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stephen

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  1. Presets could be used to speed processing time. Don't shoot weddings but had similar discussion on a local forum. A pro photographer using Sony for weddings said that he uses presets for all images. 20-30 of the best photos he process individually. That's exactly what I would do too. He has clients in Switzerland and Germany and shoots with Sony exclusively. If you like Canon colors out of the box and/or save time is post then of course use Canon. Have both Canon and Sony cameras. 3 months ago got EOS M and it's my 2nd Canon camera RAW ML video is very good - Canon colors, setting white balance in post, etc. But still have to process, color correct and grade each clip individually in order to get the best image out of it. In the process learned quite a lot how to shoot with this camera and how to process the footage. And it is like this with every other camera. Recently did a small project with Sony A7 III. Search on youtube for EOS M RAW. There are plenty videos shot in RAW. Some are crap, some are OK and some stand out. Same camera, same color science (RAW) but quite different results. Zeek really makes this camera shine. But yes in general getting good colors with Sony is more challenging and requires some research tests and fiddling with the settings, profiles, etc. A7S uses a different sensor and because of it or because of different CS is the worst when shooting 8bit 4:2:0 x264 video. With RAW format for photo don't have a problem.
  2. Here is my grade. Took me 3-4 min more for than my regular workflow. Have no preference in terms of color / color science between Canon and Sony.
  3. For me the easiest way and with best results to color correct and grade Sony S-Log is to use ACES color space in Davinci Resolve. You set the correct imput and output for the project or just selected clips and it does the transformation from S-Log to REC709 for you. And it does it well. Should work with HLG BT2020 color profiles as well. But didn't test it.
  4. It depends what same converter exactly means. Same converter program or same program + same settings. Same converter + different adjustment values in converter + different camera = same colors Have done tests in photo with different cameras and there is no problem to get the same colors for the same scene and lighting with different cameras and even different lenses. For me it boils down to what frontfocus said: And as how we see color is subjective, better starting point is also subjective. So there are some camera+converter combinations that we like more than the others and get us the colors we want and like much easier.
  5. It depends what kind of AF. Tracking AF in video is not working. At least when in ML RAW modes. It's working in photo mode. But don't like it and don't use it. However single shot AF is working in both photo and video including ML RAW. Single shot like: you press the button, camera focuses and signals when focus is achieved. It's kind of slow but it works and focus is reliable. In my settings different buttons are assigned for focusing and exposure metering. Here is how usually shoot no matter if AF or MF is used. 1. check/correct exposure settings 2. Frame 3. Focus 4.Start recording. It's a slow process but works reasonably well. This is not a camera for fast paced shooting. Settings in video are as follows: AF method - FlexiZoneAF square / Focus mode - AF+MF
  6. stephen

