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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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7 minutes ago, mercer said:

With the original they were at the mercy of the sensor but with the P4K its a specific crop they created, so one would assume they chose the traditional sensor size...

I find this mode very intriguing because it opens up a slew of lens options that could soften the look of the P4K. I don't know if you've seen any footage from the Alexa S16 mode but it's pretty gorgeous.

I appreciate the sentiment. Weirdly enough, I haven't found one sample from the new S16 mode online... I would have thought it would be a pretty big deal since a lot of members at bmcuser were petitioning for that mode since the camera was announced.

Let me go and dig out the worst lens in the world and put it on my Pocket4K

Back in 10

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4 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Let me go and dig out the worst lens in the world and put it on my Pocket4K

Back in 10

Should we expect a Fujian P4K sample shot?

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41 minutes ago, mercer said:

With the original they were at the mercy of the sensor but with the P4K its a specific crop they created, so one would assume they chose the traditional S16mm size... maybe @CaptainHook knows?

I find this mode very intriguing because it opens up a slew of lens options that could soften the look of the P4K. I don't know if you've seen any footage from the Alexa S16 mode but it's pretty gorgeous.

I appreciate the sentiment. Weirdly enough, I haven't found one sample from the new S16 mode online... I would have thought it would be a pretty big deal since a lot of members at bmcuser were petitioning for that mode since the camera was announced.

Also, is the S16 crop mode only in BRaw or is it also available for ProRes?

And will regular SDXC cards work in that mode?

Maybe the resolution will give it away?  If it's RAW then we can just work out what percentage of the normal resolution it is and then apply that to the normal crop factor of the P4K?

5 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

 Computar 12.5-75mm f1.2

Oh I don't know...  Those new fangled computars are gonna run the world one day boy!!

OK, from the BM page, the P4K sensor is 10mm wide, and that is 4096 pixels.  

I think the new mode is the "2688 x 1512 (2.6K 16:9) up to 120 fps" one (also from P4K specs page), which means that it's using an area of the sensor that is 6.56mm wide.

Referring back to this image again:

5a7d398f8f34de0001ef4be5_Sensor-chart-8_

a FF sensor has a width of 24mm, so therefore the crop is 24/6.56 = 3.66

I used the width as that stays constant when you choose different aspect ratios, so it's easier to work out.   Did I do that right?

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20 minutes ago, kye said:

Did I do that right?

It may be, but from your calculations, the crop seems too large, but I am not the right person to ask about such things.

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35 minutes ago, mercer said:

Should we expect a Fujian P4K sample shot?

OK, this is a quick and dirty test so ignore the framing and white balance differences !

So, the Computar 12.5-75mm f1.2 isn't strictly a Super16mm lens but we can use it as a guide to sensor coverage versus the OG BMPCC.

This is it at 12.5mm with the Pocket4K in 4K DCI so you can see how much its covering.

P4K_4K_DCI.thumb.jpg.dc37ec1b83ca39cfcb5202b9fa8afe1e.jpg

This is it in the 2.6K 16:9 mode

P4K_2.6.thumb.jpg.901c0ae67f5f9c53513105a4f87e1b7a.jpg

And this is it on the OG BMPCC

BMPCC.thumb.jpg.d36a9687046ad5ab59ed75c36bc97e53.jpg

If you look at the vignetting, you can see that the BMPCC has a fraction more than the Pocket4K so the conclusion is that a lens worked for you on the BMPCC it will be fine on the Pocket4K in the 2.6K 16:9 mode as it appears to have a marginally bigger crop.

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5 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

If you look at the vignetting, you can see that the BMPCC has a fraction more than the Pocket4K so the conclusion is that a lens worked for you on the BMPCC it will be fine on the Pocket4K in the 2.6K 16:9 mode as it appears to have a marginally bigger crop.

Yeah that is a marginal difference, so if I had to guess, a 3x crop (give or take) sounds about right. 

That shot is in BRaw, right? Did you notice any more noise in the S16 mode? And finally, will SD cards work in that mode or do you need CFast/SSD?

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1 minute ago, mercer said:

Yeah that is a marginal difference, so if I had to guess, a 3x crop (give or take) sounds about right. 

That shot is in BRaw, right? Did you notice any more noise in the S16 mode? And finally, will SD cards work in that mode or do you need CFast/SSD?

No, they are dng stills.

I've attached them if you want to have a closer look.

