Leaderboard

The GM1 is long gone, but here's the tiny a110 lens: FWIW, my wife and I made a doc 10 years ago using the GX7 and the GM1 (with a different lens). It was fun. I did use the a110 primes I have for a short film. Finally, I also have the a110 Pentax film camera and have started shooting with it just for kicks.

Sorry if I misread! I have! And it's TOO smooth for my tastes. It's very impressive, but I still want some natural handheld movement. It helps with the immersion. It's why I have never used a gimbal for the ringside action. The biggest issue with action cameras, even the new ones, is the low light just isn't great in most of these venues that don't have professional lighting rigs set up.

The LX10/LX15 is a solid little camera. The big differentiator (aside from price) over the Sony 1” cameras is the f1.4 aperture at the wide end. That comes with a couple of caveats in that it doesn’t stay f1.4 very far into the range and shooting in 4K there is a bit of a crop. It takes my cinelike-D hack and I also put a magnetic filter thread on mine that enables you to put ND on it and/or in my case a Sony 2x TC that you can quickly pop on and off to extend the range. These are some grabs from mine. The top panel is lens at it’s widest, the middle is maximum zoom and bottom is maximum zoom with the TC on. If you want to have one with a natural long zoom range on it then their other 1” from the time the TZ100 has a 10x optical zoom. Can also take the cinelile-d hack.

For fast action sports where you're moving quickly it's just not sufficient from what I've seen. If you're largely standing still I imagine it's sufficient but when you're running around a wrestling ring, not so much. My use case though is admittedly unique.

Cined just published their tests of the DJI OSMO Pocket 4P camera, with the new LOFIC sensor, and oh boy does it deliver! Highlights from their testing (of the wide camera): 16 stops at SNR=2, and 17.2 stops at SNR=1, with no internal NR (better than the Alexa 35 and any other camera they've ever tested) 10+ stops of latitude (second only to the Alexa 35) and potentially limited by the 10-bit codec and maybe not the sensor 11ms rolling shutter (not bad, and better than DGO designs) Their studio lights weren't powerful enough to clip the sensor, it has that much DR! The telephoto camera from the DJI isn't a LOFIC sensor and despite testing very well it's not at the same level of performance. The full test: https://www.cined.com/dji-osmo-pocket-4p-lab-test-rolling-shutter-dynamic-range-and-exposure-latitude/ In watching their podcast presentation they revealed a bunch of other interesting info: This is the first of these (tiny consumer) devices that isn't trying to adapt itself to the scene, so it's a "real camera" in the sense that it's not heavily processing things They mentioned they had the iPhone 17 Pro in for testing and even when it was in full manual mode, just by moving the focus point it would change the test results etc As the main DJI camera is ~20mm FOV, they had to develop a new testing setup so the bright patches of the Xyla didn't reflect from the camera onto the dim patches etc LOFIC sensors are likely to be coming into smartphones soon, as this is where the money is in the R&D Sony are working on a smaller version of a LOFIC sensor which would be suitable for smartphones and also for the telephoto camera on the DJI Also, the OG BMPCC got a mention, as they were talking about how it would be great to have such a sensor in a "real" camera body and with interchangeable lenses etc, but MFT sensor size isn't that far away from this, so that could also happen too. Panasonic went DGO and maybe would do this too.. I'm stoked for the GH8!! Just incredible, and I second the idea of fitting one of these to a body like the OG BMPCC! Images. Waveform plot for the DJI OSMO Pocket 4P 20mm wide D-Log2 ISO1600 Imatest result for the 20mm wide camera, D-Log2 at ISO1600 Latitude tests of the wide camera: The 4-stop over, which due to their lighting restrictions was still probably 1-2 stops from clipping:

It depends on the range really. A 24-70mm is definitely 3-4 primes for me but something like the Canon 35-350mm is a different animal. Leica used to do these two lenses They are referred to as MATE (Medium Angle Tri-Elmar) and WATE (Wide Angle Tri-Elmar) and are “zoom” lenses with fixed focal length stops. The MATE is stepped at 28-35-50mm and the WATE at 16-18-21mm which on their intended use (Rangefinders) were used with a specific ad on viewfinder that was so clunky it is known as the Frankenfinder. They are not fast but are compact and have focal length stops that make sense so are very much a bag of primes (and very much more useful adapted on to an EVF body). Some Panasonic fixed lens cameras (LX10 and LX100 spring to mind) emulate this by allowing you to use the zoom ring to increment to fixed focal lengths and it is a good feature especially on those with return to position on power on functionality. I *think* some of the Sony RX100 do this as well.

