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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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30 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Whilst I don't disagree at all with the overall point you're making, I think it is fair to point out that Blackmagic do actually show it in a numerous scenarios in their marketing that would fit into that sort of use, at least in the way they are representing the cameras being used by the operators.

Although the detail in the equipment used section for each scenarios belies those illustrations, which is a bit misleading as well. 

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/workflow

While the P4K/P6K *could* be used in the situations they show in those ads, I am not sure that I would chose the P4K/P6K cameras for those settings. As I have said many times, I love the P4K & P6K cameras and the options they provide. But, in a rapidly moving run/gun situation, I have found them challenging to work with. The one-touch AF is slow (at best) and the battery life is poor (unless you use an external NP or v-mount). Perhaps your @BTM_Pix AF solution will help in this area. If I have time to set up and can use sticks, give me the P4K/P6K every time. If I have to go handheld or move fast, I generally take something else (GH5/GH5s, etc.).

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7 minutes ago, drm said:

While the P4K/P6K *could* be used in the situations they show in those ads, I am not sure that I would chose the P4K/P6K cameras for those settings. As I have said many times, I love the P4K & P6K cameras and the options they provide. But, in a rapidly moving run/gun situation, I have found them challenging to work with. The one-touch AF is slow (at best) and the battery life is poor (unless you use an external NP or v-mount). Perhaps your @BTM_Pix AF solution will help in this area. If I have time to set up and can use sticks, give me the P4K/P6K every time. If I have to go handheld or move fast, I generally take something else (GH5/GH5s, etc.).

I think they can be used in the scenarios they are showing, but only with the supporting gear they list rather than in the way they actually illustrate the operators doing it ;) 

Whilst the AF solution is quite a few months away, my small hardware interface to use the Tilta Nucleus Nano focus controller with the electronic lenses (as well as the software route via our app) isn't.

Without blowing my own trumpet unduly, it makes a pretty significant difference to manual focusing control with native lenses and can offer some mitigation operationally for not having an AF system worth the name.

No wires, no motors and no additional powering also makes it a lot more friendly for smaller configurations.

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16 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I think they can be used in the scenarios they are showing, but only with the supporting gear they list rather than in the way they actually illustrate the operators doing it ;) 

I agree with you. The camera can work well in most environments with some accessories.

I work a lot of live events where I only get one shot and there are no retakes. I frequently use the P4K/P6K cameras on a shoulder rig, with a big battery and a follow focus. In that environment, they work well. I am still sorting the straight out of camera colors for our live broadcasts, but I am fairly happy with this setup.

I am not really happy with the camera when I have to use the camera handheld in a rapidly changing environment. I guess it just comes down to the effort needed to get great footage. Sometimes grabbing an S1H, GH5, or an A7III is going to give you more usable footage. Different cameras for different jobs :)

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2 hours ago, tonysss said:

This is problem also on URSA 4.6 ? (red cliping?)

Some LED lights can produce colors that are beyond the range of many sensors. The camera sensor or image pipeline may clip those colors. Different cameras are sensitive to different lights. The Panasonic cameras (S1, etc.) have problems with blue LED light. My old JVC LS300 cameras would freak out when a LED in the blue & purple range was in the frame (think weddings). Some of the BM cameras are sensitive to clipping in the red channel. If you shoot raw, a color space transform can usually fix this problem. Hopefully, BM pays attention and works on the red issues in the next version of their color science. Have you checked the BM forums for people talking about particular BM cams and this issue?

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11 hours ago, IncriminatingPictures said:

I’m curious about the folks “taking away points” from the BMPCC4k for not being a run and gun camera. I’m not sure I saw marketing that claimed it was one. So while I’m sure some people find that input and insight important when choosing a camera, I still find it odd that some use it as a metric to claim the camera is “less usable”

i dont think i'm taking points away from the bmp4k, rather consider it as user feedback and mostly i'm pretty happy with it,  just in case there was any doubt out there. I certainly never said it was or wasn't run and gun. My style isnt running and gunning, actually my style doesn't include any running at all if i'm honest 😉. A lot of machines are heading towards multiple use, dual purpose functionality, take smartphones for example, heck even a fridge can connect to the internet these days. I reckon the first camera company or even upstart company that loads up on features in one model will clean up. They may sell less models but they will sell more of one kind. As they say, build it and they will come.

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8 hours ago, leslie said:

A lot of machines are heading towards multiple use, dual purpose functionality, take smartphones for example, heck even a fridge can connect to the internet these days. 

Well, I suppose that by the time you rig up many of these cameras with a full cine setup they're quite large, so maybe someone releasing a fridge into the cinema camera market might not be too out of place, but they'd be completely stupid to imply a hand-held run-n-gun in their promotional materials!!

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34 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

The advantage of modern fridges for run and gun film making are that many of them do actually have e-ND built in to them.

 

Don't remind me of those kind of solutions!

B+W or PolarPro for vND? Or something else? What do you guys think?

