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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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5 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

While there seems to be quite a few complaints about BRAW from heavy forum users, I've now worked on two high profile Ad campaigns that have used BRAW and haven't heard a DP complain about it. At the same time, I've spoken first hand to VFX guys and girls that have said that they are really happy with the new codec. 

Here's a few pics of the P4K being used as a B Cam on a recent car ad for those interested.

 

 

20190404_104937.jpg

20190404_104651.jpg

20190404_104442.jpg

What lense is that?

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

What is your opinion about this?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1443625-REG/angelbird_mp_pcc4k_512ek256c_match_pack_for_blackmagic.html

I already own a T5 512GB and I will probably order another CFast Sandisk 128GB and probably a fast SD card.

What is the maximum bitrate i can shoot with those, and are those enough for a full day of docu work?

and this as a NPF solution? https://cvp.com/product/hawk-woods-dv-bm4-power-adaptor

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12 hours ago, matthere said:

Braw 3: 1 dobře drží na srovnání tohoto chlapa.

 

 

 Highlight Roll Off P4K is terrible 😞  (and I'm watching it on my cell phone, no big screen!)  the dynamic range is visibly worse than the old BM

and it is unnecessarily contrasting in skin tones.  I won't sell my old BM! 

until the Fairchild sensor returns!  

I haven't liked anything from the new p4k so far, and unfortunately it will remain so.  

The best thing you can do is buy a BMMCC for a few dollars second hand

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21 minutes ago, tonysss said:

 Highlight Roll Off P4K is terrible 😞  (and I'm watching it on my cell phone, no big screen!)  the dynamic range is visibly worse than the old BM

and it is unnecessarily contrasting in skin tones.  I won't sell my old BM! 

until the Fairchild sensor returns!  

I haven't liked anything from the new p4k so far, and unfortunately it will remain so.  

The best thing you can do is buy a BMMCC for a few dollars second hand

As someone who owns the BMPCC and the P4k I can tell you the highlight roll-off is not terrible on the P4k nor is the DR worse than the BMPCC nor are skintones unnecessarily contrasty - but what do I know as I'm not looking at it via youtube on a cellphone😉

47 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

What is your opinion about this?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1443625-REG/angelbird_mp_pcc4k_512ek256c_match_pack_for_blackmagic.html

I already own a T5 512GB and I will probably order another CFast Sandisk 128GB and probably a fast SD card.

What is the maximum bitrate i can shoot with those, and are those enough for a full day of docu work?

and this as a NPF solution? https://cvp.com/product/hawk-woods-dv-bm4-power-adaptor

CFast is expensive for data so why not just get a 1TB T5 ? I've got a few external battery solutions but the best by far (and the cheapest)is a cheap NPF sled with a dummy battery from amazon/ebay. I  shortened the power lead to tidy it up and mounted the sled to the top of a smallrig 1/2 cage. With a generic F970 battery I get 2.5 hours recording time when writing to the external T5.  

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21 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

but what do I know as I'm not looking at it via youtube on a cellphone

 

but on mobile phone Alexa is still beautiful, it really is not a small screen 😄 

 

I had a P4K loan to make sure it's just not that and it's worse for me than old sensors 😞 

and I don't think I have this opinion myself

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56 minutes ago, tonysss said:

 Highlight Roll Off P4K is terrible 😞  (and I'm watching it on my cell phone, no big screen!)  the dynamic range is visibly worse than the old BM

and it is unnecessarily contrasting in skin tones.  I won't sell my old BM! 

until the Fairchild sensor returns!  

I haven't liked anything from the new p4k so far, and unfortunately it will remain so.  

The best thing you can do is buy a BMMCC for a few dollars second hand

He was using ISO1250 plus Braw.
So basically no highlight dr + plasticky skin.

28 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

As someone who owns the BMPCC and the P4k I can tell you the highlight roll-off is not terrible on the P4k nor is the DR worse than the BMPCC nor are skintones unnecessarily contrasty - but what do I know as I'm not looking at it via youtube on a cellphone😉

By this video it actually is.
But seems like Matteo ignores any trick anyway:

  • shooting cDNG instead of Braw
  • avoid shooting at ISO1250 in contrasty situations
  • grading in another colorspace like ARRI log C or IPP2 for way nicer roll-off (RCM)

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46 minutes ago, deezid said:

He was using ISO1250 plus Braw.
So basically no highlight dr + plasticky skin.

