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Idolise Trump? Goodbye!


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Looking at recent posts objectively, it is always the same users who end a perfectly good discussion on this forum with toxic bullshit. I am coming after you. It is a cull. It isn't abo

If the EOSHD site was solely about cameras, and that was it, full stop, then I say a ban on politics is fine.  However, Andrew's site has always been a place that is non-corporate and "unsterile,

In an ideal world we could agree to disagree on our politics. But seems some don't even read what I said...I don't care which way you voted, as long as you don't bring unethical toxic idiotic pos

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@Mike Mgee I think intelligent political discussion still has its place. However intelligent political discussion and forums don't really mix well from my experience. It can start well, but as soon as some bad apples come into the mix, it sours the discussion for everyone else.

Andrew, I think what you are doing is fine. After all, it's your forum. No one here registered without knowing that you run the show, your name is on the banner after all ! 

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3 hours ago, Mike Mgee said:

@Andrew Reid Instead of creating a list and banning people who don't have the same behavior, characters, and values as you.....how about you have a blanket ban against all political discussion?

I suffered a catastrophic financial blow several months ago via some camera button pushing monkeys that I absolutely know are aligned with regressive low-level values. I can easily imagine that these same folks climb into sites like this to gain insight and fuel their egos in daily life and while on shoots. And sometimes they then climb into roles where they decide if you work... or lose your house. Fuck these 'people.'

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But won't this create a toxic environment for political circle jerking though? Since there will be only one side of the political spectrum present on this forum. I agree with the other users about the idea of a blanket ban, since these political discussion often don't bring much value to this specific forum, and both sides of the coin can get pretty toxic at times. Or maybe there should be a specific subforum just for politics, since a lot of us on other subforums is only interested in gear and filmmaking. Having any political posts or replies in these threads really does ruin the atmosphere of this forum. That way we could still allow political discussion to proceed, but there won't be any "wankers" present in these normal threads.

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10 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Looking at recent posts objectively, it is always the same users who end a perfectly good discussion on this forum with toxic bullshit.

I am coming after you.

It is a cull.

It isn't about politics.

It's about values!

To protect a community I love... I have no choice.

To be clear, it is none of my business which way you vote. What matters is behaviour, character, values.

If you've been a good contributor here and kind to people you get to stay.

If not, then you are going to be asked to leave and I will pursue people who return under a different name.

This is purely because there are now far too many posts being trashed and too much arguing driven by people with the wrong values which I despise.

I am going to use this week to draw up a list of people who strongly align themselves with Trump's politics of America First.

And I will be getting rid of the lot of you.

Yes you can say it's a political purge but I prefer to think of it as purely about values and about protecting users who DO contribute positively to the forum.

If these idiots are allowed to get away with bringing Trump idolising bullshit into this community then all our work will be for nothing and Russia with their fake-user farms will have won too, because I am 99% sure at least a few of the idiots are completely made-up shill users whose role is to divide us politically and weaken our online communities.

At a time when we must pull together as a camera-community, as filmmaking industry, even as a country, indeed as a world - to get through tough economic times ahead - dumb arguments which ignore factual data are a waste of time.

What has happened to the world in recent weeks is stressful enough and I personally do not need to hear from certain people in every thread. I will not be providing a platform for Red cap wearing idiots who haven't contributed a single shot or image to this forum.

I get that EOSHD has a big US readership, in fact the US contribution to my site is the largest in the world and I want to keep as many of you as possible and not lose any friends who just happen to disagree with me on politics.

But if you are going to be a shill for Trump's politics or somebody who is a complete shit-stirrer and troll, then I will no longer be turning a blind eye to it and the cull starts now...

Have fun on your way out.

I agree with many things Trump does and disagree with many others. Anyone who completely agrees or disagrees with anyone, including God, is probably a Communist, not because he doesn't have opinions, but because there is an absolute ban on expressing any opinion, not in complete compliance with the dictats of the top leadership. 

