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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K


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4 hours ago, Kisaha said:

My biggest issue is the 1080 deliveries and live events I shoot from time to time. This is the most dissapointing factor for me of these cameras. 95% of what I do I deliver in 1080p, even if I take it down to 80% this year, I still need great 1080p cameras. Imagine an 150minutes event that I use 3-4 cameras usually.

Kisaha, I do this all the time. It really isn't that big of a deal. Virtually all of my events are at least 3 cam events. I set the time codes on each camera and syncing later is a breeze. You will invest in more storage and soon not think much about it. I have in excess of 100TB of storage, plus online storage (S3, etc.)

As for which cam for a live event like that, I believe that I would personally bring the P4K - mostly without a speed booster. There are some really good zooms for M4/3, like the Panasonic 35-100 f/2.8 or the Olympus 40-150 f/2.8. That would give you good low light performance in a portable package. Although, in an event like that, I would really lean toward something like an A7iii for the really good low light performance and much superior focusing ability.

But, yes. The editing will take longer with the 6K footage and the storage requirements are at least double. On my machines, I have noticed little difference in playback in Resolve between the P4K and the P6K footage. All of our machines are at least 4Ghz, quad-core processors, with SSDs, so they aren't beasts, but are decent spec'd machines.

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My dear erstwhile member can you please stop attacking John Brawley now. I have long since given up on camera forum arguments so might not be completely up on who is right and who is wrong-evil /

I like the pictures. A lot.  This camera will probably replace the micro cinema camera for me as it’s not much bigger and is much easier to work with.  I didn’t feel as strongly about the 4K

What a shame. Who are these "deep state" BMD insiders that are here pushing an agenda ? Myself and Hook.  Who else ?  What do you guys think, there's a plot and conspiracy ?  You guys don't wat t

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1 hour ago, drm said:

Kisaha, I do this all the time. It really isn't that big of a deal. Virtually all of my events are at least 3 cam events. I set the time codes on each camera and syncing later is a breeze. You will invest in more storage and soon not think much about it. I have in excess of 100TB of storage, plus online storage (S3, etc.)

As for which cam for a live event like that, I believe that I would personally bring the P4K - mostly without a speed booster. There are some really good zooms for M4/3, like the Panasonic 35-100 f/2.8 or the Olympus 40-150 f/2.8. That would give you good low light performance in a portable package. Although, in an event like that, I would really lean toward something like an A7iii for the really good low light performance and much superior focusing ability.

But, yes. The editing with take longer with the 6K footage and the storage requirements are at least double. On my machines, I have noticed no difference in playback in Resolve between the P4K and the P6K footage. All of our machines are at least 4Ghz, quad-core processors, with SSDs, so they aren't beasts, but are decent spec'd machines.

How much do you pay for your online storage? S3 I assume is AWS?

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11 hours ago, leslie said:

 

maybe the sensors are from the same family  ? so to speak  which would make the colour and matching easier.

if they had gone with mft we could throw a speed booster on it quite easily. i have to wonder what kind of beast that would be ? Seeing as bm only make cameras you have to think they would make it easy to fit the largest amount of lenses available compliant with the sensor in mind as who knows what the purchaser would want to stick on the front of it. Personally i would have liked for bmd to provide a roadmap before they announced the p4k. Something like we gonna do a 4k first then 6k and perhaps a full frame later.  I might have been still saving my money for a 6k if that had been the case. but i don't resent buying the p4k. you cant just hold your breath  till the next great thing arrives, well i cant anyway lol.

i had a chance to wander into jb hifi a couple of days ago, they have 1 8k tv they can sell you, everything else is 4k. so i kinda dont get the whole 6k thing, tv's will be 4k or 8k from what i can see from the retail shop so what is 6k supposed to do ? Sure it gives you the option of reframing in post if you have to. or downscale to to 4k or upscale 8k perhaps. Is this a half camera thats  meant to do every thing ? i actually haven't really followed the 6k thing at all. Maybe i'm in denial, perhaps i dont want to know. I cant see how i have lost money by getting the p4k i think it does an excellent job for the price i payed. What the 6k would give me i'm just not sure of

6k is closer to 8k, would probably look pretty darn good on an 8k TV.

I am not sure how good 4k would look on an 8k TV. I have a 4k PC monitor but its not large enough to even tell the difference between HD and 4k. 

That said the Pocket 4k is certainly not a waste of money, I mean its only 1k in the first place. You can always sell it and get most of your money back. 

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1 hour ago, TurboRat said:

How much do you pay for your online storage? S3 I assume is AWS?

Amazon is a bit expensive, so we try to minimize what is there and how long it stays. If you use the long term storage on S3, 50TB works out to somewhere around $200 per month, depending upon usage. The deep storage is cheaper, the other options can be way more expensive (5x-6x+). Be careful what you put in regular storage, as the price can add up quickly.