    Davinci Resolve 16

    Agree with you on the point that deleting a clip and moving the play head the same length ahead is annoying. This is something they should definitely think about and fix. But other than that, like the new cut page. Did some edits on the weekend - a short 2 minute video composed from approximately 30-40 smaller clips. And a bigger one assembled from 150-200 clips. The two timelines approach, with whole thing on the top and detailed clips at the bottom really helps me cut faster. Guess it all depends on our editing habits. Was able to almost finish the two small projects (total length of 7 min) in one day. Usually it takes much longer and this is the most difficult part for me - choosing the clips, or parts of the clips, figuring out the way to arrange them, composing the whole video. Now this whole process was easier, faster and even fun. Here is a good demonstration how new cut pages helps get this part done faster: Resolve is an incredible piece of software, especially considering the price.
  7. Latest EOS M ML RAW builds are from master chef Danne, here: https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9741.msg208959#msg208959 And you can follow development on the same thread. MLV App is de facto the only application to use as starting point of your editing. It is as an extension of the EOS M ML RAW video for many reasons: - effective way to remove focusing pixels - correctly debayering 5K Anamorphic crop mode. Or pseudo anamorphic is reality but anyway And yes get the latest MLV App and EOS M RAW versions. Ilya keeps adding new features to MLV App and Danne keeps fixing bugs and improving the build.
  8. Cinema 4K is fully supported and working on Samsung Galaxy S10+. Camera 2 API checker application shows full support which was kind of a problem with previous Galaxies. High bit rate and flat profiles are available trough Cinema 4K and other applications. Quality of the video is quite good IMHO. Filmic Pro checker reports everything is supported even log profile, including [email protected] and Cinematographer Kit with [email protected] FPS with log profile, the only exception being [email protected] and maybe Log v2 profile which as far as I understand is only working on some iPhone models (Apple A12 CPU required). Keep in mind that in Europe Samsung Galaxy 10/10+ smartphones come with Exynos 9820 CPU, which according to Filmic Pro they can hack to support better their application. The version with Qualcomm CPU doesn't offer this support. At least that was the case with Galaxy S9. https://filmicpro.helpscoutdocs.com/article/41-samsung-s9-and-s9-filmic-pro-v6-compatibility-guide Optical stabilization is quite good. Basically this is the second best smartphone to buy for video after iPhone XS and XS Max.
  9. Also looking for gimbal able to carry cameras slightly bigger than mirroless - BMPCC 4K, Canon 5D Mark III. And so far Moza Air 2 seems to be the best choice with only 2 drawbacks - weight and size. Moza gives a weight of 1.6kg with batteries. Brandon Li complains in his review about the weight. But in Feiyu AK2000 gimbal review he says weight is OK. According to the specs Feiyu AK2000 with batteries is 1.4-1.45kg. Don't think 150-200g will make such a perceivable difference. And in most other reviews Moza Air 2 is measured to be close to Ronin S. Time for Moza to come with Moza Aircross 2
  10. Title Color Science Means Nothing With Raw... Really? is misleading. At least when related to the test you are using as a show case. Three different cameras were used and while the sensor is the same, 4 different codecs / formats were used and only one of them is RAW. As author of the test states bellow the video: All clips from the E2 were shot in 10bit 4:2:0 H.265 ZLog. The GH5s was shot in 10 bit 4:2:2 H.264 VLog. The BMPCC 4K was shot in both 12 bit Cinema DNG RAW 3:1 and 10 bit ProRes HQ (which means 4:2:2 color) So this video test proves nothing in terms of RAW video simply because only one of the cameras in some of the clips shot RAW. Cameras use different processors and electronics, different codecs so differences in final image are normal, expected even in cases when the sensor is the same. Even if those camera shot RAW it's reasonable to expect final video NOT to look identical. If the goal was to color match them, the easiest and correct way would be to use color chart. Am sure after color correction with color chart the image will be pretty close if not identical. A reference point (color chart) is needed when matching is the goal as more or less this guaranties you have correct colors in post no matter what lens, codec, camera or sensors are used. Did some test for RAW photo and with color chart can match almost perfectly images from different cameras in different lighting conditions. Am sure nobody can tell which camera was used for each image. Anyone can easily do this test and repeat the results. In photo when using RAW so called color science of the camera really means nothing. That's a proven point for me. Video cameras shooting RAW don't quite use RAW. There is always some alteration of the data (image). Like applying LOG gamma curve, using a particular codec, color space etc. We discussed this in the other topic around the Tony Northrup tests. So IMHO whatever you call it color science or not it's logical to expect cameras using the same sensor to yield slightly different images. And cameras using different sensors, processors, codecs, etc to give different images. Difference is additionally complicated by the fact that color correction for video is more difficult and complex due to different codecs, color spaces, LOG gamma etc. Not many people outside the professional editors and colorists learn and put the effort to master the process. Additionally differences in dynamic range and other parameters of the sensors also play a role to the perception of the image. But with some more efforts and skills it can be done same way as in photo. Using color charts using correct color space transformations, etc. And matching could be extended even for cameras that don't use RAW codecs but much more limiting h264 8 or 10 bit 4:2:2 ones. Did some initial tests and plan to do more. Am confident it can be done and there are plenty of clues around. - Zacuto did a test years ago and on big screen highly skilled cinema and video professionals in a blind test were not able to tell the difference between Panasonic GH2 with 1080p and x264 8 bit 4:2:0 codec and Arri Alexa 2.5K RAW - in the movie Man from U.N.C.L.E various cameras were used. Here is the full list: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1638355/technical?ref_=tt_dt_spec Among them Canon 5D Mark II and Go Pro 3. Can you guess which scenes were shot with Canon 5D Mark II or even Canon EOS C500 ? I can't. Go Pro 3 yes, using logic where such a camera will be used but for the rest am clueless. Look at this guy test. - Arri alexa vs Canon T3i. Yes there is difference in colors but they can be made quite similar, quite close So bottom line is, it all boils down to how easy and with less effort we are able to get the colors we like. And how much we can afford to pay. Our preferences to a camera and certain "color science" are purely subjective. Which kind of contradicts the science part
  11. MLV App works on Mac OS and allows to export in any format including ProRes. Application supports lossless compression. New features are constantly added and is well supported: https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=20025.0
  12. stephen