I suggested in the other group that Panasonic should put LOFIC sensors in their ILCsand someone went on about mythical organic sensor, which quite frankly may remain just that. Panasonic should just put LOFIC sensors in all their new cameras, and ditch Sony if it doesn't improve sensor tech enough. I would love to see an Even Smaller GX camera with a 20-50MP 1inch LOFIC sensor. The LX10 is frankly too large for most pockets.

It lets them hit attractive spec points like 3x optical zoom and 12x zoom when using the digital shenanigans. Although the 3x optical zoom is actually 3x switch as the intermediate points are digital and if you are in D-Log2 then it’s a hard switch as there is no digital zoom. I think 45mm equivalent would’ve been better from a practical point of view but 2.25x optical zoom and 9x total zoom doesn’t look as good in the marketing. Even though 20-190mm equivalent is still not too shabby ! A good practical look at the challenges around shooting with it in this video.

There are already wide converters to put on the 20mm lens. How long until someone releases one for the 60mm tele. You could sell a set of 30 / 40 / 50mm attachments. Or a tele converter to turn the 20mm lens into 60mm and then you can keep D-Log2.

I agree about it being too smooth, especially because the position of the camera isn't stabilised so there can be huge parallax movement which clashes with there being no movement in the direction of the camera at all. I raised the topic because it would be interesting to see a combination of OIS + IBIS + Super EIS where the EIS smoothes the motion rather than locking the image completely. It's much harder to get the locked stabilisation than just smoothing it and leaving some of the motion in the image, so it's definitely possible to tone it down a lot. Perhaps this topic will be what people are arguing about when the GH10 and FX5 IV and R5 mk 5 are all being released on top of each other, so we've got to leave something on the table for then!

You could add the Sony ZV-1 to the list (original version, which has lens OIS) - it's basically the same size and weight as the RX100 V but more video orientated. I own both the ZV-1 and an HX99 (which is tiny, shoots 4k up to 30p, with a pop-up EVF and a fantastic zoom range for a camera that small - helped at the long end by only having a 1/2.3″ sensor, of course). Unless you really need the zoom range or EVF, the ZV-1 shoots better video (with a mic jack too) and very nice stills. You can also get a JJC stick-on 52mm filter adaptor for it - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07GWQ6CXL (The Sony menu system will annoy you though if you're used to Panasonic cameras...)

Actually, I was making exactly the opposite point from the one you made it sound as though I was making : D when I mentioned Lumix alongside the Oly case ; ) The other point is simply that one lens isn’t necessarily the same as another ; )) While much also depends on the way the operator handles the camera, a lens with optical stabilisation can make a night-and-day difference... speaking as someone who uses glass with and without it every day on the FX series :- )

Sony RX0 is reasonably small. Not a zoom however and you might regard it as an “action cam” (albeit without stabilisation it isn’t!).

My user icon here on EOSHD is a GM1 with a tiny Pentax A110 24mm prime lens on it. Aside from using a flat-f8-body-cam-pancake-lens, this was as about as small as I ever got things. Which was pretty small!

Never tried it but I suspect the FX30 stab would be good enough for my handheld needs which are basically ‘static’. I move more and more however towards the combo of absolutely locked off or floating moving with nothing in between. Lumix are great in this regard because if you have everything dialled up to the max, albeit at the expense of some cropping, these things stay incredibly still. It’s really only if there is any static foreground that you notice any movement so wider establishing shots, I always use a tripod or something.

I bought one and ended up selling it. While the RED NE looks great, it's way to much data for what I shoot and the H265 is terrible, I can't understand how Nikon does not understand the urgency of fixing it.....

@newfoundmass@MrSMWFX30's stabilization is not necessarily bad at all... it requires a proper operator! : P Maybe @kye is serious up there, maybe not ; ) I am :- )

It's funny, I'm pretty aligned with your thoughts, just like you, I'm on the back end of my commercial life (went full time in 1993) and have always been pragmatic with gear. I want to splash out once before it's not relevant anymore! I too am shooting on the S1R2 and love the files out of it. And yes if I ever get an SL3P, the first thing is to black out, sorry stealth out the white Logo 🙂

This is a beast of a camera for sure, but man, almost $5K??? I mean, I get it, it's almost a cinema camera, but no internal ND, SDI etc.... I guess I'm just grateful you can pick up a used A7SIII for around 2K and get basically the same image at the end of the pipeline. Or even an old F5 at $1k for that matter... It's funny because I'm at the stage in my career where I can kind of choose to shoot with whatever cameras we want within reason. More often than not though, I end up going with older cameras because we get basically the same image at end of the pipeline, and they are like 10x cheaper. The budget saved can be invested into cooler on camera stuff. Spoiled for choice I guess