This post almost seems like it's right out of Communist China or USSR under Stalin or Lenin or Germany under Hitler.

In any civil world, one can Agree to Agree or Agree to Disagree, and both choices are respected. Lack of choice is the foundation of Communism, whether disguised as hard left, or modern age liberals trolling anyone and everyone on social media and in public, even their own brethren, if opinions aren't expressed by an exact expression of phrases and words, including calling everyone else in disagreement with themselves (including non radical liberals) as fascists and racists and evil and (ironically) intolerant and other names.   

If the whole purpose of this post is about politics, maybe politics should be kept out of discussions here. Or dedicate a thread to political discussions (if political discussion can ever be called that).

Ban me or ban whoever you want. There is a huge chance that many of us won't make it past a few weeks from now, thanks to a China created and criminally and negligently spread virus. So it probably won't even matter.

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14 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I get that EOSHD has a big US readership, in fact the US contribution to my site is the largest in the world and I want to keep as many of you as possible and not lose any friends who just happen to disagree with me on politics.


You do realize that HALF of the population in American voted for Trump? (and the other half voted for Clinton)

And very likely during this year's election we're going to have "roughly" (give or take a few percent in either direction) half of people vote for Trump again, and half vote for Biden. (assuming Biden wins the nomination? I still have my fingers crossed for Sanders)

Those are truly massive numbers who supported Trump, it might be really hard for us outside the USA to understand (heck, is hard for people even inside the USA to understand! If they live somewhere such as California), but that's the facts. You want to drive out half of your biggest source in the world of contributions to EOSHD? I think that would make EOSHD a much poorer place. 

I feel a bit of tolerance and compassion towards a diversity of views would go a long way in this time of crisis. We're all one. I don't think anybody here is fundamentally evil, everyone stills wants the best for humanity and for good outcomes, they just have differing perspectives of how to get there and different lived live experiences they grew up with which shapes that. 

Two suggestions I'd have:
1) just ban discussions of politics, it's a too prickly topic?
2) have an "off topic" forum, so any thread which goes off the rails can be moved to there and the discussions can carry on away from the main front page forum. 

Personally I think #2 is the best approach, as it is extremely hard and a lot of effort to police what is and what isn't "political", the grey zone is very large and very blurry! (heck, as Paul Krugman and many many others have said: "EVERYTHING is political"! Now, that truly makes it impossible to judge what is and isn't!)

 

While we are on this topic, I don't at all understand why that thread got locked?

I think it is a really interesting discussion to go into what (perhaps previous unattainable items for us!) in this coming recession are going to come down in price fastest? 

Perhaps the FS7 is facing a massive drop soon due to its age and the new FX9? Or maybe the FX9 isn't a big enough leap forward, and the FS7 is still a solid workhorse for everyone, perhaps it won't drop as much as I think/hope. 

Will the ARRI ALEXA Classic plunge even further in price due to it being non-4K and too big / heavy? Or is that top notch sensor inside going to see a limit in how far it will fall and no further? Perhaps if the new S35 4K ARRI sensor had came out this year as promised instead of next year, then it would have got a serious drop. 

Will premium luxury branded cameras (such as the Leica X Vario, which @BTM_Pix would love to see become affordable) see massive plunges in price due to people who were only credit card funded rich needing to sell them off at any price during the recession? 

Certainly in my particular scenario, I had a perfect storm of 600MHz being banned just a few weeks ago *AND* the coronavirus shut down, meant I got a latest generation Lectrosonics digital hybrid transmitter for an outrageously cheap price. Win!

That thread has no mention of Trump whatsoever, so why was it locked? 

There was one mention of POTUS, but in a generic way I thought that didn't really matter who held that position. Which was generating a side conversation which only went for a couple of posts before the thread was locked, but I think it was a point started that would be really interesting to discuss for us filmmakers. 

How long is this shut down going to last? How long for the recession, when and how will work be picking back up again?

These are CRUCIAL questions we as business owners (as if you're doing this filmmaking lark professional, then that is what you are, a business owner! Even if just an employer of one: yourself) need to ask. 

