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OK, I have a black one inbound and should be landing tomorrow or Thursday… I tried to get the LTD version but has to come from PannyBoy direct and they have zero stock, so black it is. My S9 is still not fixed and I have missed it on the first 3 jobs of the year and with 5 more imminent, can’t wait any longer. On the off chance my fixed S9 does turn up prior to these next 5 jobs I am away for, I’ll use both as a bit of a test but regardless, probably have a place more now for the L10 until an S9II comes along. My experience of not having a mech shutter has not been the greatest and the role either of these units is destined for is more photo, so…

I should have some soon @kye @PannySVHS I say ‘soon’ as in shooting, but as to getting around to being able to even look at it… Currently already in a 6 week log jam (see what I did there?) which gets longer week by week 🤪

Well stated @eatstoomuchjam @kye :- )

It allows you to operate the camera fully remotely so it is fundamentally the same thing. To be honest, if I was going to use such a thing then having a compact palmable remote is more appealing than walking around looking like I’m holding a crucifix like the Luna option. But it’s one more thing to carry so there is that. The head tracker is very smart and for people doing instructional videos it is excellent - even if it does look like you are carrying ET in a papoose when you are out and about. I guess the drawback is that it is excellent for seeing what you are seeing but falls down as a concept when doing the other 50-75% of what vloggers do which is getting their own face in reacting to what they are seeing. One issue might be trying to be discreet as you have to look at someone and ET sat there swivelling to do the same does draw more attention and gives off a mobile surveillance unit vibe. It such an eye catching feature though that I would expect DJI to be emulating it soon.

It’s arrived. Immediate observations… Each to their own and all that, but the size is perfect. Over the past near 20 years, I have only had a couple of ‘personal’ cameras starting with the GF1. I still have that one (somewhere) and last time I tried it, it felt somewhat clunky and slow. No big surprise, it is getting on a bit! X100 which is a strong contender for fave camera of all time for its time. Again, it would be terribly slow today, but SOOC, produced the best ever JPEGs of any camera I have ever owned. Not necessarily (and not actually) the sharpest or most detailed, but specially compared with high MP full-frame cameras, but just a certain ‘filmic’ magic about those 12 MP files from that sensor. Sony RX100v. A fiddly little bastard. Great video, very average at best stills. Too small. Sony ZV1. Again, a better video unit IMO, hated the stills experience. So here we are with the L10… I’ve set it up to mimic the set up of my S1Rii’s that sit above my S5ii…which sits above my S9 (that I am unlikely to see again before mid July as I head off on a near 4 week road trip in a couple of days). I still need to import any LUTS and I’ll start with my Phantom one’s for the S5ii which I currently use for the S1Rii’s also. If anyone fancies making a LUT to bake in based off the new L Classic Gold, I’d be interested 😬

These are really nice. The best is the footprint. I played around with SpektraFilm but didn't do much with it. I should try it again.

What impressed me most is how much of the effect comes from the camera work and lighting rather than expensive VFX. A lot of the unease is created by subtle motion, lens choices, and the way the footage is treated in post. When I'm trying to analyze that kind of look, I sometimes run clips through https://zimblu.co/blur-video/ just to get a better sense of the motion blur and movement they're using. Small details like that can make a scene feel surprisingly real.

🫢 But yes, even with streamlining year on year, the volume seems to keep going up and up despite (deliberately) less jobs. I’m looking at outsourcing, but I’d be looking at a 20% drop in take home income with any existing booked jobs…which would not be a good thing. There’s only really one thing to do and that is the missus will need to spend less time baking in the kitchen and start baking in LUTS and earn her keep that way…

I hadn't heard of it before. Thanks. It reminds me of when the chain store Restoration Hardware first opened up in Canada. They were buying up old patents and remaking products from 100 years ago. I would have nostalgia for these things (tools, kids toys, appliances) then realized I had never seen them before. Even my grandparents didn't have these things (Canada, before the 1980s had our own manufacturing and design of goods so typical appliances and tools that everyone had were different than the US ones that Restoration Hardware remade.) It was funny how easy it was to create an environment in a store that you would get caught up in. Good store though and unique product line. Sadly, about ten years ago though they did a redesign of the company (probably for more shareholder profit) and now it's just another Bed, Bath and Beyond knock-off. There's no reason to go there anymore.

That’ll have been Arsenal fans thinking they were going to win the Champions League. There was a similar book in the early 80s by Douglas Adams and John Lloyd called “The Meaning Of Liff” which used the names of places and assigned them with a definition of a new word. AITH (n.) The single bristle that sticks out sideways on a cheap paintbrush. BANFF Pertaining to, or descriptive of, that kind of facial expression which is impossible to achieve except when having a passport photograph taken. ELY (n.) The first, tiniest inkling you get that something, somewhere, has gone teribly wrong. etc. I have just got a new passport which has a terrible Banff that I will now have to endure for ten years.