By this video it actually is.
But seems like Matteo ignores any trick anyway:

  • shooting cDNG instead of Braw
  • avoid shooting at ISO1250 in contrasty situations
  • grading in another colorspace like ARRI log C or IPP2 for way nicer roll-off (RCM)

If he's shooting at 1250 ISO then he's loosing a stop of DR as it's the higher gain setting but using either CDNG or BRAW the ISO setting in either range shouldn't make a difference as it's just a metadata tag and is not changing the data like it is in ProRes where it's baked. So I presume you mean avoid using the higher gain setting in contrasty situations. 

58 minutes ago, tonysss said:

 

but on mobile phone Alexa is still beautiful, it really is not a small screen 😄 

 

I had a P4K loan to make sure it's just not that and it's worse for me than old sensors 😞 

and I don't think I have this opinion myself

Yes I must change my HDR 4k reference monitor for a mobile phone when grading. :)

The BMPCC looks different to the P4k for sure and you may for various reason prefer that look but it certainly isn't 'technicaly' better in any measurable way.

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1 hour ago, Shirozina said:CFast is expensive for data so why not just get a 1TB T5 ? I've got a few external battery solutions but the best by far (and the cheapest)is a cheap NPF sled with a dummy battery from amazon/ebay. I  shortened the power lead to tidy it up and mounted the sled to the top of a smallrig 1/2 cage. With a generic F970 battery I get 2.5 hours recording time when writing to the external T5.  

 

For convinience, and the AngelBird match pack (512GB SSD and 256 CFast) is only 399.9$ (more in Europe, but everything is more here).

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I've just discovered the secret to success in this industry -- be very critical of the image made by any camera other than Alexa, and you are instantly a top notch dp in the class of Roger Deakins.

Here is a list of terms to help your complaints sound more legit:

  • Lacks DR (dynamic range)
  • Poor highlight roll off
  • Contrasty
  • Not contrasty
  • Bad motion cadence
  • Too digital
  • Too flat
  • Plasticy
  • Too noisy
  • Too clean
  • Poor focus roll off
  • Macro blocking
  • Micro jitters
  • Sucky suck suck

Now, if those alone aren't getting you the status you deserve, try these ones. They almost sound made up, but no one will ever question you and will repeat them until they become an actual thing.

  • Sharpening halos
  • Pixel fringing
  • Quasar vignette 
  • Noise population ratio
  • Telecentric converters

And if you find you need to take it even further, take a screenshot of footage that you put zero production value in, like a chair in a poorly lit office, magnify 300 percent, and then... wait for it......... wait for it......... draw a friggin arrow to the pixel in question.

I'll have plenty more suggestions in my upcoming mzed class...

 

Seriously, there is a clear world of difference between being a negative Nelly and simply recognizing a camera's pros and cons. ALL CAMERAS have pros and cons. Looking at them in those terms is about making decisions and problem solving , not complaining. 

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13 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Here is a list of terms to help your Now, if those alone aren't getting you the status you deserve, try these ones. They almost sound made up, but no one will ever question you and will repeat them until they become an actual thing.

  • Sharpening halos
  • Pixel fringing
  • Quasar vignette 
  • Noise population ratio
  • Telecentric converters

Add Tachyon polution and Spatial rendering to those!

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41 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

I've just discovered the secret to success in this industry -- be very critical of the image made by any camera other than Alexa, and you are instantly a top notch dp in the class of Roger Deakins.

Here is a list of terms to help your complaints sound more legit:

  • Lacks DR (dynamic range)
  • Poor highlight roll off
  • Contrasty
  • Not contrasty
  • Bad motion cadence
  • Too digital
  • Too flat
  • Plasticy
  • Too noisy
  • Too clean
  • Poor focus roll off
  • Macro blocking
  • Micro jitters
  • Sucky suck suck

Now, if those alone aren't getting you the status you deserve, try these ones. They almost sound made up, but no one will ever question you and will repeat them until they become an actual thing.

  • Sharpening halos
  • Pixel fringing
  • Quasar vignette 
  • Noise population ratio
  • Telecentric converters

And if you find you need to take it even further, take a screenshot of footage that you put zero production value in, like a chair in a poorly lit office, magnify 300 percent, and then... wait for it......... wait for it......... draw a friggin arrow to the pixel in question.

