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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K


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4 hours ago, jonpais said:

@Yannick Willox The grade is pretty awful. I've never seen such bad skin tones with the GH5 in all my life.

With shooting with the GH5 and usual mft lenses, I noticed you have to really have to add contrast and saturation go make it work, unlike shooting with a lens like the Sigma 18-35 which immediately gives contrasty images.

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Unless a YouTuber or any kind of reviewer is an absolute expert at grading they shouldn't bother.

Otherwise we get to review their grading and not the performance of the camera.

99% of the videos out there so far on the Pocket 4K have taught me absolutely nothing about how good the image is vs the LOG shooting cameras like the GH5. What I want to see is the absolute data in the files, how much you can pull it around, the noise, the dynamic range and then with an expert grade on both to bring them as close together as possible, what inherent advantages in colour science do we see from the Blackmagic codec vs the others.

Of course if Blackmagic had been paying attention to EOSHD for the past 4 years, they'd have realised that I would have done all that out of my own enthusiasm and free time for this camera, and their customers would probably be very happy to see how it does performance wise, but instead we have a load of hacks and PR stunts with the camera. It's sad to see.

My friendly advice to Blackmagic, with beer in hand, healthy respect and no personal grudge is simply this...

- Quit the long lead-time situation from NAB to shipping. It's infuriating to be teased. Do the marketing from the moment you have the camera finished and manufactured in large quantities and not a moment earlier.

- Quit sending 10's to 100's of demo units out as seeds on social media. Let your early adopting customers be the first to put the tests up. We can trust these. We don't trust the shills. If you need great looking films and material to show off the camera, you can do a lot better than looking at YouTube and Instagram subscriber numbers. There are actual top-flight Hollywood cinematographers who are interested in small cameras and a host of big names who take a natural curiosity in new gear, without being marketing shills and without the need to be paid-up or foisted a camera upon. Let their natural enthusiasm get the better of them and at least one of them will shoot.

- Put an articulated screen and an EVF on the next model. There are $400 cameras with these.

- Keep up the good work on Resolve and the codec side - it is superb.

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41 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Unless a YouTuber or any kind of reviewer is an absolute expert at grading they shouldn't bother.

Otherwise we get to review their grading and not the performance of the camera.

If the footage I’ve seen so far is badly graded by people who don’t know what they’re doing then I’m delighted. I can’t grade like an expert either so it proves even I have hope of achieving a decent image.

Expert (often cynically defined as someone who has been doing it badly for a long time) and professional quality stuff isn’t too important for people like me as it’s always going to be out of reach...

But I take your point!

 

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What I'd like to see is a review from two cynical Northerners.

Possibly shot in London so that they are additionally disgruntled by the lack of gravy for the chips on their plate and the ones on their shoulders.

Maybe sometime like a week on Wednesday.

Around 11.30 for 12.

I'd be interested in seeing that one.

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49 minutes ago, Snowfun said:

If the footage I’ve seen so far is badly graded by people who don’t know what they’re doing then I’m delighted. I can’t grade like an expert either so it proves even I have hope of achieving a decent image.

Expert (often cynically defined as someone who has been doing it badly for a long time) and professional quality stuff isn’t too important for people like me as it’s always going to be out of reach...

But I take your point!

@Andrew Reid is right - badly graded images tell us nothing.

If we see a bad grade, how can we tell the difference between it being a great camera and bad colourist, or a flawed camera that the colourist wasn't skilled enough to correct, or a broken camera that no-one could get a good image out of even if given years to do so?  The answer is that we can't.

Unfortunately, when you give a camera to a pro and get a great image back, you may be seeing the result of a camera that is really easy to work with and a very simple but effective grade, or you might be seeing a camera that takes skill to work with and the results of an experienced colourist, you can't tell.  However, at least you can tell that the camera isn't fundamentally flawed.

I find Philip Blooms camera tests very revealing both in what they show and what they don't show.  He shows what works with the camera, and to be fair, he normally does stress test them a bit.  But every now and then he'll release something like his iPhone 120fps video which makes the iPhone look like a wonderful camera until you realise that every shot (almost without exception) is pointing into the sun.  What's the moral of that story?  The 120fps mode needs a metric shitload of light, especially in 120p when exposure times are so short.  Its an omission, but it's one that is noticeable if you pay attention.

As Andrew said, only a skilled grader or the RAW files are of any use.

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1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Unless a YouTuber or any kind of reviewer is an absolute expert at grading they shouldn't bother.

Otherwise we get to review their grading and not the performance of the camera.