If you can get by with 6TB, Microsoft OneDrive was offering 6TB for $10 /mo, which is a pretty good deal. We use raid 6 network attached storage units with 8TB external drives as backups. We try to buy 2 or 3 drives per project and build it in to the cost of the project. I like using 6 disk network attached storage in a Raid 6 array. This gives 4 drives of usable storage, so using 12TB NAS drives gives you about 48TB of storage. This 48TB of storage costs around $3000. These drives *do* fail, so budget for replacing a drive per year in a big array.

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21 hours ago, dslnc said:

Is it just me or would a P6K with Sony E-mount be much more interesting than the current EF version?

In case you are interesed on a gear combination like that I believe that Sony will try a camera like BM's with an E mount of course.

 

That's what I got from one of Sony ceo interviews .

 

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On 8/18/2019 at 1:09 PM, drm said:

The sensor in most digital cameras don't capture all of the colors at each pixel (not including Foveon). The cameras use a Bayer pattern, like the attached image, to record the color information. So, a typical 4K image doesn't have the color information for a "real" 4K image. They use a bunch of fancy math to estimate the colors in places where they don't have a reading. It is estimated that you need an image about 1.4 times larger than your final resolution in order to have proper colors. So, with a 6K image, you down sample that to a 4K image and you should get a sharper image and better colors. There are not many TVs on which you can display your 6K images at their normal resolution, but the extra resolution is useful.

350px-Bayer_pattern_on_sensor.svg.png

But how much does it REALLY matter?

Why is it that the world's best DP's are happy shooting on a camera with a 3.2K image sensor that has to be UP SCALED when recording 4k like is the case with the Alexa Mini, and yet people on forums think a 4K sensor is not good enough?

 

 

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22 hours ago, drm said:

Amazon is a bit expensive, so we try to minimize what is there and how long it stays. If you use the long term storage on S3, 50TB works out to somewhere around $200 per month, depending upon usage. The deep storage is cheaper, the other options can be way more expensive (5x-6x+). Be careful what you put in regular storage, as the price can add up quickly.

If you can get by with 6TB, Microsoft OneDrive was offering 6TB for $10 /mo, which is a pretty good deal. We use raid 6 network attached storage units with 8TB external drives as backups. We try to buy 2 or 3 drives per project and build it in to the cost of the project. I like using 6 disk network attached storage in a Raid 6 array. This gives 4 drives of usable storage, so using 12TB NAS drives gives you about 48TB of storage. This 48TB of storage costs around $3000. These drives *do* fail, so budget for replacing a drive per year in a big array.

Thanks for the info! I tried OneDrive before but the upload speeds were horrible. Been looking at Synology but it's still out of my current budget.

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1 hour ago, A_Urquhart said:

But how much does it REALLY matter?

Why is it that the world's best DP's are happy shooting on a camera with a 3.2K image sensor that has to be UP SCALED when recording 4k like is the case with the Alexa Mini, and yet people on forums think a 4K sensor is not good enough?

 

 

Cinema projectors are only 2k so it doesn't matter if you are making hollywood films. If gigantic 8k or 16k digital screens become the norm for home viewing that really changes things. 

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2 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

But how much does it REALLY matter?

Why is it that the world's best DP's are happy shooting on a camera with a 3.2K image sensor that has to be UP SCALED when recording 4k like is the case with the Alexa Mini, and yet people on forums think a 4K sensor is not good enough?

 

 

I agree. It doesn't "REALLY matter". We are to the point where we have plenty of resolution, although better colors and better dynamic range would be nice to have. It is very amusing to me that we are going for crazy high resolutions, then blurring the background via aperture choices, and doing things like adding pro-mist filters to soften the image.

I have a friend that is a well known DP who has put pantyhose and other things over the lenses to soften the look. Super high resolution is a nightmare for some things. There are some things that simply look better if they are soft without all the details (e.g. aging actors & actresses, etc.) Airbrushing a photo is one thing, but airbrushing a video is a whole different planet of costs.

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2 hours ago, Turboguard said:

I'm back with a question about the use of Sony F970 in the new tilta handle. Will these work well with the BMPCC4K?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1468019-REG/watson_b_4238_np_f970_lithium_ion_battery_pack.html/specs

They're so much cheaper than the original Sony's but I like Watson and own a lot of their batteries.

I use the Powerextra brand from Amazon. They are close to the same capacity, but are around $35 for 2. I have over 20 of them and have only had one die in the past year or so. I use them in lights, monitors, and on the P4Ks (and now the P6K).

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16 hours ago, drm said:

I use the Powerextra brand from Amazon. They are close to the same capacity, but are around $35 for 2. I have over 20 of them and have only had one die in the past year or so. I use them in lights, monitors, and on the P4Ks (and now the P6K).

