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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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2 hours ago, kinswick said:

On Monday I got a backorder status: still out of stock email from B&H. Then on Wednesday it shipped and it'll arrive on Monday. Preordered at the end of June. 

I ordered (or preordered?) a DEC Vari-ND just now from the US Aputure store. Had to pick Paypal as the payment method to advance to checkout, but I think I could have switched to credit on the checkout page. I've been on shoots with the FS5 and the variable ND behind the lens is super handy.

I preordered from CVP at May 1st and it looks like there still are a couple of hundred people before me. 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
12 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

From me ?

I haven't really spent enough time with it to say anything even remotely definitive about it.

What I will say from a positive perspective is that I really like the menu system, I think they've made really good choices with the physical controls and them including false colour (especially when you have it switchable on the function key) offsets the uncertainty one might have about setting accurate exposure on a less than ideal screen and without an EVF.

It is not without its quirks though but I'll need to test it a lot more to understand their impact or whether some of them are just me being stupid ;) 

Yes the menus are fantastic, the general control layout - I did not realise this until today when I finally put it in my hand - is lovely. Much nicer than I expected. Even the polycarbonate plastic construction doesn't bother me. If anything it's good, because it makes for a very lightweight construction. This is a big camera by mirrorless standards but a TINY and light on by pro video standards, let alone cinema RAW proportions.

Yes there are baffling decisions going on but a lot of common sense too. I still do not like Blackmagic's launch strategy and initial shipping quantities, it is ridiculous to be tormented for months with a mix of teasing and social media hype - I almost went mad - but believe me it is worth the wait. Again like BTM says, far from perfect, or without quirks - but it is different to anything else I own and a worthy upgrade from the original - in fact it is SIGNIFICANTLY better than that first camera in every way. Something I did not realise until I actually turned up.

I am going to have so many words to eat from this thread, I'll probably choke to death.

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55 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yes the menus are fantastic, the general control layout - I did not realise this until today when I finally put it in my hand - is lovely. Much nicer than I expected. Even the polycarbonate plastic construction doesn't bother me. If anything it's good, because it makes for a very lightweight construction. This is a big camera by mirrorless standards but a TINY and light on by pro video standards, let alone cinema RAW proportions.

Yes there are baffling decisions going on but a lot of common sense too. I still do not like Blackmagic's launch strategy and initial shipping quantities, it is ridiculous to be tormented for months with a mix of teasing and social media hype - I almost went mad - but believe me it is worth the wait. Again like BTM says, far from perfect, or without quirks - but it is different to anything else I own and a worthy upgrade from the original - in fact it is SIGNIFICANTLY better than that first camera in every way. Something I did not realise until I actually turned up.

I am going to have so many words to eat from this thread, I'll probably choke to death.

I didn’t really care about the “outrage”, just glad you (just like me) got it in your hands finally. It’s a fantastic piece of tech that fulfills more than just my needs to shoot video. How did you end up getting it by the way, I don’t know if I missed it in this thread? Did BMD cave?

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On 10/30/2018 at 4:07 AM, seanzzxx said:

For people getting their hopes up, this is slightly misleading. My experience has been the following:

The 18-35 will vignette even on a .71x ('ultra') speedbooster until about 20mm in DCI 4K (only barely and not worth mentioning in Ultra HD). It's sort of usable but the vignette is definitely there across the whole left and right side and it's relatively severe.

It will basically be unusable on full frame on my A7RII until 35mm, at which point you might as well use the lighter, better, brighter 35mm 1.4 ART.

 

On 10/30/2018 at 7:52 AM, Shirozina said:

Not seen any problem with my Viltrox .71 and yes it will be unusable on full frame as it's an APS-C lens.

 

On 10/30/2018 at 8:14 AM, seanzzxx said:

That's weird, because I definitely am. Are you shooting at the full sensor width? I'll get some screen caps later today :)

Also my comment about full frame was in reference to Emanuel saying the lens is usable at full frame except for the wide end while my experience is that that's not really true.

 

On 10/30/2018 at 9:08 AM, Shirozina said:

Just checked now (without the 1:2.40 frame guides) and yes there is a very slight corner shading wide open at the wide end but I wouldn't call it a problem and nothing that can't be fixed in the grade. Maybe on the Metabones it's different though?

 

On 10/30/2018 at 12:50 PM, Emanuel said:

 

 

 

 

These are tests conducted on Sigma with a XL version where is (in the comments section) explicitly written there's no vignetting from about 22-24mm on going along his GH5 for that setup, obviously:

 

And here is one where the same user tests tap-to-focus feature on the same camera coupled to the same focal reducer to those who think it might not be possible to go with AF on P4K (touchscreen focus is an autofocus feature BTW, whether you use it or not ; ) 

 

On the other hand, here are these samples which follow your feeling @seanzzxx -- very welcome to the discussion BTW (part II):

6c37f4bf4c33433b9ce441f19b6c5fa3

source: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58134184

 

Another one on a7R:

a9342971978d4b87bb7e82c51f2b469b

source: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57637470

 

Here's a 3rd one which proves in the real world the results may vary from that 23-25mm (to stand Daniel's 22-24mm statement) mark though (on a 5DII now) -- count on some distortion anyways:

http://thurtlepower.com/dorsetweddingphotographerblog/sigma-18-35mm-dc-hsm-mini-review-and-first-impressions/

 

Zak Hermiller, 1 day ago:

"The Sigma 18-35mm and the Sigma 50-100 with the Metabones XL speed booster. Its the stronger .64x one so its vignette a little in the corners. Its unusable at 18mm":

 

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On 11/1/2018 at 6:39 PM, DBounce said:

Oh look, it's another slowmo video.