Just pressed record in all BRAW modes with a Sandisk Extreme 128  v30 U3 10 SD card and it didn't explode.

Archive.zip

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31 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

No, they are dng stills.

I've attached them if you want to have a closer look.

Just pressed record in all BRAW modes with a Sandisk Extreme 128  v30 U3 10 SD card and it didn't explode.

Archive.zip 17.47 MB · 0 downloads

Thanks!!! Now when I can find a new one, with the software, I may have to give it a try. I wish BM would offer a fire sale on the P4K like they did with the OG.

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38 minutes ago, mercer said:

Thanks!!! Now when I can find a new one, with the software, I may have to give it a try. I wish BM would offer a fire sale on the P4K like they did with the OG.

I wonder whether the deluge of used/and or discounted P4Ks that many (not including me by the way ;) ) thought would happen as people "upgraded" to the P6K ever materialised?

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43 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I wonder whether the deluge of used/and or discounted P4Ks that many (not including me by the way ;) ) thought would happen as people "upgraded" to the P6K ever materialised?

If anything i've seen the 6k used at crazy low prices, even CVP have had a few between £1600-1800. 

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2 hours ago, mercer said:

It may be, but from your calculations, the crop seems too large, but I am not the right person to ask about such things.

This was quick math, but seems accurate:

1.89873417721 (4k DCI)

2.02531645569 (4k UHD)

2.70042194092 (2.8k Anamorphic)

2.89330922242 (2.6k 16:9)

4.05063291139 (HD)

Round the numbers as you please.

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23 minutes ago, JordanWright said:

If anything i've seen the 6k used at crazy low prices, even CVP have had a few between £1600-1800. 

Seems plentiful stock of them new as well, unlike the Pocket4K.

As someone who has been working his bollocks off creating an intricate workaround to get remote focus over bluetooth working for the 6K this doesn't please me at all !

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1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

I wonder whether the deluge of used/and or discounted P4Ks that many (not including me by the way ;) ) thought would happen as people "upgraded" to the P6K ever materialised?

I've hardly seen a deal worth pursuing on eBay. At least, not if you're looking for the DR license as am I. I'm not swimming in cash, but I'm not risking $100 in savings on a used camera.

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6 minutes ago, billdoubleu said:

I've hardly seen a deal worth pursuing on eBay. At least, not if you're looking for the DR license as am I. I'm not swimming in cash, but I'm not risking $100 in savings on a used camera.

Yep, they do seem to be holding up very well both in terms of price and interest.

Meanwhile, the thread about the 6K one here has been relatively dormant over the past four months.

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5 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Yep, they do seem to be holding up very well both in terms of price and interest.

Meanwhile, the thread about the 6K one here has been relatively dormant over the past four months.

I absolutely love the images the 6k is capable of producing. Other than the fact I only own MFT lenses, it just doesn't suit my needs/ desires currently. Neither does the 4k model, but I want a DR Studio license and it seems too cheap not to buy the camera as well!

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On 1/10/2020 at 5:02 PM, BTM_Pix said:

Yep, they do seem to be holding up very well both in terms of price and interest.

Meanwhile, the thread about the 6K one here has been relatively dormant over the past four months.

I said that immediately on the P6K forum back then.

9 of August 2019: "4) this camera in no way will sell more than the P4K."

And you replied "If those people now come back I'm guessing it might will be to the 6K and that the 6K will have a longer life so might well outsell the 4K in the end."

Then I said, among others: "P4K is so cheap already that I doubt we will see a significant difference in price anytime soon."

15 of August:"

..and suddenly the P6K thread is dead silent!

Do you remember what was going on when the P4K was announced?

The P6K is an excellent and very reasonably priced option for 6K and EF aficionados, but the price and features of P4K spoiled us all for ever!"

P4K is da thing!

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On 1/10/2020 at 11:39 PM, BTM_Pix said:

I wonder whether the deluge of used/and or discounted P4Ks that many (not including me by the way ;) ) thought would happen as people "upgraded" to the P6K ever materialised?

dont think many have lost out on the p4k as some people suspect. Im thinking most of us are pretty happy with it, no need to make a leap for a negligibly improved  p6k boat, sailing from a port near never never land🙄

dare i say it, the p6k doesn't trounce the p4k as expected ?  Not sure what bmd's thinking was to release two models so close together, probably caused more angst than anything but its water under the bridge now

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