"Old look" has a similar function to "film look". Both separates the content from reality by not being accurate. Modern camera are capable of representing the real world as it is, like they're just mirrors. But the artist wants to make a dream for the audience. You don't perceive a mirror image as a dream.

Agreed.. You've likely heard of the term "anemoia" which is from The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows which aims to come up with new words for emotions that currently lack words, and it means "Nostalgia for a time or a place one has never known". It's gaining popularity too, with that blip being April 2024...

I think a lot of people feel the world was a brighter and more optimistic place in the 90s and 2000s so it’s a way of putting their current selves back into that time. Easy to write that off simply as nostalgia but I think at this present time it’s actually a deeper thing as a coping mechanism.

I do think nostalgia, even for a time someone wasn't alive for, is a big factor. Another is authenticity, the title is telling on the comparison video. Which is "more authentic?". I think with so much fake stuff out there, or over polished, commercial media, that there's naturally a desire for something real. I know a young woman, in early 20s, who last year shot in miniDV for the nostalgia and poor quality. That surprised me because I remember when miniDV was considered high quality (compared to what low budget video makers had access to previously). Things move on. There's also trends, as the saying goes, when hemlines are down they can only go up. Now that people can do 8K pristine video easily and cheaply, then low quality and dirty is a refreshing change. About 12 years ago I was searching for, and found, a pocket camera that saved in raw. It was great and I loved how I was able to edit in post nicely, etc. This year it died and so I pulled out the old jpeg-only camera from the drawer and I've been shooting with it. Now, instead of cringing when I see the jpeg artifacts, I accept it as a normal look for a cheap snapshot and kind of a style that's now "approved" by others (at least on YouTube.) The ergonomics are great too. I can have it in my side pocket and while cycling, reach down with one hand, put my hand in the wrist strap, turn it on and take pictures without stopping. You can't do that with a phone. I sometimes wish that the amazing image stabilization and other features that iPhones have was available in a little pocket camera. Anyway, I can dig all sorts of things. It's just another brush to choose.

have you guys seen Spektrafilm? It now has an OFX plugin, and possibly an ios app on the way too, and it's free! https://spektrafilm.114c.de/

Perhaps it is the algorithms giving me content I am likely to be interested in, but none of my social media feeds give me posts where old camcorders or old digital cameras are seen as desirable from the point of view of achieving a particular look. I have heard about it, but I suspect it could be mainly in particular algorithm-created bubbles. People who are interested in serious photography and video work with good image quality tend to be given that kind of posts and so on. 🙂 There are certainly people who are fascinated by old things. I like steam engines myself, and sometimes photograph steam trains because of the visual and auditory aesthetics, although I recognize that the steam engine did gross harm to the environment, air quality, caused fires, lots of CO2 emissions etc. Despite these I really like the sound and feel of it. 🙂

That would make it perfect for my 10mm Cmount, not so perfect in regards of noise in 4K, compared to the GX85. The GX85 hack from @BTM_Pix allowed a forum member to get 200mbps HD running on the GX9. The stock HD is supposed to be very good in regards to resolution looking at the dpreview comparison tool. I am tempted to check this camera out sometime. I still love and use my GX85 btw. The 8bit 4K is indeed amazingly good for what it is and grades better than it should allowed to do in regards of spec sheet numbers. Nice results you are achieving with yours. @kye

Fascinating to say the least : ) His text and voice included ;- )

The below video titled "Retro camcorders are EASY to use in 2026 (full guide)" was posted two years ago and has 241K views. It opens with these shots: and his first line is "retro camcorders are freaking awesome". Maybe you're right that getting worse image quality isn't the primary motivator, but if it wasn't then I don't really know how to explain why anyone would be attracted to these camcorders when new/modern ones have all the same advantages of being a single-use device, have great ergonomics, novelty value, etc, but are also far easier to find, far easier to use (and don't require legacy computer interfaces!), are far more reliable, and have much better image quality. Maybe the draw is that they're old, and therefore that's the novelty, but I've heard people gush over how they love the JPEG look from cameras that have 2MP cameras and the JPGs are hugely compressed and full of artefacts etc. Here's another one comparing Hi8 vs MiniDV on the basis of the image alone.. 24K views! It might also be a nostalgia thing, where the image quality is desirable because it's poor, but in exactly the right way.

I’d have urged caution in buying the Luna before DJI released the Pro version of the Pocket 4 anyway but now the P4P has been officially released in China then I would definitely hold out for some comparisons. One of the major USPs of the Luna is the excellent removeable remote screen but it seems DJI have an interesting solution with a small external remote for the P4P. Its a bit of a swings and roundabout in that it is more convenient with the Luna but it’s equally true that if you drop the remote then it’s game over until you can locate a new one. Insta threw everyone a curveball (shills included) by releasing the Luna far earlier than expected and it’s worth considering that this was in part motivated by them discovering their major USP was about to be countered with the P4P solution. Oh and the 17 stops of dynamic range of the P4P is interesting too.