They're also extremely tough questions to wrestle with, as there is so much uncertainty. But they matter. As if work will pick up again once the martial law lockdown is over for us in NZ, then expenses such as buying a new Lectrosonics this week doesn't matter, heck, even if I'd bought it at a 50% higher price (heck, got three of them even at a higher price!) then that doesn't matter.  And gee, if I saw a cheap FS7 and I've got the cash I should probably scoop that up asap too!

My brother leans towards that perspective (he does have $200K outstanding in invoices currently, so understandably he hopes so!):
That it is going to be a four week shutdown but afterwards things will pick up again (but perhaps gradually, while the chaos gets sorted out first).
And he reckons advertising/marketing will be one of the first to take off. 

Personally I'm more pessimistic. What if someone perhaps thinks it could be a two year long recession for the advertising / film industry? In that case, not even if I got offered a Lectro LMb for a hundred bucks should I buy it! Neither should I buy any camera gear! Nothing should be spent on anything that isn't rent or food! Pennies must be saved. 
(obviously I don't take this stance, as I took that LMb deal! But a little part of me wonders... the odds of that outcome isn't so slim? Might happen, but I desperately hope not)

Of course not only do we have questions of timing, which matter for business planning, but also how can we approach what is going to be "the new normal" for many of us for the near term future? 

How do we work under this? How can we get work? What new opportunities might there be?

Obviously streaming is a new opportunity! A lot of streaming equipment is sold out and massively back ordered, and even secondhand gear on eBay is selling for shocking prices ABOVE what they're usually for brand new! Wow. 
(classic case of the economic law of Demand vs Supply!)

For myself, I think I'm in a unique position as the only ENG Soundie in the entire country who owns a Cedar DNS-2 (which paired with a Sanken CS-3e is a fearsome combo!), this not only is useful for live streaming, but in this new reality of not being able to use lavs due to the Coronavirus means I can still capture great audio without resorting to a lav track like many small budget productions would (who can't/won't do audio post processing with a skilled dialogue editor for NR).

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I steer clear of such discussions. Like my mom used to say to us 'oh stop it already before one of you ends up crying!', lol. With politics it's always someone who gets offended and goes 'ahw fuck this, this is bullshit, you are bullshit, fuck off already', especially when characters have a bit more ego, it's just bound to clash and end up badly. A good sum of people are already missing from today's forum shenanigans, which I really find a darn shame. That's actual wisdom, creativity and inspiration regarding filmmaking, techniques and gear flushed down the drain for no good reason. Which, you know, I believe a place like this should unite people with that passion for creation. Not a place to bicker about politics. Like, what's even the fucking use? You know it's gonna end up in disaster. Can't imagine anyone feeling good about that, so why do that to yourself? Don't have to get all hippie and go 'everyone human being is beautiful, only positive vibes allowed, lets all align our chakras', but live and let live, don't have to headbutt eachother when you don't agree on something, flippin' move on already and focus again on the things you do have in common... like else at this rate there won't be any forummembers left to have wholesome discussions with and to the outside world will look like a toxic wasteland. Please let us just get nerdy again, talk about great camera motion, the latest lenses and such, try to see past our differences and keep emotions in check... I know it's shitty times right now, but that's exactly when we should keep one another sane and be respectful. Oh well..

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I always appreciated an honest point of view. Because it was just that: a personal opinion, which was not worse than mine just because of being different from mine. It becomes of course very unpleasant with obvious misantrophic and cyninc opinions.

Some people and friends on this forum happened to have voted for the current president. They are awesome contributors and human beings, kind, helpful, gentle.  I am sure that Andrew will not ban them! For the hateful commenters I would wish to give them another chance at showing their humane side. A very few self proclaimed liberal contributors have not been too well mannered neither, with a few stronger lacks of reason and logic in their argumentation, lack of the least amount of manners as well.

