Jump to content

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K


Recommended Posts

16 minutes ago, matthere said:

Braw 3:1 holds up well on this guy's comparison..

 

 

Thanks for posting... But, frankly, I expected that difference seen on laptop monitor with HD resolution will be less noticeable (i.e. I assumed that comparative qualities of Arri are becoming very noticeable visible just at big screen reproduction)... At least for my eyes, P4K looks waaay harsher in comparison, especially in (second) example in front of the fence where they are at closest matching (in first example Arri was not even properly focused).

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 9k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

My dear erstwhile member can you please stop attacking John Brawley now. I have long since given up on camera forum arguments so might not be completely up on who is right and who is wrong-evil /

I like the pictures. A lot.  This camera will probably replace the micro cinema camera for me as it’s not much bigger and is much easier to work with.  I didn’t feel as strongly about the 4K

What a shame. Who are these "deep state" BMD insiders that are here pushing an agenda ? Myself and Hook.  Who else ?  What do you guys think, there's a plot and conspiracy ?  You guys don't wat t

Posted Images

1 minute ago, matthere said:

They do differ in favour of the Arri for sure, but my thoughts in posting were that the differences are smaller than I imagined they would be, considering the saving.

Actually, I expected that differences will be barely visible on laptop :) (But, of course, my opinion usually is not at all too valuable.) For example, there are some youtube comparisons between GH5(s) and Arri Mini that, for my eyes, somehow manage to make looks even more similar :)

I'd be so glad if the same procedure was applied with CinemaDNG files from P4K...

Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the Natural Rec709 vl LUT did a good job of making the Pocket 4k closer to the look of the Alexia Mini - that said there is a dynamic range difference that is apparent in day light and makes the Pocket  4k  image harder and more contrasty looking to my eye. I actually thought the Pocket 4k competed nicely for the night shot, as either would do IMHO. I think Sage can get even closer once he makes his LUT available for the Pocket 4k.

What I was most impressed with is that BRAW did not seem to show objectionable softness due to the (b)raw "processing", which is of course a contradiction of terms.

All and all BRAW is not what is hold back the Pocket 4k image - it is the sensor's lower dynamic range.  There is a m4/3 Fairchild sensor that would fit nicely in the Pocket 4k body, which offers an additional 1 and 1/2 stop of dynamic range (14.5 stop and dual 11 bit dacs), so hopefully there will be a new m4/3 camera Blackmagic Camera based on the Fairchild sensor in the (near?) future.

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, majoraxis said:

What I was most impressed with is that BRAW did not seem to show objectionable softness due to the (b)raw "processing", which is of course a contradiction of terms.

I'm afraid that there could be some sharpening compensation at work to neutralize such compression softness?

Link to post
Share on other sites

While there seems to be quite a few complaints about BRAW from heavy forum users, I've now worked on two high profile Ad campaigns that have used BRAW and haven't heard a DP complain about it. At the same time, I've spoken first hand to VFX guys and girls that have said that they are really happy with the new codec. 

Here's a few pics of the P4K being used as a B Cam on a recent car ad for those interested.

 

 

20190404_104937.jpg

20190404_104651.jpg

20190404_104442.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, anonim said:

Thanks for posting... But, frankly, I expected that difference seen on laptop monitor with HD resolution will be less noticeable (i.e. I assumed that comparative qualities of Arri are becoming very noticeable visible just at big screen reproduction)... At least for my eyes, P4K looks waaay harsher in comparison, especially in (second) example in front of the fence where they are at closest matching (in first example Arri was not even properly focused).

Not sure what I'm missing but after the grade they're almost identical. Like sure, I can tell, but I'll take the $59,000 savings with the P4k any day. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/2/2019 at 4:27 AM, seanzzxx said:

The calculation is very simple. Let's say you use a 50mm. Your metabones reduces the crop by 0.64. 50*0.64=32.

Your Pocket has a crop factor of (in full sensor width) 1.88. 1.88*32=60mm (rounded down). That's pretty close to the full frame equivalent already, but your new crop is (60/50) 1.2 times. So if for some reason you absolutely NEED to shoot at exactly the same equivalent focal length all the time (instead of just framing your shot slightly different), you can take your full frame lenses and divide them by 1.2. 50/1.2=42 equivalent perspective (rounded up). You could do that for all lenses. You want to match your 14mm on full frame's perspective with the Pocket+speedbooster? 14/1.2=12mm, etc.

 

Does that make sense?

Thank you so much.

So, for obtain any full frame equivalent I need to multiply the lens focal by 0.64 and then by 1.88?

For example for a 24mm

24*0.64=15.36

15.36*1.88=28.8 

Si it's safe to say that the 24mm will act similar to a 30mm lens? Thats awesome! This will be my first time using the Metabones Speedboster ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

While there seems to be quite a few complaints about BRAW from heavy forum users, I've now worked on two high profile Ad campaigns that have used BRAW and haven't heard a DP complain about it. At the same time, I've spoken first hand to VFX guys and girls that have said that they are really happy with the new codec. 

