Jump to content
Yurolov

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

Recommended Posts

EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
10 hours ago, Jim Giberti said:

That's the most depressing thing I've read in a long time.

 

9 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Is true though, isn't it?

We better get used to it!

 

i think thats just hilarious.

the whole forum is about making the best footage possible from some pricey cameras (alexia)  to not so pricey (bmp4k) and others. People are talking 4k,  6k, 8k grading like a hollywood blockbuster and now we are comparing results or watching it on a phone. Is that some irony or what ?. I really cant be bothered watching stuff on my phone. Dont get me wrong, phones are great  and i use the camera quite a bit for pictures for work and personal stuff. i also have about half my cd collection on a card in the phone to listen to. But to watch stuff online, i'll spend a whole extra minute and turn the phone into hotspot mode, fire up the laptop and watch it on that or the desktop at home. i personally dont find phone screens immersive or captivating enough (if immersive is the right word).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Buddy, I see you've lost the whole point of their comments though. Nothing related to footage. The way people live inside their tiny screens instead. Lack of multiple perspective(s) to mention only a part of the equation, that's their major concern I entirely subscribe, that's the most I can add actually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

 

 

I've just discovered the secret to success in this industry -- be very critical of the image made by any camera other than Alexa, and you are instantly a top notch dp in the class of Roger Deakins.

Here is a list of terms to help your complaints sound more legit:

  • Lacks DR (dynamic range)
  • Poor highlight roll off
  • Contrasty
  • Not contrasty
  • Bad motion cadence
  • Too digital

......

You forgot Mojo!!

17 hours ago, anonim said:

@Jonesy Jones

It might be pretty applicable irony for someone, but actually somebody here post ambitious comparison between Arri and P4K asking for comments and, as it seems, seriously calling to acclamation agreement that they are extremely similar. Me, personally, unfortunately and in spite to my wish, had to admit that for me they don't look so close as I expected, at least at concrete case... judging about traits that I not invented, but found here as usually pointed and quoted as proof of close quality (and, I'm sure, used by yourself also in commenting some other topic). As I understand, most of us here will be glad to the highest degree to buy P4K immediately if we could, but I can't pretend that in given example - and from whatever reason - it really looks to me and on my laptop screen as easy-to-match given Arri side-by-side results. Alas, they don't - but probably I'm wrong and curse just to my own modest angle and capacity of view.

It seems to me that somebody has to be little bit silly not to highly esteem and praise BM achievement with P4K, but why it is so bad if some other (obviously) long time admirers and users of BM products express some kind of reservation over some results - when it is clear that indeed BM makes pretty distinctive decisions? Is it the must for of all us to - being faced with her majesty P4K - use exclusively expressions type of high-suspense emotional connection, of being-professionally-reborn, of inner-mind revolution and revelation, of heavenly adoration and consciousness of turning point in aesthetic history :)

I agree.  Comparing a Corolla to a Ferrari requires some accommodation of pricing.

15 hours ago, mercer said:

Why does every new camera that is released inevitably have a “... vs Alexa” video, anyway?

I mean, if any of these cameras were as good as an Alexa, then Roger Deakins would surely buy them and use them in their Hollywood films. Weirdly enough, I have heard, somewhere, that a lot of Hollywood DPs own Fuji cameras as their personal camera...

But seriously, it’s not the end of the world if your sub-2000 dollar camera isn’t as good as an Alexa. Most people believe the best Red doesn’t look as good as an Alexa, so it’s highly unlikely that a $1300 camera will either.

Stop watching and reposting these stupid comparisons and maybe they’ll stop making them.

With that being said, the OG Pocket was often referred to as a Baby Alexa, maybe the P4K will earn that moniker as well one day, but until then, what’s the harm in mentioning a flaw or two? And a strength or two?

Cell phones are the great equalizer and how most people will watch most of your videos, so if a camera’s image looks noticeably better on a cell phone screen, I find, there’s usually something to it. YMMV.

I like the "X vs Alexa" because it serves as a good reference for the state of the art.  It also does some small good to educate people that are new to this space and think that their $3k camera setup should be the best in the world.  

