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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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11 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I unerstand what you mean, I just not going to shoot on 6K anytime soon, and the Pocket 4K can be used with 0.64/0.71/0.75/2X adapters, a lot more versatile.

Thanks.

But if you were planning on shooting with the Olympus 12-100mm anyway, then what’s the difference? You were happy to have a 1.89x crop. 

With the P6K, you can still shoot 4K, you have more native lens options, with no adapters, and a smaller crop.

Just an alternate point of view.

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34 minutes ago, mercer said:

But if you were planning on shooting with the Olympus 12-100mm anyway, then what’s the difference? You were happy to have a 1.89x crop. 

With the P6K, you can still shoot 4K, you have more native lens options, with no adapters, and a smaller crop.

Just an alternate point of view.

I have 5 Samyang primes, and a few more EF lenses (the newer 70-200mm 4f among them), and the 12-100mm for run and gun. The lens is very small and light for the range with great stabilization. I already own Lens Regain and Viltrox adapters.

I would never shoot on 6K and I wouldn't buy the Italian speedbooster, so what is the point to spend double the money - 1420euros the P4K and 2799euros the P6K, for things I wouldn't use or need?

If the camera ain't here in a couple of weeks I will just invest on something else, it is a pity to spend the money on a rented camera, while I can buy a new one, even if it ain't the one I really needed, it is an opportunity I can not miss. I may even consider the newer EF-M if it is really worth it! How worst it is against the C200 8bit codec?

My point here is that is really disappointing that BM may loose a customer, and I am sure I am not the only one.

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2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I have 5 Samyang primes, and a few more EF lenses (the newer 70-200mm 4f among them), and the 12-100mm for run and gun. The lens is very small and light for the range with great stabilization. I already own Lens Regain and Viltrox adapters.

I would never shoot on 6K and I wouldn't buy the Italian speedbooster, so what is the point to spend double the money - 1420euros the P4K and 2799euros the P6K, for things I wouldn't use or need?

If the camera ain't here in a couple of weeks I will just invest on something else, it is a pity to spend the money on a rented camera, while I can buy a new one, even if it ain't the one I really needed, it is an opportunity I can not miss. I may even consider the newer EF-M if it is really worth it! How worst it is against the C200 8bit codec?

My point here is that is really disappointing that BM may loose a customer, and I am sure I am not the only one.

I know it was mentioned before, but the Z-Cam E2 seems to be a very serious competitor to the BMPCC cameras, and the reviews by Kai and Look were very favourable without many real down-sides.  There's a newer model IIRC called the E2-C which is cheaper, and may be similar to the P4K?  If you haven't already, maybe have a look at the spec sheet and a few reviews?

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6 hours ago, kye said:

I know it was mentioned before, but the Z-Cam E2 seems to be a very serious competitor to the BMPCC cameras, and the reviews by Kai and Look were very favourable without many real down-sides.  There's a newer model IIRC called the E2-C which is cheaper, and may be similar to the P4K?  If you haven't already, maybe have a look at the spec sheet and a few reviews?

Yeah also recommended the Z-Cam E2. I haven't tried it though but looks like it's also a good cam + 4K 120fps without crop. E2-C is a cheaper version but I don't think it can record at 4K with 120fps. I think one downside is that it doesnt work with Viltrox speedboosters so you have to spring for the more expensive Metabones to adapt EF lenses

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1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Anyone know if the Pocket 4k still has the heavy spatial noise reduction going on that I am hearing about? 

sorry cant help you, cant even say i have heard anything in the facebook p4k group either. There was some talk a month or so ago on the forum about blue sky banding. However myself and a few others couldn't replicate the issue and i haven't heard anymore about it. What   other info do you have ?

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On 10/3/2019 at 6:12 PM, kye said:

I know it was mentioned before, but the Z-Cam E2 seems to be a very serious competitor to the BMPCC cameras, and the reviews by Kai and Look were very favourable without many real down-sides.  There's a newer model IIRC called the E2-C which is cheaper, and may be similar to the P4K?  If you haven't already, maybe have a look at the spec sheet and a few reviews?