Here's a few pics of the P4K being used as a B Cam on a recent car ad for those interested.

 

 

20190404_104937.jpg

20190404_104651.jpg

20190404_104442.jpg

What lense is that?

Link to post
Share on other sites

What is your opinion about this?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1443625-REG/angelbird_mp_pcc4k_512ek256c_match_pack_for_blackmagic.html

I already own a T5 512GB and I will probably order another CFast Sandisk 128GB and probably a fast SD card.

What is the maximum bitrate i can shoot with those, and are those enough for a full day of docu work?

and this as a NPF solution? https://cvp.com/product/hawk-woods-dv-bm4-power-adaptor

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, matthere said:

Braw 3: 1 dobře drží na srovnání tohoto chlapa.

 

 

 Highlight Roll Off P4K is terrible ?  (and I'm watching it on my cell phone, no big screen!)  the dynamic range is visibly worse than the old BM

and it is unnecessarily contrasting in skin tones.  I won't sell my old BM! 

until the Fairchild sensor returns!  

I haven't liked anything from the new p4k so far, and unfortunately it will remain so.  

The best thing you can do is buy a BMMCC for a few dollars second hand

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, tonysss said:

 Highlight Roll Off P4K is terrible ?  (and I'm watching it on my cell phone, no big screen!)  the dynamic range is visibly worse than the old BM

and it is unnecessarily contrasting in skin tones.  I won't sell my old BM! 

until the Fairchild sensor returns!  

I haven't liked anything from the new p4k so far, and unfortunately it will remain so.  

The best thing you can do is buy a BMMCC for a few dollars second hand

As someone who owns the BMPCC and the P4k I can tell you the highlight roll-off is not terrible on the P4k nor is the DR worse than the BMPCC nor are skintones unnecessarily contrasty - but what do I know as I'm not looking at it via youtube on a cellphone?

47 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

What is your opinion about this?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1443625-REG/angelbird_mp_pcc4k_512ek256c_match_pack_for_blackmagic.html

I already own a T5 512GB and I will probably order another CFast Sandisk 128GB and probably a fast SD card.

What is the maximum bitrate i can shoot with those, and are those enough for a full day of docu work?

and this as a NPF solution? https://cvp.com/product/hawk-woods-dv-bm4-power-adaptor

CFast is expensive for data so why not just get a 1TB T5 ? I've got a few external battery solutions but the best by far (and the cheapest)is a cheap NPF sled with a dummy battery from amazon/ebay. I  shortened the power lead to tidy it up and mounted the sled to the top of a smallrig 1/2 cage. With a generic F970 battery I get 2.5 hours recording time when writing to the external T5.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

but what do I know as I'm not looking at it via youtube on a cellphone

 

but on mobile phone Alexa is still beautiful, it really is not a small screen ? 

 

I had a P4K loan to make sure it's just not that and it's worse for me than old sensors ? 

and I don't think I have this opinion myself

Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, tonysss said:

 Highlight Roll Off P4K is terrible ?  (and I'm watching it on my cell phone, no big screen!)  the dynamic range is visibly worse than the old BM

and it is unnecessarily contrasting in skin tones.  I won't sell my old BM! 

until the Fairchild sensor returns!  

I haven't liked anything from the new p4k so far, and unfortunately it will remain so.  

The best thing you can do is buy a BMMCC for a few dollars second hand

He was using ISO1250 plus Braw.
So basically no highlight dr + plasticky skin.

28 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

As someone who owns the BMPCC and the P4k I can tell you the highlight roll-off is not terrible on the P4k nor is the DR worse than the BMPCC nor are skintones unnecessarily contrasty - but what do I know as I'm not looking at it via youtube on a cellphone?

By this video it actually is.
But seems like Matteo ignores any trick anyway:

  • shooting cDNG instead of Braw
  • avoid shooting at ISO1250 in contrasty situations
  • grading in another colorspace like ARRI log C or IPP2 for way nicer roll-off (RCM)
Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, deezid said:

He was using ISO1250 plus Braw.
So basically no highlight dr + plasticky skin.

By this video it actually is.
But seems like Matteo ignores any trick anyway:

  • shooting cDNG instead of Braw
  • avoid shooting at ISO1250 in contrasty situations
  • grading in another colorspace like ARRI log C or IPP2 for way nicer roll-off (RCM)

If he's shooting at 1250 ISO then he's loosing a stop of DR as it's the higher gain setting but using either CDNG or BRAW the ISO setting in either range shouldn't make a difference as it's just a metadata tag and is not changing the data like it is in ProRes where it's baked. So I presume you mean avoid using the higher gain setting in contrasty situations. 

58 minutes ago, tonysss said:

 

but on mobile phone Alexa is still beautiful, it really is not a small screen ? 

 

I had a P4K loan to make sure it's just not that and it's worse for me than old sensors ? 

and I don't think I have this opinion myself

Yes I must change my HDR 4k reference monitor for a mobile phone when grading. :)

The BMPCC looks different to the P4k for sure and you may for various reason prefer that look but it certainly isn't 'technicaly' better in any measurable way.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...