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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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8 hours ago, JordanWright said:

Ive never noticed any in my footage but I could be missing it.

Same here and with the previous BMPCC. Some subjects may show it but for most it's a non issue and is easily fixed with an IR cut filter.

9 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

If you don't need auto focus, a speedbooster is a cheap easy fix to the crop issue. Although I am not sure why a 1.8 crop is a big issue in the first place. I'd imagine its noisy if you come from the DSLR full frame world. If you are used to shooting with cinema cameras or M43 I doubt it though.

The big dynamic range advantage seems to be when shooting in RAW, especially CDNG. There seems to be a lot of highlight information that something like the GH5 doesn't have.

There is no more DR shooting RAW over ProRes - the P4k simply has more DR than the GH5. 

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2 hours ago, Shirozina said:

There is no more DR shooting RAW over ProRes

I have to disagree from my experience with BM cameras - not strictly taking notion of DR (that after all debates seems to me too vague), but simply true RAW vs PR HQ looks better or made such impression-feel even at first glance. Not day and night, but there is a visual difference as I can see. Of course, my eyes are not at all ultimate judge, it might be result of autosuggestion - so rather call for everyone to try and compare. (I don't know how BRAW stay in comparison.)

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I tested ProRes vs CDNG when I first got my P4k  last year and I could see no DR advantage to RAW. Infact unless you used NR in resolve the usable DR on RAW was less. Other differences between RAW and Pro Res exist and have been debated at length but both codecs get the the full DR from the sensor.

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10 hours ago, MeanRevert said:

Yeah, I've shot in bright sunlight so need a lot of ND.  It's there so IR Cut or that SLR Magic IE filter.

If I use an ND filter (which I am planning to do anyway) is there less IR, or it is completely irrelevant?

If I have to use ND, do I have to put ond of those aforementioned filters before or after the ND?

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13 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

If I use an ND filter (which I am planning to do anyway) is there less IR, or it is completely irrelevant?

If I have to use ND, do I have to put ond of those aforementioned filters before or after the ND?

1. I'm afraid there is more IR with ND filter.

2. I think it is irrelevant where to put IR filter.

(If you in aesthetic choice chase for little bit of vintage look, IR pollution actually might be useful.)

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On 4/22/2019 at 2:36 AM, seanzzxx said:

Wait, you know you're not going to get the full dynamic range on rec.709 recordings, right?

They were all recorded in Film mode and then converted to Rec. 709.

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6 hours ago, Kisaha said:

If I use an ND filter (which I am planning to do anyway) is there less IR, or it is completely irrelevant?

If I have to use ND, do I have to put ond of those aforementioned filters before or after the ND?

IR is always there but when you put on an ND, it cuts light except it doesn't cut IR. So when you do that, IR is more easily seen by the sensor. 

I use the SLR image enhancer and put it in front of the ND. 

There's a post somewhere with John Brawley saying that the Pocket 4K has an IR Cut but it's slight as to not affect image quality. So BM is leaving it up to us to decide. 

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8 hours ago, Shirozina said:

I tested ProRes vs CDNG when I first got my P4k  last year and I could see no DR advantage to RAW. Infact unless you used NR in resolve the usable DR on RAW was less. Other differences between RAW and Pro Res exist and have been debated at length but both codecs get the the full DR from the sensor.

I think the 12bit color depth gives the perception of more DR. Take a shot of a tree in CDNG and ProRes HQ and the texture of the tree bark in Raw will look more realistic and defined due to the extra shades of color. I also notice it with it skin as well. That isn’t measurable DR but it definitely looks better to the eyes.

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Hi Guys. Thinking of getting the P4K but only have EF glass. Obviously the new metabones seems like a safe bet but don’t really want to spend that much right now on an adapter. Are there any decent non glass adapters? Any feedback greatly appreciated!

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10 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I haven't used the Pocket 4k only the OG pocket. With Highlight recovery in resolve it gets more dynamic range. 

Can you post some side by side examples as this has not been my experience unless the Resolve has misinterpreted ProRes as Video range and clipped the highlights.

