good low light test either because you are either at full saturation of the pixel (bright flame), or barely nothing (black background). NEXT!

quite a great feature for sure. Still waiting for full ACES support with Color Science 4 though.

The 120p is very detailed. 1.28x crop though. Unless anyone knows a workaround

SPEEDMASTER F0.95 is a sharpness monster wide open. It's Leica-rivalling. And yes that crop is a 1:1 crop of the 4K image, ISO 1600. Classic Chrome, noise reduction not needed. Who needs 8K?!

FWIW, the feature film that won the audience award at the film festival I help run was shot by a novice on a FX-1000. It looked pretty lousy. Didn't matter to the audience though. The writing and acting carried the film. The only feature length narrative I've ever managed to shoot and edit was done on a Canon XH A1...no regrets. I like great IQ too and will pursue it, don't get me wrong, but just shoot your thing with whatever it takes. Nobody outside of other film people really care about the tools of the craft, just the results.

Always thought those camcorders were for porn

Wow the pocket really blows the gh5 away.

I have a GH5 and Sony FDR AX-700. I really like the Sony, especially since I don't have to worry about autofocus (alas, aging eyes). I use it for both personal and professional work (disability policy related video interviews and stories). In any event, this short video gives you a sense of the Sony colors - less than a minute on our dahlias -

You can punch in to focus while recording!!!! WOOOW!

X-T3 in da house! Just a quick glimpse at the image, but I already have a feeling it's the best I've ever seen from a camera this price. Wonderful codec and detail. I am trying the Zhongyi SpeedMaster 35mm F0.95, which is also a positive first impressions, very clean bokeh and Noctilux-like rendering. I am letting that duke it out with a couple of cheap Speed Booster clones though, to see if it's worth the money over, say, a Minolta 50mm F1.4 + SB. Hey guess what - you can punch in to focus during 4K recording and the quality is incredibly detailed, unlike Sony. The EVF is better than A7 III hands down. I am using Film Simulation bracket-mode for stills which is right next to Movie mode on the drive lever, makes it a bit easier to switch. 1/50 assigned to "T" on the shutter dial. Just waiting for my B+W vario ND to arrive. It will be manual focus for now as I am away from my main base with all my fuji glass back there. Will be bringing this to Photokina with me and saying to Canon "why would I buy YOUR 1.8x crop mirrorless camera" GH5 just got beaten I think. All it lacks over A7 III is a way to get the full frame look with Canon lenses at the same time as AF. There needs to be a better range of adapters!

$30,000 for square-front LOMOs? I bought my square front 35mm T2.5 for 1000 euros. Ah, those were the days.

Watch these in anything but Firefox (otherwise I love that browser). Ideally, watch in chrome with the RGB dev fix 'The Lane' is great: This one is V1: The interview portion: V1 Era: (While these often reflect earlier versions, and non-standard use in some cases, they stick out in my mind as having some really neat shots. 'Always Already' is the reference example, with Firecrest NDs for Day, and ensured correct post workflow)

Isn't this some Pied Piper, middle out kind of ish?

It’s actually pretty clean but the images I shoot with it usually are radioactive.