Be careful with the E2-C. Make sure that you check out the reviews before buying it. I believe that it has terrible rolling shutter and very limited dynamic range. The E2 might be ok, but the E2-C is not in the same league. 

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35 minutes ago, drm said:

Be careful with the E2-C. Make sure that you check out the reviews before buying it. I believe that it has terrible rolling shutter and very limited dynamic range. The E2 might be ok, but the E2-C is not in the same league. 

Yeah the E2-C sensor seems to be a lot like the GH4, but worse rolling shutter. 

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today's test: 

BMMCC - best colors and overall look , a little noisy picture, but the noise is pleasant. Moire problem. But overall he is the winner! (Slowmo 60p) 

at ISO 400 is slightly cleaner in the shadows. (Native is 800) . It is not a modern clear picture, but as a best film emulation.

BMPCC (orig) - same as BMMCC but only 30p (a little more noise and moire than BMMCC)

BMPCC4K - worse colors and overall picture is shifted to yellow-red?  sharp highlights rolloff 😞 the picture is far more difficult to correct and color than the old pocket 😞

the picture is cleaner , but it gets a "video look" ,  The shape of the body is terrible.  I gave a second chance and really didn't ... I put it back.

GH5 - The best tool for run & shot - Worse colors than BMPCC4K but not much, excelent IBIS ! , battery life, adjustable display and viewfinder. Very economical codec for all day shooting. It's a winner if you need quick and comfortable shooting.  It is a modern clear picture. Winner for RUN & GUN Shooting

 

So everything stays the same, I keep GH5 for modern picture style, BMMCC for film emulation project. 

BMPCC4K - not necessary 🙂

IMG_3416.thumb.jpg.d7a8e4a41610386d92cdb788e00f4bbe.jpg

                     

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1 hour ago, tonysss said:

 

BMPCC4K - worse colors and overall picture is shifted to yellow-red?  sharp highlights rolloff 😞 the picture is far more difficult to correct and color than the old pocket 😞

the picture is cleaner , but it gets a "video look" ,  The shape of the body is terrible.  I gave a second chance and really didn't ... I put it back.

GH5 - The best tool for run & shot - Worse colors than BMPCC4K but not much, excelent IBIS ! , battery life, adjustable display and viewfinder. Very economical codec for all day shooting. It's a winner if you need quick and comfortable shooting.  It is a modern clear picture. Winner for RUN & GUN Shooting

 

Beg to differ, my experience is just the reverse one. With P4K (Braw) one can do what ones wants, go in both directions ("organic" vs "digital"); not with GH5. Yellow-red shift could depend on lenses, settings, lights etc. "Run & Gun" section also depends on what one is shooting.

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7 minutes ago, Novim said:

Beg to differ, my experience is just the reverse one. With P4K (Braw) one can do what ones wants, go in both directions ("organic" vs "digital"); not with GH5. Yellow-red shift could depend on lenses, settings, lights etc. "Run & Gun" section also depends on what one is shooting.

 

Yes you are right, GH5 is the worst in colors, just as I write. But the old fairchild sensor gives me the best color and easy color correction. The new pocket 4K is exactly in the middle between GH5 and Fairchild. Everyone likes a different machine, that's okay. I write purely my findings. 

 

 

 

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It's all about the pleasure to shoot... : ) I simply stop to shoot with my dozen of Panasonic camera units when started to put my hands on P4K -- how can I read here this is unnecessary?? It just puzzles me!