12 hours ago, mercer said:

I think the 12bit color depth gives the perception of more DR. Take a shot of a tree in CDNG and ProRes HQ and the texture of the tree bark in Raw will look more realistic and defined due to the extra shades of color. I also notice it with it skin as well. That isn’t measurable DR but it definitely looks better to the eyes.

Can you post some side by side examples of this as I've not seen it in my tests.

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1 hour ago, Shirozina said:

Can you post some side by side examples as this has not been my experience unless the Resolve has misinterpreted ProRes as Video range and clipped the highlights.

Just to note or remind: in case of additional (and crucial) highlithts recovery possibility (that thebrothersthre3 mentioned in post) there's no need for examples: with RAW you can do it on rec.709 timeline, with ProRes you can't. As simple scenario, shot same scene with both, intentionally making clipped highlights. With ProRes you can't bring them back. With CDNG do such settings in Resolve CameraRaw menu

Decode Using: Clip

WB: As Shot

Color Space:  Rec.709

Gamma: Gamma 2.4

... and picks of highlights are coming back from void (and such view has metaphysical impact on me), so you can further mold distribution of DR as you wish.

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4 hours ago, anonim said:

Just to note or remind: in case of additional (and crucial) highlithts recovery possibility (that thebrothersthre3 mentioned in post) there's no need for examples: with RAW you can do it on rec.709 timeline, with ProRes you can't. As simple scenario, shot same scene with both, intentionally making clipped highlights. With ProRes you can't bring them back. With CDNG do such settings in Resolve CameraRaw menu

Decode Using: Clip

WB: As Shot

Color Space:  Rec.709

Gamma: Gamma 2.4

... and picks of highlights are coming back from void (and such view has metaphysical impact on me), so you can further mold distribution of DR as you wish.

You are saying that if there is clipping at the sensor level with RAW then you can fix this in Resolve? This would be highly worthy of posted examples.  

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21 hours ago, MeanRevert said:

IR is always there but when you put on an ND, it cuts light except it doesn't cut IR. So when you do that, IR is more easily seen by the sensor. 

I use the SLR image enhancer and put it in front of the ND. 

There's a post somewhere with John Brawley saying that the Pocket 4K has an IR Cut but it's slight as to not affect image quality. So BM is leaving it up to us to decide. 

i might investigate this. i have a couple of inferred filters, a 680 and 720 nm from memory and one ir modified digital still camera. i should be able to fit something to the front of the bmp4k and see how responsive the camera is to inferred.  its already a given that it would have an ir filter as pretty much all cameras have ir cut because, well infered red looks odd or weird even peculiar in photos. not that i have anything against inferred. i think the issue is our eyes aren't accustomed to seeing inferred and when we do it tends to stand out. if its a sunny day i'll try to get some footage with and with out filters then you can judge for yourselves

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1 hour ago, Shirozina said:

You are saying that if there is clipping at the sensor level with RAW then you can fix this in Resolve? This would be highly worthy of posted examples.  

I believe that what is being referred to is "super whites" where the output signal is above the white point by default, but can be brought back as the data is in the file.  The XC10 does this.  I suspect that if you're recording in prores then the conversion that happens may clip those super whites and they wouldn't be recoverable.

I could be wrong, but I've seen super whites myself, and this clipping behaviour is very similar to the way that still images are processed with RAW / JPG files.

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@Shirozina okay let’s backtrack a bit... your footage is noisy? Why? I thought the P4K sensor was supposed to be pretty clean?

In fact, there are only two reasons why it would be noisy...

1. You’re underexposing it. Are you using ETTR?

2. You’re not shooting at base iso.

As far as DR between raw and ProRes... I think I may have some side by side examples from some old Micro or Pocket footage... I’ll have to check my drives. Although, I would think the extra bit depth with Raw would make the idea of “perceived DR” pretty simple to understand.

As far as Highlight Recovery I’m Resolve... have you ever used the Raw Panel? Bring in Raw footage that ETTR’d and you should see it completely overexposed with the Rec709 default... change it to BM Film and your waveform will drop but in many instances the highs will still be flat (slightly clipped) click Highlight Recovery and you get the top end back... it’s one of the best features in the Raw Panel.

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