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13 hours ago, kye said:

Well, I suppose that by the time you rig up many of these cameras with a full cine setup they're quite large, so maybe someone releasing a fridge into the cinema camera market might not be too out of place, but they'd be completely stupid to imply a hand-held run-n-gun in their promotional materials!!

er.. i was thinking more along the lines of integrated gps, internal nd, folding tilting screens, vlogging and stills, all the little things that different companies supply individually in different models, but not as one complete unit. However i'm not interested in hacking a phone and cine camera together. i see a lot issues with anyone getting any sort of production done if their checking their instragram account every two minutes 

13 hours ago, kye said:

Well, I suppose that by the time you rig up many of these cameras with a full cine setup they're quite large, so maybe someone releasing a fridge into the cinema camera market might not be too out of place, but they'd be completely stupid to imply a hand-held run-n-gun in their promotional materials!!

 i dunno, btm_pix should be able to motorize it, hang a  jib of the top of it and you'd bet set and a coldie close at hand, whats not to like ?😎

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3 minutes ago, leslie said:

er.. i was thinking more along the lines of integrated gps, internal nd, folding tilting screens, vlogging and stills, all the little things that different companies supply individually in different models, but not as one complete unit. However i'm not interested in hacking a phone and cine camera together. i see a lot issues with anyone getting any sort of production done if their checking their instragram account every two minutes 

You're right that it would be great if a manufacturer combined all the best bits.  In my mind the GH5 was pretty close to this, apart from the AF people really don't complain about it in any major way, and even then the AF isn't so bad.

I'd suggest that you re-think how you look at Instagram influencers though:

  • they create original art and publish it on a daily basis (or more frequently)
  • they are interacting with their audience, essentially having a conversation about the art form or about the content / concepts it depicts
  • many of them are deriving an income from their art, and some derive their entire livelihood from this

Yes, many of them are just attractive millennials living off product placement, but the vast majority of professional artists are catering to the whims of big brands and the superficialities of the public, so if we simply dismiss them as brand shills then we're also condemning most product, fashion, and lifestyle photographers and videographers, modelling agencies, photo and video re-touching houses, and advertising agencies, which is a very large chunk of the entire industry!

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Just now, kye said:

You're right that it would be great if a manufacturer combined all the best bits.  In my mind the GH5 was pretty close to this, apart from the AF people really don't complain about it in any major way, and even then the AF isn't so bad.

I'd suggest that you re-think how you look at Instagram influencers though:

  • they create original art and publish it on a daily basis (or more frequently)
  • they are interacting with their audience, essentially having a conversation about the art form or about the content / concepts it depicts
  • many of them are deriving an income from their art, and some derive their entire livelihood from this

Yes, many of them are just attractive millennials living off product placement, but the vast majority of professional artists are catering to the whims of big brands and the superficialities of the public, so if we simply dismiss them as brand shills then we're also condemning most product, fashion, and lifestyle photographers and videographers, modelling agencies, photo and video re-touching houses, and advertising agencies, which is a very large chunk of the entire industry!

i may not have explained myself properly. Personally i have nothing against instagram influencers, my issue, is people being paid to do a job then spend the next 8 hours checking their social status every two mins. i dont see that as productive. People might argue that its boosts morale and their more happy and productive but thats a load of crap.  

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1 hour ago, leslie said:

i may not have explained myself properly. Personally i have nothing against instagram influencers, my issue, is people being paid to do a job then spend the next 8 hours checking their social status every two mins. i dont see that as productive. People might argue that its boosts morale and their more happy and productive but thats a load of crap.  

Yeah you don't need to check your account every two minutes to be active on instagram. 

I really try not to check my social media much while on the job or even out with friends. 

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Hey Btm-pix ever had your 3c app uninstall itself?  just went to use it and it was no longer there. had to reinstall it kinda curious for any insight

17 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I just received a phone call that my P4K just arrived!

I have a very tough schedule but I am getting it soon!

I think you will like it 😀

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On 10/8/2019 at 5:29 AM, leslie said:

Hey Btm-pix ever had your 3c app uninstall itself?  just went to use it and it was no longer there. had to reinstall it kinda curious for any insight

Nope.

Once the app is in the Play Store, all of that stuff is taken care of by your phone's OS so its possible your phone had an update that maybe didn't sync all the apps?

Google made some changes to the icon specs recently which may also have caused it but I haven't heard any other reports.

 

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So, yes, I got it in the end. Have no time for tests right now, but I used a CFast card, the Hawk-Woods NFP adapter and the Lens Regain and everything seemed ok.

First of all, can the Lens Regain be connected electronically to the Pocket 4K camera?

The 12-100mm is a disappointment. Wanted it to be my run and gun lens but it is unusable. Very disappointing, wish BM could offer some kind of profile for popular m43 lenses.  I am not sure about other lenses, but with a performance like that this is definitely NOT an m43 camera. 

I will try Canon EF and Viltrox adapters in the next few days.

 

 

 

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On 10/9/2019 at 10:15 PM, BTM_Pix said:

Nope.

Once the app is in the Play Store, all of that stuff is taken care of by your phone's OS so its possible your phone had an update that maybe didn't sync all the apps?

Google made some changes to the icon specs recently which may also have caused it but I haven't heard any other reports.

 

ok thanks, i'm thinking it might be the os. Once i reinstalled i got a virus warning from the the phone straight away, however i clicked on it but it didn't remove or change anything, your not trying to secretly take over the world or anything btm ? 😎 I have another msg saying there's another update available for the phone os. I'll install that later and see what happens.

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13 hours ago, Kisaha said:

First of all, can the Lens Regain be connected electronically to the Pocket 4K camera?

Yes.

The Lens Regain does smart things but remains a dumb adapter at the camera end as all of its electronics are external.

If you look at the rear of it, you will see a void where the lens contacts wold be on an MFT lens so there is no connection at all with the camera electronics.

 

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1 minute ago, BTM_Pix said:

Yes.

The Lens Regain does smart things but remains a dumb adapter at the camera end as all of its electronics are external.

If you look at the rear of it, you will see a void where the lens contacts wold be on an MFT lens so there is no connection at all with the camera electronics.

 

There are 2 cables included in the Aputure case, one for GH cameras, and another one for older BM cameras, is there a way to connect the P4K with such a cable? (micro USB to usb C maybe?).

It doesn't seem to change focus without it, or am I wrong? I can only change the aperture.

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