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it must be nice to have the luxury of several cameras to choose from and i thank you for your insights. Coming from a total newbie perspective. For me the p4k is a perfectly capable camera. The ui is easy enough to work out, you get a free editor. the battery life is ok, not outstanding, but ok Maybe the picture isn't as organic as the original but its still a great picture none the less. Originally i wasn't a fan of the screen brightness when outside, however if i take my phone outside i cant read the screen on it either so complaining about screen brightness is abit silly in hindsight. My only grievance is that there is no tilting or flippy screen. Perhaps i'm a spoilt brat, the thing is my canon 60d made in 2010 has a folding flippy screen, what the marketing department was telling the boss i have no idea, i do believe they got that rigid screen totally wrong. But for $1200 us or $1850 aus its still a pretty impressive camera. No camera is perfect, but you can always rig the camera up to make it more applicable to whatever it is you want to do.

 

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1 hour ago, leslie said:

it must be nice to have the luxury of several cameras to choose from and i thank you for your insights. Coming from a total newbie perspective. For me the p4k is a perfectly capable camera. The ui is easy enough to work out, you get a free editor. the battery life is ok, not outstanding, but ok Maybe the picture isn't as organic as the original but its still a great picture none the less. Originally i wasn't a fan of the screen brightness when outside, however if i take my phone outside i cant read the screen on it either so complaining about screen brightness is abit silly in hindsight. My only grievance is that there is no tilting or flippy screen. Perhaps i'm a spoilt brat, the thing is my canon 60d made in 2010 has a folding flippy screen, what the marketing department was telling the boss i have no idea, i do believe they got that rigid screen totally wrong. But for $1200 us or $1850 aus its still a pretty impressive camera. No camera is perfect, but you can always rig the camera up to make it more applicable to whatever it is you want to do.

 

Yeah a tilting screen would have really been great. 

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I’m curious about the folks “taking away points” from the BMPCC4k for not being a run and gun camera. I’m not sure I saw marketing that claimed it was one. So while I’m sure some people find that input and insight important when choosing a camera, I still find it odd that some use it as a metric to claim the camera is “less usable”

 

But i guess i agree, if you’re looking for a camera to shoot wedding type events in run-and-gun mixed light scenarios, then this probably isn’t the camera for you. If you want that setup and footage you can just drop a LUT on and not think about. GH5 is hard to beat.

 

If you’re a more planned and set-up type of photographer who needs a cheap camera that gives you a cinematic raw image that you know how to color correct. This is an excellent choice. 

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Yes, GH5 has worse colors than BMPC4K, we agree on that. (Maybe there is a mistake in my English, sorry) GH5 is the best in the like709 profile with modified knee, colors are most realistic with easy sorting. I've been using GH5 for nearly three years 1000 times I've tried all possible settings, but the best skin color gives me like 709. BMPCC4 has a much larger dynamic range than GH5, I wish BM returned to the Fairchild sensor. Or try Ursu 4.6k (but money 😞)

don't get me wrong, I know very well what BMPC4K and what he was devised for, My main complaint is that the good old Fairchild colors are gone, and I prefer to keep the BMMCC. I would like to draw the attention of future buyers. On old cameras, editing was extremely simple, on the new BMPCC4 it takes me more work to get the picture where I need it. 

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15 minutes ago, IncriminatingPictures said:

I’m curious about the folks “taking away points” from the BMPCC4k for not being a run and gun camera. I’m not sure I saw marketing that claimed it was one. So while I’m sure some people find that input and insight important when choosing a camera, I still find it odd that some use it as a metric to claim the camera is “less usable”

 

Whilst I don't disagree at all with the overall point you're making, I think it is fair to point out that Blackmagic do actually show it in a numerous scenarios in their marketing that would fit into that sort of use, at least in the way they are representing the cameras being used by the operators.

Although the detail in the equipment used section for each scenarios belies those illustrations, which is a bit misleading as well. 

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/workflow

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36 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Whilst I don't disagree at all with the overall point you're making, I think it is fair to point out that Blackmagic do actually show it in a numerous scenarios in their marketing that would fit into that sort of use, at least in the way they are representing the cameras being used by the operators.

Although the detail in the equipment used section for each scenarios belies those illustrations, which is a bit misleading as well. 

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/workflow

Haha I see your point. I guess I’ve only ever saw the video clips and not the way they were used in the marketing material. 

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