    Color science

    Fully agree with TheRenaissanceMan and you. We are on the same page here. How easy or difficult it is to get the color we want makes huge difference. My comments about RAW were mostly for photo. Tony's test is mostly for the photo side of hybrid cameras. Adding video in the bag is not correct, because: a. as you point out most DSLR mirrorless cameras shoot 8bit 4:2:0 which is quite different and limited compared to RAW and even JPG. Getting the colors we want may be quite difficult and time consuming. b. RAW video is not = to RAW photo. Most if not all cameras shoot RAW video but in log format. Which means some kind of additional processing related to colors is applied in camera. It is not the RAW image as it comes from the sensor. And cameras from different companies have different log formats, even the sensor is the same. For example Panasonic GH5S and Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K. Same sensor, different log formats. In both cases there is some form of in camera color processing/manipulation. We still have the problem measuring those colors in RAW, we still have to go with the development process before any measurement is possible. But it would be correct to say there is in camera color science and is logical to expect that it will affect the end results. Tony's argument that people will not notice and object slight variation in color and sometimes even big color shifts also is not correct for video. We still want to get the colors we want and even we ignore this we still have to color match different sequences under different lighting condition in one movie/clip.
  13. stephen

    Color science

    IMHO the strength of the RGB CFA's over the photo sites is related more to the exposure than to color. Stronger filter = less photons reaching the photo sites. But still one pixel (photo site) = one basic color (R, G or B). The other two still need to be generated/interpolated in software in order pixel to have all RGB values. There is no need to theorize in that much details. Everyone can do simple test. Take a photo of an object with one single color (in RAW). Let say a blue ball. Import the picture in photo editing program. Camera doesn't matter. If color of the object was BLUE can make it GREEN or RED or any other color. That’s why said RAW has no color.
  14. stephen

    Color science

    OK maybe this statement (RAW has no color) is not that accurate. The point is that RAW has to be developed before you have the color of every pixel. You have the values for each pixel from the bayer sensor but they are one of the 3 basic colors only - Green, Red, Blue. With different intensity. Before the debayering / development you don't have "real" colors - RGB values for each pixel, only one of this values - R or G or B. The other two are interpolated, "made" by the software. So before developing the image you can't measure anything related to color. This process has 3 variables (actually more): 1- the sensor and other electronics around it. Let's call it hardware. 2- the software that do the debayering/interpolation. 3 - the human deciding which parameter to use for the development. For color there are many parameters that can be changed in the software. So how you are going to measure for accurate color the developed image coming from RAW (because RAW can't be measured), when it is dependent of so many parameters and most of them are not related to the camera ? Yes watched the video and totally agree with Tony that for RAW there is no point to measure color accuracy of the camera or cameras color science. As color depends on too many variables and parameters outside of the camera. You can literally get any color you want in the program. Now Mattias and many other people argue that every camera (sensor and electronics in the camera) has specific signature and they affects the RAW image and as result the final/developed image. This is true. It that sens not all RAW are equal. Yes indeed it's one of the variable (some of the variables) in the process and for sure has an impact for the final image. Dynamic range of the sensor for example definitely affects the final image. But for colors specifically my argument is that all those differences in the sensor are easily obliterated by the software. Remember 2/3 of the color information is made by the software. It is the software (algorithm) and human behind it, who has the final saying what color a pixel and whole picture will have. So for me when people says different sensors / hardware give me differences in colors they mostly mean: different sensors/cameras gives me different colors in MY workflow. :) You can perfectly color match photos from different cameras/sensors. Same for video. So we agree to disagree here
  15. stephen

    Color science

    There are no colors yet in RAW. What to test then ? The color science of the developing programs or the skills of the person working with it ? For photography everybody is using RAW for serious work but yet argue about BETTER color science which affect only JPG and is different for different profiles and is subjective at the end. Better doesn't mean accurate. Better is very subjective. In this part he's right IMHO. For video however it's different. For those mirroless / DSLR cameras we don't have the choice of using RAW video. We still can tweak the colors but are much more limited, white balance is backed in. Tweaking the colors the way we like them is not that easy in video as to take a RAW file and fix the white balance. Getting the colors close to the final edit straight off the camera for video may save tons of time and effort. So don't agree with him when he throws video in the argument but does only test photo.
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