Yeah I remember you saying that, and forgot to thank you for your tips!

 

Does anyone here use the metabones support for the tilta camera? I see two different options on the website and one does say "PL type", which is not what I use but Nikon mount. So should I assume the other tiltaing support bracket is the correct? I have a Speedbooster ultra.

https://tilta.com/shop/lens-adapter-support-bracket/

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1 hour ago, Turboguard said:

Yeah I remember you saying that, and forgot to thank you for your tips!

 

Does anyone here use the metabones support for the tilta camera? I see two different options on the website and one does say "PL type", which is not what I use but Nikon mount. So should I assume the other tiltaing support bracket is the correct? I have a Speedbooster ultra.

https://tilta.com/shop/lens-adapter-support-bracket/

That one looks like the one I use for my Canon .64

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OK, so I finally have the Pocket 4K !

I also have a Zoom F8, which outputs timecode on a BNC. I have some cable/converters into 3.5 mm stereo jack, but I cannot get my p4k to sync up. 

Does anyone know if a direct connection is possible ? It would be great to record "playback" video shots on pr-edited audio tracks. I want to start playback of the audio clips on my Zoom, which would output the correct timecode, and all my shots would be in sync.

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MOZA AirCross 2 (1Kg weight, 3.2Kg payload, the battery up to 12 hours, follow focus, two versions: Standard version with $429, and Professional kit with $499 which has three more items than standard version: Arca-Swiss Quick release Plate, Phone Holder, and iFocus-M, etc), and at 50" it seems BMPCC 4K is supported:

 

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im close to puling the pin  on a speed booster originally i was going to buy one to fit the tokina 28-70 in nikon mount. but thinking about it further im probably better of getting one in ef mount. that way pretty much everything can be adapted via the ef mount. At the moment i have 7 pentax m42 and the tokina. So is there any flaws in my plan

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Just now, leslie said:

im close to puling the pin  on a speed booster originally i was going to buy one to fit the tokina 28-70 in nikon mount. but thinking about it further im probably better of getting one in ef mount. that way pretty much everything can be adapted via the ef mount. At the moment i have 7 pentax m42 and the tokina. So is there any flaws in my plan

I have said lens when I tried it with the Original Pocket.  I got the Viltrox and it seem to work for me.  I've been contemplating on getting the 4K or the 6K.  Yet, once the P4K gets the firmware update, it will have something that would be close to Super16 crop.  Can't wait to see more.

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3 hours ago, leslie said:

im close to puling the pin  on a speed booster originally i was going to buy one to fit the tokina 28-70 in nikon mount. but thinking about it further im probably better of getting one in ef mount. that way pretty much everything can be adapted via the ef mount. At the moment i have 7 pentax m42 and the tokina. So is there any flaws in my plan

I went the same route and order the focal reducer with EF mount. My only advice is getting the zhongyi lens turbo ii if you only intend to use manual focus lens. The optic sits a bit deeper than viltrox and MB so it's compatible with a few more m42 lens IE. helios 44-2 or MIR-1. 

A few quick still from a wedding I shot last weekend with Zhongyi and rokinon 85 1.4

69055273_2343996652302801_8981140202097475584_n.thumb.jpg.fdf342632fec28012bf40f1e98a24674.jpg69250614_978940385831613_1691939724161187840_n.thumb.jpg.12db7b3b126e6f0fd56577c2447525ac.jpg69115159_465024297425873_8153156883515965440_n.thumb.jpg.6818b3683f26a743fa435bb35a6fa848.jpg

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On 8/26/2019 at 5:47 PM, Yannick Willox said:

OK, so I finally have the Pocket 4K !

I also have a Zoom F8, which outputs timecode on a BNC. I have some cable/converters into 3.5 mm stereo jack, but I cannot get my p4k to sync up. 

Does anyone know if a direct connection is possible ? It would be great to record "playback" video shots on pr-edited audio tracks. I want to start playback of the audio clips on my Zoom, which would output the correct timecode, and all my shots would be in sync.

I don't have an F8 but the Pocket 4K does jam sync to LTC.

Just to check that the BNC converter cables aren't an issue, you can test it like I've set it up here with a free LTC app and a simple 3.5mm stereo jack to jack cable.

1375044145_4KTC001.thumb.jpg.525b9badbeb3bc711de119c2df47edb1.jpg

Make sure you then press the screen where the timecode is displayed (as it defaults to showing record time so should be 00:00:00:00) and if the camera is receiving a valid signal the EXT and TC indicators should light up and it should start displaying the incoming timecode.

If they don't light up, you can monitor the signal by selecting the 3.5mm mic input as the source in the Audio setup to make sure its getting in and tweak the level at the phone end if needed.

If it works in that test with a phone then at least you'll know the camera end is setup correctly and then you can start troubleshooting the F8/BNC converter end.

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