I find it difficult to believe that worse quality as such is the motivating factor, but a less polished result, a less artificially processed and perfected result may be desirable when one wishes to appear authentic and I do believe a lot of people are tired of the ultra-processed images from mobile phones and editing apps. They may also be tired of commercial images for partly similar reasons: DYI images may look more real and home-made, and somehow more true to the person in the photos, even if not captured by extended arm holding the camera but someone who truly knows the person in the picture. In some cases, commercially produced portraits which often reflect the photographer's tastes and some product or image style that the photographer has found successful and applies to all their clients. Doing it yourself for an authentic feel doesn't mean the quality of the photo has to be poor. Of course, it's possible that some people specifically want a "different" look such as 8 mm film etc. but I don't think this is common or at the core of the issue, the excessive processing and manufactured "perfection" is much more likely to be what triggers a change in fashion (or perhaps I am just wishing that). You may be correct that the smartphone generation sometimes just wants to use something other than their smartphone, that's perfectly understandable and would be a healthy development. In my mind "high quality" and "smartphone" are difficult to put in the same sentence with a straight face. High quality for some things, yes, but for a lot of things, not good quality at all.

Good points from @eatstoomuchjam. That's why I went for the sharpest frame grabs I could find - considering the range of variables involved a soft looking grab might have been a scanning issue or provenance issue or there might have just been movement in the frame. Now that I've done that analysis I'm wondering where to from here. One thing I can do is to take my S16mm emulation and scale it 50% of the size and then adjust my power grade to match the grain and halation etc, and see if that looks like a 35mm scan (it should - that's how film works!!). If so then I can proceed on that basis, but if not then I might have to get feedback and iterate again to get something appropriate. Once I've got that sorted out then I should be able to interpolate / extrapolate the parameters that needed changing and get a range of looks that vary from 8mm up towards 16 and 35mm and then beyond. At that point it'll be interesting to explore different combinations of: Film sharpness and grain Lens emulations Filtration (diffusion etc) From these I should be able to get a range of common looks, inspired by different combinations like: 8mm shot on-the-go Bolex 16mm camera shot at night The look: Faster 16mm film with mediocre prime lenses shot wide open Krasnogorsk-3 16mm camera during the day The look: Slower / clearer 16mm film with standard zoom lens (17-69mm F1.9 Zenit) shot stopped down 35mm film camera with master primes, or Cookes, or Panavision C-Series & T-Series, etc (I have a few lens tests with many of these lenses so should be able to recreate something that smells vaguely right by changing the vignetting, edge softness, CA, bloom, etc) I'd imagine that certain combinations will be more convincing than others, as we've likely come to associate certain image attributes together. Obviously I won't be recreating them faithfully, but simply by taking inspiration from these a range of looks can certainly be developed. One thing I have noticed is that lens designers often get custom requests from film-makers to tune a set of lenses to have a customised response. For example maybe they want the speed and bokeh from a set of lenses to remain as-is but want more/less horizontal streaks and much more diffusion, etc. This is noteworthy because if film-makers are are interested in different combinations of lens attributes then I don't feel like I need to try to get a perfect emulation of one lens or another either - it doesn't matter so much when you view it from a creative perspective rather than engineering perspective. This is why my goal in my S16 emulation project wasn't to emulate this or that film stock, but rather to get something that looked like it was shot on some unknown stock with unknown provenance (e.g. maybe it's expired or wasn't stored well etc).

Raw pictures taken with a OnePlus 8 pro modded, lens used: Linos Mevis 16mm F1.6

Yes, it's on my radar too. Their Discord server is where the action is if anyone wants to follow along or get involved. Sometimes there are even daily updates so it's very much still in development.

no 12 bit codec (whether it's PR444 or raw) makes it kind of DOA for me. that tended to be kinefinity's main selling point imo. conceptually its cool, but I just got a BMCC6K FF for 1500 euros second hand as a B-CAM. same sensor, same open gate capability, gives me an option to use an EVF as well, and it lets me do more in the grade.

My archive on gh2 patches 1 GOP Intra 'moon' T7 - Top Grading - Best Motion - Best Setting Ever 1-SpanMyBitchUp patch is good quality for spanning with long record times 2-AQuamotion v2 is medium-high quality with decent spanning recording times + 80% slowdown / EX TELE 3 GOP 'Spizz' - Hi-Quality - Pro Motion 3-TerrAQuake is seAQuake but less quality frame sizes for poorer type 10 cards 4-SeAQuake is Very High Quality for hi-end SD cards 6 GOP - Middle Earth 'Nebula' 7 GH2 Flow Motion v2 - 100Mbps Fast Action Performance & Reliability 8 T9-gh4 like 9 12/15 GOP 'DREWnet' T9 - Traditional Long GOP 12 https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/blop84zqvmgob2qiab07v/ACl0mBKWCsMcidxL5qUcqgA?rlkey=3gb5igu910uyw5sipalzlovp2&st=1vsslgjs&dl=0

Anybody checked out the "M-LITE"? A 3D printed modification of the EOS-M: oh snap....