99% of the videos out there so far on the Pocket 4K have taught me absolutely nothing about how good the image is vs the LOG shooting cameras like the GH5. What I want to see is the absolute data in the files, how much you can pull it around, the noise, the dynamic range and then with an expert grade on both to bring them as close together as possible, what inherent advantages in colour science do we see from the Blackmagic codec vs the others.

This. 

No camera is ever done justice by click bait hungry Youtube vids (where the priority is to get views rather than providing great content). Never judge by what you see on the Youtubes, and put your curiosity into renting the camera and using it for yourself. 

While there's people pointing a finger at Blackmagic, the big boys put out the most dismal, boring and often unflattering "launch videos" you're ever bound to see. What happens in the creative process?? - "Hey - we've got a $10k camera to sell here. Let's shoot some trees, houses and people walking around. Throw on that Yoga music you like." 

I have no doubt the BMPCC4k has a beautiful image - just that the poor battery life scares the crap out of me! 

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59 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Unless a YouTuber or any kind of reviewer is an absolute expert at grading they shouldn't bother.

 

LOL Indeed... : -)

 

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

(...)

Of course if Blackmagic had been paying attention to EOSHD for the past 4 years, they'd have realised that I would have done all that out of my own enthusiasm and free time for this camera, and their customers would probably be very happy to see how it does performance wise, but instead we have a load of hacks and PR stunts with the camera. It's sad to see.

 

Thumbs up! : -)

 

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

(...)

We don't trust the shills.

Who does? ; )

 

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

- Quit sending 10's to 100's of demo units out as seeds on social media. Let your early adopting customers be the first to put the tests up. We can trust these. We don't trust the shills. If you need great looking films and material to show off the camera, you can do a lot better than looking at YouTube and Instagram subscriber numbers. There are actual top-flight Hollywood cinematographers who are interested in small cameras and a host of big names who take a natural curiosity in new gear, without being marketing shills and without the need to be paid-up or foisted a camera upon. Let their natural enthusiasm get the better of them and at least one of them will shoot.

They don't support nor award any enthusiasm outside their bubble. This is not a good selling point. Other than that, BRAW effectively is -- a bit from where their arrogance comes to be honest from my own experience : -)

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2 hours ago, Snowfun said:

If the footage I’ve seen so far is badly graded by people who don’t know what they’re doing then I’m delighted. I can’t grade like an expert either so it proves even I have hope of achieving a decent image.

It's very easy footage to grade thanks to the new color science.

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1 hour ago, AaronChicago said:

Here is a 3:1 compressed cDNG file straight from the pocket 4k. I believe that you can only open it in Resolve.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f1yfi1iz0f9xmco/A002_10091348_C019_000024.dng?dl=0

 

Thank you, the sample DNG already contains high cliping, left down in those lights, any manipulation with ISO will no longer help with this overexposure.

The dynamic range is definitely worse than the old pocket and, unfortunately, the colors, I have been doing a lot of adjusting DNG and ProRes from my old pocket for a long time so I know what it can do. that color noise in the shadows is unpleasant.

 The colors are much worse than the old pocket! it helped me in that I definitely will not sell the old pocket ?  Thank you.

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4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

What I'd like to see is a review from two cynical Northerners.

Possibly shot in London so that they are additionally disgruntled by the lack of gravy for the chips on their plate and the ones on their shoulders.

Maybe sometime like a week on Wednesday.

Around 11.30 for 12.

I'd be interested in seeing that one.

Are we going to -remotely- see any of these?! 

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1 hour ago, AaronChicago said:

I completely disagree but glad it could be helpful.

only saturation and contrast added. Colors have better old pocked for me, NEW pocket is redly and yellowish. (very similar colors has GH5s)  this combination of highlighted red and yellow brings together a special green color that shines, I see it in every video of BMP4K ?

GH5 does not have this highlighted red and yellow.

Sample is here https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1OBln90sErh83QseO4ys3omnXQEoLIU9B  they are not my sample. 

they are from here: https://youtu.be/SQ9OzlZfIds

first: NEW Pocket, second: Old Pocket  (added sharpness strong 1.5  for comparison with the 4K resolution on NEW pocket)

New 4K pocket.png

Old Pocket.png

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2 hours ago, tonysss said:

Thank you, the sample DNG already contains high cliping, left down in those lights, any manipulation with ISO will no longer help with this overexposure.

The dynamic range is definitely worse than the old pocket and, unfortunately, the colors, I have been doing a lot of adjusting DNG and ProRes from my old pocket for a long time so I know what it can do. that color noise in the shadows is unpleasant.

 The colors are much worse than the old pocket! it helped me in that I definitely will not sell the old pocket ?  Thank you.

Agreed. I haven’t seen any RAW from the P4K that looks better than even the 1080p ProRes from the old pocket. ?

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