I'll have plenty more suggestions in my upcoming mzed class...

 

Seriously, there is a clear world of difference between being a negative Nelly and simply recognizing a camera's pros and cons. ALL CAMERAS have pros and cons. Looking at them in those terms is about making decisions and problem solving , not complaining. 

You are forgetting 'not as good as the camera it replaced'

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@Jonesy Jones

It might be pretty applicable irony for someone, but actually somebody here post ambitious comparison between Arri and P4K asking for comments and, as it seems, seriously calling to acclamation agreement that they are extremely similar. Me, personally, unfortunately and in spite to my wish, had to admit that for me they don't look so close as I expected, at least at concrete case... judging about traits that I not invented, but found here as usually pointed and quoted as proof of close quality (and, I'm sure, used by yourself also in commenting some other topic). As I understand, most of us here will be glad to the highest degree to buy P4K immediately if we could, but I can't pretend that in given example - and from whatever reason - it really looks to me and on my laptop screen as easy-to-match given Arri side-by-side results. Alas, they don't - but probably I'm wrong and curse just to my own modest angle and capacity of view.

It seems to me that somebody has to be little bit silly not to highly esteem and praise BM achievement with P4K, but why it is so bad if some other (obviously) long time admirers and users of BM products express some kind of reservation over some results - when it is clear that indeed BM makes pretty distinctive decisions? Is it the must for of all us to - being faced with her majesty P4K - use exclusively expressions type of high-suspense emotional connection, of being-professionally-reborn, of inner-mind revolution and revelation, of heavenly adoration and consciousness of turning point in aesthetic history :)

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1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

For convinience, and the AngelBird match pack (512GB SSD and 256 CFast) is only 399.9$ (more in Europe, but everything is more here).

You can get a 1TB T5 for 200Euros or thereabouts. 

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Its the way the complaints are communicated that is driving me nuts. And maybe not yours, honestly I have not been keeping track. But for camera that cost $1,300 that produces the images it does to be criticize with words like sharpening halos and mojo, well, I just can't abide that. 

My point is that, instead of pointing out flaws as though I'm going to receive an award for finding them, to bring them up in terms of how can we solve this or mitigated or, is there another tool I can use in situations where this particular drawback is not an issue. Negativity creates doubt and hold us back. Problem solving inspires us to move forward. This is a great forum when all our minds are solving these issues and creating workarounds for the ones we can't solve. Otherwise we end up pixel peeping and making no progress in the storytelling we all want to do.

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Differences look pretty minimal to me honestly. 

I think its obvious the cameras will look different. The Arri probably has about 3 stops more dynamic range, with a larger sensor and higher bit depth. That said if you are a good colorist and the scene isn't pushing the pockets Dynamic range one should be able to get the cameras looking pretty identical. 

To just throw a LUT on there that isn't even supposed to match an Arri and think it will look the same is silly. There is a reason an Alexa costs 10,000 and up. 

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Why does every new camera that is released inevitably have a “... vs Alexa” video, anyway?

I mean, if any of these cameras were as good as an Alexa, then Roger Deakins would surely buy them and use them in their Hollywood films. Weirdly enough, I have heard, somewhere, that a lot of Hollywood DPs own Fuji cameras as their personal camera...

But seriously, it’s not the end of the world if your sub-2000 dollar camera isn’t as good as an Alexa. Most people believe the best Red doesn’t look as good as an Alexa, so it’s highly unlikely that a $1300 camera will either.

Stop watching and reposting these stupid comparisons and maybe they’ll stop making them.

With that being said, the OG Pocket was often referred to as a Baby Alexa, maybe the P4K will earn that moniker as well one day, but until then, what’s the harm in mentioning a flaw or two? And a strength or two?

4 hours ago, Shirozina said:

but what do I know as I'm not looking at it via youtube on a cellphone😉

Cell phones are the great equalizer and how most people will watch most of your videos, so if a camera’s image looks noticeably better on a cell phone screen, I find, there’s usually something to it. YMMV.

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5 minutes ago, Jim Giberti said:

That's the most depressing thing I've read in a long time.

Is true though, isn't it?

We better get used to it!

Personally, I do not own any social media account, and do not follow any youtuber, but it is just me, I do not form political or advertising campaigns, while FB and Felix Kjellberg do.

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