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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K


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On 10/30/2018 at 4:07 AM, seanzzxx said:

For people getting their hopes up, this is slightly misleading. My experience has been the following:

The 18-35 will vignette even on a .71x ('ultra') speedbooster until about 20mm in DCI 4K (only barely and not worth mentioning in Ultra HD). It's sort of usable but the vignette is definitely there across the whole left and right side and it's relatively severe.

It will basically be unusable on full frame on my A7RII until 35mm, at which point you might as well use the lighter, better, brighter 35mm 1.4 ART.

 

On 10/30/2018 at 7:52 AM, Shirozina said:

Not seen any problem with my Viltrox .71 and yes it will be unusable on full frame as it's an APS-C lens.

 

On 10/30/2018 at 8:14 AM, seanzzxx said:

That's weird, because I definitely am. Are you shooting at the full sensor width? I'll get some screen caps later today :)

Also my comment about full frame was in reference to Emanuel saying the lens is usable at full frame except for the wide end while my experience is that that's not really true.

 

On 10/30/2018 at 9:08 AM, Shirozina said:

Just checked now (without the 1:2.40 frame guides) and yes there is a very slight corner shading wide open at the wide end but I wouldn't call it a problem and nothing that can't be fixed in the grade. Maybe on the Metabones it's different though?

 

On 10/30/2018 at 12:50 PM, Emanuel said:

 

 

 

 

These are tests conducted on Sigma with a XL version where is (in the comments section) explicitly written there's no vignetting from about 22-24mm on going along his GH5 for that setup, obviously:

 

And here is one where the same user tests tap-to-focus feature on the same camera coupled to the same focal reducer to those who think it might not be possible to go with AF on P4K (touchscreen focus is an autofocus feature BTW, whether you use it or not ; ) 

 

On the other hand, here are these samples which follow your feeling @seanzzxx -- very welcome to the discussion BTW (part II):

6c37f4bf4c33433b9ce441f19b6c5fa3

source: https://***URL removed***/forums/post/58134184

 

Another one on a7R:

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source: https://***URL removed***/forums/post/57637470

 

Here's a 3rd one which proves in the real world the results may vary from that 23-25mm (to stand Daniel's 22-24mm statement) mark though (on a 5DII now) -- count on some distortion anyways:

http://thurtlepower.com/dorsetweddingphotographerblog/sigma-18-35mm-dc-hsm-mini-review-and-first-impressions/

 

Zak Hermiller, 1 day ago:

"The Sigma 18-35mm and the Sigma 50-100 with the Metabones XL speed booster. Its the stronger .64x one so its vignette a little in the corners. Its unusable at 18mm":

 

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My dear erstwhile member can you please stop attacking John Brawley now. I have long since given up on camera forum arguments so might not be completely up on who is right and who is wrong-evil /

I like the pictures. A lot.  This camera will probably replace the micro cinema camera for me as it’s not much bigger and is much easier to work with.  I didn’t feel as strongly about the 4K

What a shame. Who are these "deep state" BMD insiders that are here pushing an agenda ? Myself and Hook.  Who else ?  What do you guys think, there's a plot and conspiracy ?  You guys don't wat t

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On 11/1/2018 at 6:39 PM, DBounce said:

Oh look, it's another slowmo video.

Who cares? As long as he enjoys doing it, then who gives a shit? So what there's a ton of them? They are fun to shoot and edit for a lot of people. There will be plenty more non-slow motion projects coming out in the near future. 

The fact that he'd get even less noise if he was shooting at 24fps should say a fair amount about this camera. 

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3 hours ago, BenEricson said:

What ISO are most people shooting? 

I’m sticking to 400 and 3200 and using nds to adjust for my setting - so far, it seems to be working out well. 

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Even the polycarbonate plastic construction doesn't bother me. If anything it's good, because it makes for a very lightweight construction.

And when you have Sigmas 18-35, it’s plenty heavy enough to stay stable when handheld.

glad you got the camera and are able to put things behind and not look at it through sour eyes. Looking forward to your review.

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4 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Indeed... nuff said, Dual ISO talks : -)

image.thumb.png.c21157465a254c81bda16c6bd426893e.png

This is a stupid test. DR goes down ( quite significantly) as you ramp up gain from zero ( Ramp up ISO from base) so any overexposure is going to hit highlight clipping faster - DOH!

Who in any semi-competent use of this or any camera is going to overexpose by 3 stops anyway and expect to recover highlights esp highlights in skintones? In a real world situation the clipping highlights on skintones would have been obvious from the zebras or scopes so the user would have brought the exposure down.

As ISO gain reduces DR the real world test would be a more ETTR based exposure method ( esp with RAW) and the differences between cameras and/ or ISO's would be to look at the shadow recovery.

Repeat - this is not a test that in anyway represents a real world situation to anyone competent or even remotely aware of how to expose footage correctly.

Due to the DR limitations when you move away from base ISO I just avoid it as much as possible - increase you lighting or open up the aperture or use a faster lens. The P4k has very respectable DR at base ISO but start to deviate from it and you are quickly into the kind of DR you get with a mobile phone! 

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The interesting fact with this sensor (that applies to GH5S as well) is the X1.2 form factor with the widest possible speed booster. I believe this is good enough for most people, FF lovers and - nothing ever in focus - people included.

The work flow around this fact is the most interesting part.

Which lenses work well and which ones with limitations, and what limitations are those?

The Fuji MK lens could be a great combo, imagine if one could have the X-T3 and the P4K as their other cam and can put the MK on both cameras, that brings another dimension to the whole "X-T3 vs P4K" conversation!

