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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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13 minutes ago, Yannick Willox said:

This seems like quite an honest review. All the cons are mentioned, and then you have the image quality & price point.

We already discussed this comparison several pages earlier. This video favors the BMPCC4K in every scenario: poor grade on the GH5 in skintone example, dynamic range comparison while the GH5 is rolling in it's natural PP, BM on gimbal vs GH5 in handheld... It a joke.

 

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19 minutes ago, Yannick Willox said:

This seems like quite an honest review. All the cons are mentioned, and then you have the image quality & price point.

We already saw this garbage video, which, as @Deadcode rightfully observes, is incompetent and clearly favors the P4K (though the grading of both sucks ass).

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On 10/12/2018 at 4:21 AM, jonpais said:

How hard can it be to at least make a small effort to try to match the shots from the two cameras? The one on the bottom is from the video, the one on the top a two-second color correction. In the video, I'd almost say they tried their hardest to make the GH5 look ghastly. No wonder what they saw were thin skin tones with little to no gradation. Even checking the vector scope, it's plain to see that their grade is far too magenta.

Screen Shot 2018-10-12 at 4.17.52 AM.png

Screen Shot 2018-10-12 at 4.18.05 AM.png

@Yannick Willox The grade is pretty awful. I've never seen such bad skin tones with the GH5 in all my life.

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24 minutes ago, Yannick Willox said:

The positive I take from this vid then is even with awful grading, the P4K looks much better. Your two second grade does help, but it still makes the GH5 look quite bad IMO. She still needs to go and see a physician.

The image from the BMPCC4K is superior to GH5, but not this much. It's awesome if you just put a REC709 LUT to BMD Film how good the results are. But it does not require advanced grading skills to make the GH5 image look good. 

This is my problem with Wofcrow's Alexa comparison too. We can see REC709 LUT's side by side. But what happens if you want to match the GH5 and BM's image to Alexa? Is it possible? (Yes...) how hard is it? . Can the cheap cameras keep up? (in some cases, yes). 

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Today I was shooting in the vineyard with GH5 and I took the old pocket, and I have to admit bmpcc surprised me again with better color and at least +2 feet of dynamic range extra. I noticed that I use a lot more pictures in my pocket camera. Only add saturation and contrast and it's there. In new pocket I see less DRs and a worse transition of highlights to clipping and of course  colors are different and worse for me... the old pocket remains a loyal partner of my GH5 for beautiful B-roll or more cinematic work. Of course, working with old pocket needs more time and patience 🙂

Snímek obrazovky 2018-10-19 v 13.04.51.png

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4 minutes ago, tonysss said:

Today I was shooting in the vineyard with GH5 and I took the old pocket, and I have to admit bmpcc surprised me again with better color and at least +2 feet of dynamic range extra.🙂

Snímek obrazovky 2018-10-19 v 13.04.51.png

+2 extra feet of dynamic range is impressive! :) 

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1 hour ago, tonysss said:

Today I was shooting in the vineyard with GH5 and I took the old pocket, and I have to admit bmpcc surprised me again with better color and at least +2 feet of dynamic range extra. I noticed that I use a lot more pictures in my pocket camera. Only add saturation and contrast and it's there. In new pocket I see less DRs and a worse transition of highlights to clipping and of course  colors are different and worse for me... the old pocket remains a loyal partner of my GH5 for beautiful B-roll or more cinematic work. Of course, working with old pocket needs more time and patience :)

From what I understand it took a number of firmware updates to get the BMPCC to where it is now.  I'd imagine the newer one will be the same?

If so, just think about it like you're buying a software subscription with free upgrades :)

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9 hours ago, shooter said:

 

No, where are you now? Australia? The neighbor New Zealand? Okay....

 

9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Guilty as charged. Clearly I'm an undercover BMD operative. 

 

David is surely a reputable voice not connected with BMD as much as RED : D or any other manufacturer. I see him as brand agnostic as me, I guess : )

I don't believe shills are coming here, not BMD type, I think. My beef with them is just related to business policies and their obsession with broadcast market. Even though, they struggle to move on. Just not as quick as a few people, myself included, would like. I am their supporter from day one. I believe and know they could care about us outside better than they actually do. Too stuck on their organization chain. It is necessary to listen everyone. That's what I'd much appreciate to see from their own : -)

Even because there's no other Pocket 4K out there. With RAW acquisition as for instance amongst other Goodies?! Where...? ; -)

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4 hours ago, jonpais said:

@Yannick Willox The grade is pretty awful. I've never seen such bad skin tones with the GH5 in all my life.

With shooting with the GH5 and usual mft lenses, I noticed you have to really have to add contrast and saturation go make it work, unlike shooting with a lens like the Sigma 18-35 which immediately gives contrasty images.

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Unless a YouTuber or any kind of reviewer is an absolute expert at grading they shouldn't bother.

Otherwise we get to review their grading and not the performance of the camera.

99% of the videos out there so far on the Pocket 4K have taught me absolutely nothing about how good the image is vs the LOG shooting cameras like the GH5. What I want to see is the absolute data in the files, how much you can pull it around, the noise, the dynamic range and then with an expert grade on both to bring them as close together as possible, what inherent advantages in colour science do we see from the Blackmagic codec vs the others.

Of course if Blackmagic had been paying attention to EOSHD for the past 4 years, they'd have realised that I would have done all that out of my own enthusiasm and free time for this camera, and their customers would probably be very happy to see how it does performance wise, but instead we have a load of hacks and PR stunts with the camera. It's sad to see.