I also like that it (can) spawn some interesting conversations around various cameras having strengths and weaknesses.  A cellphone is a lot more 'professional' a camera when the shot required is wide angle and in plenty of light with deep DOF, for example.  That knowledge is useful to those people who respond to the "$100k movie camera" clickbait titles.

We could definitely do with more nuanced debate around things though, sadly it seems that the world has become more polarised and succumbed to more black-or-white thinking now that globalisation is really kicking in.  

4 hours ago, leslie said:

 

i think thats just hilarious.

the whole forum is about making the best footage possible from some pricey cameras (alexia)  to not so pricey (bmp4k) and others. People are talking 4k,  6k, 8k grading like a hollywood blockbuster and now we are comparing results or watching it on a phone. Is that some irony or what ?. I really cant be bothered watching stuff on my phone. Dont get me wrong, phones are great  and i use the camera quite a bit for pictures for work and personal stuff. i also have about half my cd collection on a card in the phone to listen to. But to watch stuff online, i'll spend a whole extra minute and turn the phone into hotspot mode, fire up the laptop and watch it on that or the desktop at home. i personally dont find phone screens immersive or captivating enough (if immersive is the right word).

Watching on a phone is actually more meaningful than you might think.  

The differences between 1:1 RAW and 12:1 RAW are visible, even through YT compression which must be hundreds-to-one, which tells you something about the nature of compression and signal processing through a signal path.

It's the same with resolution, although most phones are 1080p displays now.

Besides, most camera tests are completely useless at worst, or just a reflection of how well they were graded.

Content and story loose neither dynamic range nor resolution when viewed on a phone...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, kye said:

We could definitely do with more nuanced debate around things though, sadly it seems that the world has become more polarised and succumbed to more black-or-white thinking now that globalisation is really kicking in.

This.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice to see a decent zoom lens on the Pocket 4k in the Phil Bloom video. To me the shooting with a good zoom lens allows me to use more of the language of film.

A couple of things that Phil could have mentioned, but it would have taken away from his pitch to sell multiples of each Fujinon zoom lens, is that you can get a m4/3 to E-mount adapter ring, though you would probably want to shoot no rails to make sure it is absolute stable.

Also, there are adapters that will allow Phil to go from a B4 broadcast lens to 35mm for mirrorless cameras. They do eat a number of stops of light, but it can be done and is particularly useful if you are looking for a long parfocal zoom lens.

For adapting B4 lens to the Pocket 4k the light loss is less and you could do it with an Abakus 132 and Olympus 1.4x m4/3 adapter for for slightly less that 2 stops of light loss, so  your 1.8f B4 would be a 3.32f over probably 60% of the zoom range. So 20x B4 Zoom lens would be a 12x parfocal zoom lens with 3.32f constant aperture... but there is the is issue of the sensor glass thickness, which means it is not a idea optical solution, but still many may find it useful slightly stopped down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Nice shots, especially the first two.

Why 4:3?

Thanks Andrew!

Those are shots for a documentary featuring a lot on a single subject, so I guess that is the main reason.

Other than that, I'm a big fan of the work of the DP Robbie Ryan who has shot some fabulous stuff in the aspect ratio in my opinion! I believe he was a fan of the original pocket too...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Noticed a large clump of sensor dust when I pointed camera at a computer monitor stopped all the way down.  

What approach are you folks using for sensor cleaning on the Pocket 4k?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, CSolo said:

Noticed a large clump of sensor dust when I pointed camera at a computer monitor stopped all the way down.  

What approach are you folks using for sensor cleaning on the Pocket 4k?  

Didn't need it yet. AFAIK the usual one available for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/30/2019 at 4:14 PM, webrunner5 said:

I have never said they are not a good, well maybe even great camera. It is that I am not into their more modern look, putting up with all the hassle with batteries, SSD's, etc I would rather have a GH5s that looks pretty much like the same output that works right out of the box. Now I have to admit that the new bRaw has a better, older style look to it, But I really don't want a camera like that that I have to have a Frankenstein rig for it. I might as well just buy a canon C100 and be done with it. I am like Mercer, I really don't Need 4K. Anything I shoot is just for the fun of it, not some magical pinnacle I have to reach. I am glad you are happy with it, but I am still not going to buy one.

