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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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From the zoom in the pictures, it seems that the BMPCC4K has actually more resolution than the GH5S. The perceptible difference that leads us to think the opposite is due to the sharpening process in the GH5S that is not applied in the BMPCC4K. 

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1 hour ago, wyrlyn said:

what a terrible resolution at 120 fps. I honestly can't get why an awesome hardware intensive codec packed cam cannot do BETTER (less crop and blurry) res at 120 fps. It is not a slow-mo cam I know (and also I don't really like the slow mo hype around) but seriously, it is useless.

The crop is defined by the scan speed of the sensor.    120 fps means a frame every 8.33 milliseconds.  If the entire sensor cant be scanned in that amount of time then full sensor readout 120 fps is physically impossible.  The two options then are either to line skip the whole sensor or to do a full readout of a smaller proportion of the sensor.   The pocket4k has clearly opted for the latter.   I doubt the GH5 or GH5s have readout speeds of less than 8.33 milliseconds so if they have full sensor 120 fps then it is probably line skipped.

I cannot, for the life of me, think why someone would need a 120 fps slow motion shot of a still detailed wide city-scape like that in which 60fps wasn't adequate.   If you are doing 120 fps slow motion it is usually of something that is moving and thus detail is less important.   If detail is really important then simply play 60 fps at half speed.  In sports broadcasts they often achieve the slow motion by playing each frame about 3 times, and that looks smooth enough.   The original pocket didn't even have 60fps.  To me it just seems a silly ask to expect 4k detail 120fps full mft sensor from a camera of this price.

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11 minutes ago, Slothorp said:

From the zoom in the pictures, it seems that the BMPCC4K has actually more resolution than the GH5S. The perceptible difference that leads us to think the opposite is due to the sharpening process in the GH5S that is not applied in the BMPCC4K. 

Looks pretty good to me. And this is Twice as fast as the PK4 can even do.

 

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I agree that the GH5S is an excellent video camera, but for my needs, it seems that I rather prefer the P4K, especially for the money, and the Resolve license.

I repeat the fact that the price of the GH5S in Southern EU is almost double, and I do not care at all about its photo side.

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6 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I agree that the GH5S is an excellent video camera, but for my needs, it seems that I rather prefer the P4K, especially for the money, and the Resolve license.

I repeat the fact that the price of the GH5S in Southern EU is almost double, and I do not care at all about its photo side.

Oh I can't deny that. But if a person is trying to made money at doing this stuff I don't see how anyone can buy a PK4 over a GH5, GH5s. The PK4 is just going to be too damn slow, clunky, fussy to use on paid gigs.

And you sure as Hell are not taking pictures on the PK4.

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Just now, webrunner5 said:

Oh I can't deny that. But if a person is trying to made money at doing this stuff I don't see how anyone can buy a PK4 over a GH5, GH5s.

Better video quality, way better DR and no sharpening.
For non-narrative work the GH5s is fine.

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20 minutes ago, Slothorp said:

From the zoom in the pictures, it seems that the BMPCC4K has actually more resolution than the GH5S. The perceptible difference that leads us to think the opposite is due to the sharpening process in the GH5S that is not applied in the BMPCC4K. 

You are right.  Looking at that Budapest clip the Pocket4k has more detail, but its smooth detail.  Look at the straight lines on the plynth of the column.   The GH5s has jaggies on straight lines.  It's false detail that is giving the overal impression of sharpness.   So this clip actually shows that the pocket is BETTER in 120 fps.    The only flaw is the moire on that guys shirt that is when zoomed in which is actually there because of the extra detail and is only really visible zoomed in.

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9 minutes ago, deezid said:

Better video quality, way better DR and no sharpening.
 

And in what situation do you plan to be able to do that making money? Taking video of flowers in your back yard on a tripod? With no continuous AF you aren't do Doc, Corporate interview stuff, no fast moving stuff. Not unless you have a 7mm lens set to infinity at f16 and everyone looks like little piss ants LoL.

5 minutes ago, MattH said:

You are right.  Looking at that Budapest clip the Pocket4k has more detail, but its smooth detail.  Look at the straight lines on the plynth of the column.   The GH5s has jaggies on straight lines.  It's false detail that is giving the overal impression of sharpness.   So this clip actually shows that the pocket is BETTER in 120 fps.    The only flaw is the moire on that guys shirt that is when zoomed in which is actually there because of the extra detail and is only really visible zoomed in.

You are looking at ONE pretty piss poor video comparison. Hardly definitive evidence.

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5 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

 

You are looking at ONE pretty piss poor video comparison. Hardly definitive evidence.

It doesn't matter.  Its half the price.   My comment is simply refuting the claim that the 120fps on the GH5s is better.  They both seem fine to me for what 120 fps is worth.