My friendly advice to Blackmagic, with beer in hand, healthy respect and no personal grudge is simply this...

- Quit the long lead-time situation from NAB to shipping. It's infuriating to be teased. Do the marketing from the moment you have the camera finished and manufactured in large quantities and not a moment earlier.

- Quit sending 10's to 100's of demo units out as seeds on social media. Let your early adopting customers be the first to put the tests up. We can trust these. We don't trust the shills. If you need great looking films and material to show off the camera, you can do a lot better than looking at YouTube and Instagram subscriber numbers. There are actual top-flight Hollywood cinematographers who are interested in small cameras and a host of big names who take a natural curiosity in new gear, without being marketing shills and without the need to be paid-up or foisted a camera upon. Let their natural enthusiasm get the better of them and at least one of them will shoot.

- Put an articulated screen and an EVF on the next model. There are $400 cameras with these.

- Keep up the good work on Resolve and the codec side - it is superb.

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41 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Unless a YouTuber or any kind of reviewer is an absolute expert at grading they shouldn't bother.

Otherwise we get to review their grading and not the performance of the camera.

If the footage I’ve seen so far is badly graded by people who don’t know what they’re doing then I’m delighted. I can’t grade like an expert either so it proves even I have hope of achieving a decent image.

Expert (often cynically defined as someone who has been doing it badly for a long time) and professional quality stuff isn’t too important for people like me as it’s always going to be out of reach...

But I take your point!

 

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What I'd like to see is a review from two cynical Northerners.

Possibly shot in London so that they are additionally disgruntled by the lack of gravy for the chips on their plate and the ones on their shoulders.

Maybe sometime like a week on Wednesday.

Around 11.30 for 12.

I'd be interested in seeing that one.

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49 minutes ago, Snowfun said:

If the footage I’ve seen so far is badly graded by people who don’t know what they’re doing then I’m delighted. I can’t grade like an expert either so it proves even I have hope of achieving a decent image.

Expert (often cynically defined as someone who has been doing it badly for a long time) and professional quality stuff isn’t too important for people like me as it’s always going to be out of reach...

But I take your point!

@Andrew Reid is right - badly graded images tell us nothing.

If we see a bad grade, how can we tell the difference between it being a great camera and bad colourist, or a flawed camera that the colourist wasn't skilled enough to correct, or a broken camera that no-one could get a good image out of even if given years to do so?  The answer is that we can't.

Unfortunately, when you give a camera to a pro and get a great image back, you may be seeing the result of a camera that is really easy to work with and a very simple but effective grade, or you might be seeing a camera that takes skill to work with and the results of an experienced colourist, you can't tell.  However, at least you can tell that the camera isn't fundamentally flawed.

I find Philip Blooms camera tests very revealing both in what they show and what they don't show.  He shows what works with the camera, and to be fair, he normally does stress test them a bit.  But every now and then he'll release something like his iPhone 120fps video which makes the iPhone look like a wonderful camera until you realise that every shot (almost without exception) is pointing into the sun.  What's the moral of that story?  The 120fps mode needs a metric shitload of light, especially in 120p when exposure times are so short.  Its an omission, but it's one that is noticeable if you pay attention.

As Andrew said, only a skilled grader or the RAW files are of any use.

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1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Unless a YouTuber or any kind of reviewer is an absolute expert at grading they shouldn't bother.

Otherwise we get to review their grading and not the performance of the camera.

99% of the videos out there so far on the Pocket 4K have taught me absolutely nothing about how good the image is vs the LOG shooting cameras like the GH5. What I want to see is the absolute data in the files, how much you can pull it around, the noise, the dynamic range and then with an expert grade on both to bring them as close together as possible, what inherent advantages in colour science do we see from the Blackmagic codec vs the others.

This. 

No camera is ever done justice by click bait hungry Youtube vids (where the priority is to get views rather than providing great content). Never judge by what you see on the Youtubes, and put your curiosity into renting the camera and using it for yourself. 

While there's people pointing a finger at Blackmagic, the big boys put out the most dismal, boring and often unflattering "launch videos" you're ever bound to see. What happens in the creative process?? - "Hey - we've got a $10k camera to sell here. Let's shoot some trees, houses and people walking around. Throw on that Yoga music you like." 

I have no doubt the BMPCC4k has a beautiful image - just that the poor battery life scares the crap out of me! 

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59 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Unless a YouTuber or any kind of reviewer is an absolute expert at grading they shouldn't bother.

 

LOL Indeed... : -)

 

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

(...)

Of course if Blackmagic had been paying attention to EOSHD for the past 4 years, they'd have realised that I would have done all that out of my own enthusiasm and free time for this camera, and their customers would probably be very happy to see how it does performance wise, but instead we have a load of hacks and PR stunts with the camera. It's sad to see.

 

Thumbs up! : -)

 

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

(...)

We don't trust the shills.

Who does? ; )

 

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

- Quit sending 10's to 100's of demo units out as seeds on social media. Let your early adopting customers be the first to put the tests up. We can trust these. We don't trust the shills. If you need great looking films and material to show off the camera, you can do a lot better than looking at YouTube and Instagram subscriber numbers. There are actual top-flight Hollywood cinematographers who are interested in small cameras and a host of big names who take a natural curiosity in new gear, without being marketing shills and without the need to be paid-up or foisted a camera upon. Let their natural enthusiasm get the better of them and at least one of them will shoot.

They don't support nor award any enthusiasm outside their bubble. This is not a good selling point. Other than that, BRAW effectively is -- a bit from where their arrogance comes to be honest from my own experience : -)

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