Like I stated before a few months ago, I find that technology race for 8K kinda obscene, all the natural resources, all that power hungry streaming, all that for some lowest common denominatr of media content, subpar entertainment. We are all involved in that kind of 1st world obscenity and hypocracy. Let´s not get sucked into mob mentality. I would have loved a Blackmagic Cinema Camera 2.5K with 60p mode and a 15ms readout and decent battery life. Enough camera for fantastic cinematic image quality and engough space for nerdom, lens freakery, diy stuff, behind the scenes footage... Andrew should repost some of his awesome blog posts of the past. They hold so much more inspiration for the future filmmaker than some dull tech reviews of current hyper, 8k, 2000fps camras on some gadget websites. I mean ladys stockings for lens filter, hallo, now we are talking and testing!:)

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5 hours ago, IronFilm said:


You do realize that HALF of the population in American voted for Trump? (and the other half voted for Clinton)

 

Not quite.     Not that many voted compared to how many Americans there are (and She actually got a few million more votes than he did which is something that seems just weird to me but , close enough).     About 19% of Americans voted for Trump and about 20% voted for Clinton

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5 hours ago, IronFilm said:


You do realize that HALF of the population in American voted for Trump? (and the other half voted for Clinton)
 

Sorry, but you are wrong here. 62,984,828 people voted for Trump, vs 65,853,514 for Clinton, so nearly 3 million more voted for Clinton. Why isn't SHE president? Thank our regressive electoral college system put in place by aristocratic southern slaveholders. More importantly, we're a country of 323.4 million people (2016 figures). More than half the country, 186,730,724 give or take, didn't vote at all. There are many reasons for this, including economic and educational factors. But a key reason is the Republican's massive and long running voter suppression efforts in states they control, which targeted low-income, minority and other likely left-leaning voters. Their tactics include voter roll purges, restriction of access to polling places, spurious polling place vote challenges, discouragement of absentee ballots, and the list goes on.

What's the upshot here? America, the home of democracy, suffers from massive political disenfranchisement. Yes, the Cheetoh in Chief's supporters are vocal, rabid some would say. But they absolutely don't represent half of the American populace. And if our political system was actually more fair and representative, he wouldn't be our president. 

When it comes to sound advise, I'll definitely seek out your advise. But please don't try to explain our politics to us. I won't speak authoritatively on Kiwi politics either, I'll just sit here and imagine how cool it will be when I finally get to fly over and visit.

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In an ideal world we could agree to disagree on our politics.

But seems some don't even read what I said...I don't care which way you voted, as long as you don't bring unethical toxic idiotic posts into my community.

In addition there are literally people joining the forum to steer a political discussion in a topic or steer a thread off-topic, in favour of their idol Trump.

This is deeply suspicious and points to a kind of fake user linked to a campaign of some sort.

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13 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

In addition there are literally people joining the forum to steer a political discussion in a topic or steer a thread off-topic, in favour of their idol Trump.

This is deeply suspicious and points to a kind of fake user linked to a campaign of some sort.

It is this aspect that is the most troubling as the toxicity it brings impacts all genuine users on here whether they exercised their democratic right in their own country and voted for/support Trump or not.

He would absolutely not have been my choice but I respect people for whom he was their choice.

Both sides of the Trump argument about him could likely learn from each other or at least have an honest exchange of opinions but the intervention of these agent provocateurs into any exchange just entrenches positions and makes it impossible to have a reasoned discussion.

Which, by the way, is precisely what they want to do.

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There is a deeply suspicious element to it with the suspect fake user campaign. Of course I am not going to stand by and let it get worse and if I lose a few 'genuine' Trump provocateurs in the process it's not a great loss to be frank.

We all have a responsibility now to pull together.

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Long time lurker but new to the forum. While I agree that it's impossible to have an argument with some people nowadays, specially with Trump voters but also democrats, as we all have become too tribal. I don't think banning is the way to go, as that only perpetuates the division. It's a tuff choice. Hope you make the right one for the forum Andrew. 

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