The other part of the process is the run n gun approach. A couple of native zooms with IS and touch AF are mandatory. If one owns the X-T3 or any other modern hybrid, can use that other cam for r n gunning or very light and fast turn around projects anyway 

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seems he has issues with all his batteries and he has canon ones, actually his first move was to remove the "crap" battery delivered with it to replace it with a canon one.

at the ends he ends up saying ot os a really good deal for the price.

also says that it is strange to offer "raw" wether this is not real raw as you buy a cheap camera to run so heavy files that will cost a ton in hardware.

 

first camera showed is the black magic

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55 minutes ago, thephoenix said:

seems he has issues with all his batteries and he has canon ones, actually his first move was to remove the "crap" battery delivered with it to replace it with a canon one.

at the ends he ends up saying ot os a really good deal for the price.

also says that it is strange to offer "raw" wether this is not real raw as you buy a cheap camera to run so heavy files that will cost a ton in hardware.

 

first camera showed is the black magic

Is it compatible with the dji ronin-s?

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1 hour ago, thephoenix said:

strange to offer "raw" wether this is not real raw as you buy a cheap camera to run so heavy files that will cost a ton in hardware.

They are not that heavy ( you get 3 options) and what ton of hardware does he mean?. Any rig that can handle 4k high compression video files should be able to handle RAW and even the camera media is dirt cheap if you use an ext SSD esp when compared to internal cards needed for other cameras. Also you are not forced to use RAW as it's an option.

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4 hours ago, Shirozina said:

This is a stupid test. DR goes down ( quite significantly) as you ramp up gain from zero ( Ramp up ISO from base) so any overexposure is going to hit highlight clipping faster - DOH!

Who in any semi-competent use of this or any camera is going to overexpose by 3 stops anyway and expect to recover highlights esp highlights in skintones? In a real world situation the clipping highlights on skintones would have been obvious from the zebras or scopes so the user would have brought the exposure down.

As ISO gain reduces DR the real world test would be a more ETTR based exposure method ( esp with RAW) and the differences between cameras and/ or ISO's would be to look at the shadow recovery.

Repeat - this is not a test that in anyway represents a real world situation to anyone competent or even remotely aware of how to expose footage correctly.

Due to the DR limitations when you move away from base ISO I just avoid it as much as possible - increase you lighting or open up the aperture or use a faster lens. The P4k has very respectable DR at base ISO but start to deviate from it and you are quickly into the kind of DR you get with a mobile phone! 

Well with this thing having Dual ISO some of those thoughts are out the window. 3200 is 3 stops over base and it is nearly as good as 400. Whole new beast this camera is to the average person. Going to take a lot of trial and error to figure all of it out.

Surely the GH5s owners have some experience, even the EVA1, Varicam owners on what works the best.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

They are not that heavy ( you get 3 options) and what ton of hardware does he mean?. Any rig that can handle 4k high compression video files should be able to handle RAW and even the camera media is dirt cheap if you use an ext SSD esp when compared to internal cards needed for other cameras. Also you are not forced to use RAW as it's an option.

his point is why spending so little money in a camera to shoot raw when it will cost you 5k to process it (he means computer, storage...)

 

48 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

Is it compatible with the dji ronin-s?

just on comments under the video they say it is, which is great news

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8 minutes ago, thephoenix said:

his point is why spending so little money in a camera to shoot raw when it will cost you 5k to process it (he means computer, storage...)

 

 

But It doesn't cost £5k  to process and store unless you are starting video from scratch but then you can say you need to spend extra to buy an editing machine and storage space for any camera you buy.

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5 hours ago, Shirozina said:

This is a stupid test. DR goes down ( quite significantly) as you ramp up gain from zero ( Ramp up ISO from base) so any overexposure is going to hit highlight clipping faster - DOH!

Who in any semi-competent use of this or any camera is going to overexpose by 3 stops anyway and expect to recover highlights esp highlights in skintones? In a real world situation the clipping highlights on skintones would have been obvious from the zebras or scopes so the user would have brought the exposure down.

As ISO gain reduces DR the real world test would be a more ETTR based exposure method ( esp with RAW) and the differences between cameras and/ or ISO's would be to look at the shadow recovery.

Repeat - this is not a test that in anyway represents a real world situation to anyone competent or even remotely aware of how to expose footage correctly.

Due to the DR limitations when you move away from base ISO I just avoid it as much as possible - increase you lighting or open up the aperture or use a faster lens. The P4k has very respectable DR at base ISO but start to deviate from it and you are quickly into the kind of DR you get with a mobile phone! 

I understand your point but, I don't find this test useless as matter of fact. ETTR, that is, expose to the right is the way to go with this camera. 

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9 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

 ETTR, that is, expose to the right is the way to go with this camera. 

Only if what you're shooting is unconnected street or nature scenes and you're using it like a stills camera.  Otherwise, the best practice for this camera is to expose for the subject, as you would with any cinema camera.  

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9 hours ago, BenEricson said:

Crazy. I hope this is why there is so much harsh highlight clipping in most of the videos I have seen. Is there an ISO200? What ISO are most people shooting? 

Both dual native 400 and 3200 ISO coupled to ETTR and you are just fine. Have no worries anymore about it : -)

20 minutes ago, helium said:

Only if what you're shooting is unconnected street or nature scenes and you're using it like a stills camera.  Otherwise, the best practice for this camera is to expose for the subject, as you would with any cinema camera.  

No complaints about, circumstances vary. It will also depend on your shooting style and last but not least, subjects to shoot for sure. Obviously. But, if you want to protect your highlights, you'll have enough DR room from your clean shadows to go on ETTR : -)

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