Who cares? As long as he enjoys doing it, then who gives a shit? So what there's a ton of them? They are fun to shoot and edit for a lot of people. There will be plenty more non-slow motion projects coming out in the near future. 

The fact that he'd get even less noise if he was shooting at 24fps should say a fair amount about this camera. 

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3 hours ago, BenEricson said:

What ISO are most people shooting? 

I’m sticking to 400 and 3200 and using nds to adjust for my setting - so far, it seems to be working out well. 

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Even the polycarbonate plastic construction doesn't bother me. If anything it's good, because it makes for a very lightweight construction.

And when you have Sigmas 18-35, it’s plenty heavy enough to stay stable when handheld.

glad you got the camera and are able to put things behind and not look at it through sour eyes. Looking forward to your review.

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4 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Indeed... nuff said, Dual ISO talks : -)

image.thumb.png.c21157465a254c81bda16c6bd426893e.png

This is a stupid test. DR goes down ( quite significantly) as you ramp up gain from zero ( Ramp up ISO from base) so any overexposure is going to hit highlight clipping faster - DOH!

Who in any semi-competent use of this or any camera is going to overexpose by 3 stops anyway and expect to recover highlights esp highlights in skintones? In a real world situation the clipping highlights on skintones would have been obvious from the zebras or scopes so the user would have brought the exposure down.

As ISO gain reduces DR the real world test would be a more ETTR based exposure method ( esp with RAW) and the differences between cameras and/ or ISO's would be to look at the shadow recovery.

Repeat - this is not a test that in anyway represents a real world situation to anyone competent or even remotely aware of how to expose footage correctly.

Due to the DR limitations when you move away from base ISO I just avoid it as much as possible - increase you lighting or open up the aperture or use a faster lens. The P4k has very respectable DR at base ISO but start to deviate from it and you are quickly into the kind of DR you get with a mobile phone! 

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The interesting fact with this sensor (that applies to GH5S as well) is the X1.2 form factor with the widest possible speed booster. I believe this is good enough for most people, FF lovers and - nothing ever in focus - people included.

The work flow around this fact is the most interesting part.

Which lenses work well and which ones with limitations, and what limitations are those?

The Fuji MK lens could be a great combo, imagine if one could have the X-T3 and the P4K as their other cam and can put the MK on both cameras, that brings another dimension to the whole "X-T3 vs P4K" conversation!

The other part of the process is the run n gun approach. A couple of native zooms with IS and touch AF are mandatory. If one owns the X-T3 or any other modern hybrid, can use that other cam for r n gunning or very light and fast turn around projects anyway 

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for french people

to summ up he really loves the image quality but hates the plastic build and the power management

he had many issues with the camera going 20% to shutting off with no warning what so ever, the result was the loss of the file he was shooting

 

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seems he has issues with all his batteries and he has canon ones, actually his first move was to remove the "crap" battery delivered with it to replace it with a canon one.

at the ends he ends up saying ot os a really good deal for the price.

also says that it is strange to offer "raw" wether this is not real raw as you buy a cheap camera to run so heavy files that will cost a ton in hardware.

 

first camera showed is the black magic

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55 minutes ago, thephoenix said:

seems he has issues with all his batteries and he has canon ones, actually his first move was to remove the "crap" battery delivered with it to replace it with a canon one.

at the ends he ends up saying ot os a really good deal for the price.

also says that it is strange to offer "raw" wether this is not real raw as you buy a cheap camera to run so heavy files that will cost a ton in hardware.

 

first camera showed is the black magic

Is it compatible with the dji ronin-s?

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1 hour ago, thephoenix said:

strange to offer "raw" wether this is not real raw as you buy a cheap camera to run so heavy files that will cost a ton in hardware.

They are not that heavy ( you get 3 options) and what ton of hardware does he mean?. Any rig that can handle 4k high compression video files should be able to handle RAW and even the camera media is dirt cheap if you use an ext SSD esp when compared to internal cards needed for other cameras. Also you are not forced to use RAW as it's an option.

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4 hours ago, Shirozina said:

This is a stupid test. DR goes down ( quite significantly) as you ramp up gain from zero ( Ramp up ISO from base) so any overexposure is going to hit highlight clipping faster - DOH!

Who in any semi-competent use of this or any camera is going to overexpose by 3 stops anyway and expect to recover highlights esp highlights in skintones? In a real world situation the clipping highlights on skintones would have been obvious from the zebras or scopes so the user would have brought the exposure down.

As ISO gain reduces DR the real world test would be a more ETTR based exposure method ( esp with RAW) and the differences between cameras and/ or ISO's would be to look at the shadow recovery.

Repeat - this is not a test that in anyway represents a real world situation to anyone competent or even remotely aware of how to expose footage correctly.

Due to the DR limitations when you move away from base ISO I just avoid it as much as possible - increase you lighting or open up the aperture or use a faster lens. The P4k has very respectable DR at base ISO but start to deviate from it and you are quickly into the kind of DR you get with a mobile phone! 

Well with this thing having Dual ISO some of those thoughts are out the window. 3200 is 3 stops over base and it is nearly as good as 400. Whole new beast this camera is to the average person. Going to take a lot of trial and error to figure all of it out.

Surely the GH5s owners have some experience, even the EVA1, Varicam owners on what works the best.

 

 

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