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2 minutes ago, MattH said:

It doesn't matter.  Its half the price.   My comment is simply refuting the claim that the 120fps on the GH5s is better.    They both seem fine to me for what 120 fps is worth.

No it isn't the same, the PK4 has a HELL of a crop. What you going to buy a 4mm lens to shot with it at wide angle? It is pretty much useless for wide angle stuff. Wide angle is in, at least this month LoL. I think it really is Only usable up to 100fps which isn't bad, but the GH5s does 192 with no crop. Big difference if you are into super slo mo. And if you are trying to make money to do this you may be asked to do slo mo from hell.

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3 hours ago, deezid said:

True, most people are like: Yh let's ignore that great shadow dr and blow out some high lights instead... 😄

Would either of you elaborate on what is the correct way to expose this camera - is it a matter of correctly exposing rather than going by the ETTR method that folks have traditional done with Blackmagic cameras to avoid noise

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1 minute ago, webrunner5 said:

And in what situation do you plan to be able to do that making money? Taking video of flowers in your back yard on a tripod? With no continuous AF you aren't do Doc, Corporate interview stuff, no fast moving stuff. Not unless you have a 7mm lens set to infinity and everyone looks like little piss ants LoL.

You are looking a ONE pretty piss poor video comparison. Hardly definitive evidence.

Ever heard of follow focus? Also GH5(s) continuous AF will destroy your footage unless you're using a 7mm lens with a closed aperture.

The GH5s has horrible sharpening artifacts at -5 sharpening and horizontal pattern noise even appearing in shadows at base ISO. Way lower dynamic range also.

Advantages over the P4K are like 3 times better battery life, flip screen (but smaller) and Ibis using the GH5. I prefer image quality though.

 

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1 minute ago, webrunner5 said:

No it isn't the same, the PK4 has a HELL of a crop.

The GH5s 120p is clearly line skipped.  Evidenced by the jaggies.  That's how it avoids cropping.    A crop at 120fps when you are getting smooth details is really spoilt rich man problems.

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4 minutes ago, emhoward said:

Would either of you elaborate on what is the correct way to expose this camera - is it a matter of correctly exposing rather than going by the ETTR method that folks have traditional done with Blackmagic cameras to avoid noise

Ettr doesn't mean blowing highlights out though. Even doing ETTR on the GH5 to maximize dynamic range with great results. But when I can I center the histogram/waveform to make better use of the baked in gamma curve - which is irrelevant on raw though 

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24 minutes ago, MattH said:

It doesn't matter.  Its half the price.  

There is a reason it is Half the price. It has Half the the features of a GH5, GH5s. I bet, even on here, half the people that buy a PK4 will have it for sale in the Sub Section in less than 3 months. You are going to have 3 thousand dollars or more tied up in one to make it really work. Right out of the box it is pretty useless for a modern camera today.

And don't give me the ProRes crap. I can buy a 200 dollar Ninja Star and get ProRes on any camera that has a clean HDMI out..

I bet most people on here had the BMPCC at one time and got rid of it. Sure it was a fabulous camera output wise. But it was a Total pain in the ass to use. And the PK4 is not going to be much different. How many people Still have a BMPCC on here. Damn few I bet, and if they do have it they use it less and less.

Hey no doubt it is going to have great output if you are good at getting it and can grade well. But that is not going to be a speed demon at doing it. I just find it would work for me, but I just don't see it fitting into most peoples workflow. More of a toy to be honest for most. But nothing wrong with that. I would imagine we all have plenty of toys among us.

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14 minutes ago, deezid said:

Ettr doesn't mean blowing highlights out though. Even doing ETTR on the GH5 to maximize dynamic range with great results. But when I can I center the histogram/waveform to make better use of the baked in gamma curve - which is irrelevant on raw though 

Yes!  In fact Ettr literally means not blowing the highlights.  It means exposing as far to the right on the histogram as you can without blowing highlights. (not counting things you choose to blow).  It's only really aplicable in raw though.

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8 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

There is a reason it is Half the price. It has Half the the features of a GH5, GH5s. I bet, even on here, half the people that buy a PK4 will have it for sale in the Sub Section in less than 3 months. You are going to have 3 thousand dollars or more tied up in one to make it really work. Right out of the box it is pretty useless for a modern camera today.

And don't give me the ProRes crap. I can buy a 200 dollar Ninja Star and get ProRes on any camera that has a clean HDMI out..

I bet most people on here had the BMPCC at one time and got rid of it. Sure it was a fabulous camera output wise. But it was a Total pain in the ass to use. And the PK4 is not going to be much different. How many people Still have a BMPCC on here. Damn few I bet, and if they do have it they use it less and less.

Thing is Webrunner, its a video camera, first. Then theres braw.  Most people who go for it should/would be for the codecs and better than the hybrids video.  It doesn’t compete with the GH5/s as a hybrid camera, it can’t.  Its a video camera.

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