I had a 6 camera event shoot yesterday. I used 3 of my GH5s cams and 3 of my P4K cams. Both cams are great, but they are quite different. The GH5s is a good bit better in low light (a stop or two). The GH5(s) cams are a good bit less "fiddly". You can pull them out and just shoot. I can even send the GH5 with a good lens with my wife (a great editor, but not a great camera person) and she can capture usable video footage. I can even set it to mostly auto mode for a novice user and I might get some usable video footage.

With the P4K's I have to worry about power and lots of other little things (like will the audio work right). The menus are very easy to use, but there are lots of things to think about while using it. I would really hesitate giving it to an inexperienced user. With all that said, the footage is lovely.

For my use, I find that I am using the P4K's more and more. I have even toyed with the idea of selling some of my GH5s cams. I am also seriously considering purchasing one of the new Blackmagic Ursa G2 cameras. I wouldn't have even considered that a few months back. The P4Ks are definitely more than you might expect.

Earlier today, I even found myself wishing that the GH5s footage had been BRAW! :) Weird, I know...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Not weird at all! Can the Pocket 4k match the GH5S with noise reduction applied? 

Yes, I think so. The noise reduction in Davinci Resolve is very good. I have used ISOs 10000 & 12800 a couple of times and have gotten usable footage after processing. I am surprised at how well the footage cleans up.

Every once in a while, you are forced to use crazy high ISOs. For example, yesterday, I had a presenter from a giant Silicon Valley tech company that refused to allow the theater stage lights on during her presentation. She claimed the lights would blind her and she wouldn't be able to see the audience. So, I had someone on a stage, with a projector screen behind her and no light on her, other than splash from a few lights on the audience. I had to run ISO 12,800 with f/1.2 lenses and was still about 1/2 stop underexposed. She was so dark that she was basically a shadow to your naked eye. Of course, she also didn't want to wear a lav. She insisted that she could be heard fine without one. At least I won that battle and got my lav on her during the presentation.

The footage from that event is certainly worse than I would have liked, but at least it is usable. If I had only had access to normal cameras, the footage would have been completely unusable. At some point, I will do some comparisons, but my use tells me that the GH5s is a stop or so better in low light than the P4K, before correcting in Resolve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, drm said:

Yes, I think so. The noise reduction in Davinci Resolve is very good. I have used ISOs 10000 & 12800 a couple of times and have gotten usable footage after processing. I am surprised at how well the footage cleans up.

Every once in a while, you are forced to use crazy high ISOs. For example, yesterday, I had a presenter from a giant Silicon Valley tech company that refused to allow the theater stage lights on during her presentation. She claimed the lights would blind her and she wouldn't be able to see the audience. So, I had someone on a stage, with a projector screen behind her and no light on her, other than splash from a few lights on the audience. I had to run ISO 12,800 with f/1.2 lenses and was still about 1/2 stop underexposed. She was so dark that she was basically a shadow to your naked eye. Of course, she also didn't want to wear a lav. She insisted that she could be heard fine without one. At least I won that battle and got my lav on her during the presentation.

The footage from that event is certainly worse than I would have liked, but at least it is usable. If I had only had access to normal cameras, the footage would have been completely unusable. At some point, I will do some comparisons, but my use tells me that the GH5s is a stop or so better in low light than the P4K, before correcting in Resolve.

Yeah I would guess because the GH5 uses more NR straight out of camera. 

That is a sucky situation. Backdrop was probably super blown out haha. Some people are really lame to work with. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep up the good work Andrew. 

I hadn't realised that about those groups of youtubers that review cameras being selected by the companies but your right. They all tend to be glowing reviews now that I think about it whatever the camera was. I've seen more than a few by iPhondo for example and always very positive reviews with some token comment here and there to appear unbiased. 

As for Trolls and Brawley dont loose sleep over that lot. The launch sample footage was total crap (not the cameras fault). I have my Pocket 4K and absolutely love it. A very capable camera that fits the spot for those of us that want DSLR size but want a pro camera. 

Cheers,

Simon Bailey

Colourberry.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I can see a 0.95 lens in your future, maybe even on a Speedbooster lol.

two pages back the was a video shot by moonlight. i wonder if that's how it was accomplished with a 0.95 and speedbooster. I googled supermoon and they can be as much as 30% brighter and 14%  larger. So maybe a combination of all the above would make it doable perhaps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...