Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[Matthew Capowski]

On 5/19/2020 at 10:46 AM, Yannick Willox said:

I still prefer my older fourthirds lenses on the P4k ... Even the ois seems to have less quirks.

How are you able to get your Four Thirds lenses to work on the P4K? I have an Olympus Four Thirds 11-22mm F2.8-3.5 lens and a Chinese 43-m43 adapter.  It works fine on my Panasonic bodies but the lens won't work on my Pocket 4K.  What adapter are you using?

[Yannick Willox]

15 hours ago, Matthew Capowski said:

How are you able to get your Four Thirds lenses to work on the P4K? I have an Olympus Four Thirds 11-22mm F2.8-3.5 lens and a Chinese 43-m43 adapter.  It works fine on my Panasonic bodies but the lens won't work on my Pocket 4K.  What adapter are you using?

Panasonic DMW-MA1

[shiroKfilm]

We shot an indie musical feature earlier this year on the BMPCC6K in Tokyo. It was the best choice for our budget range $40,000 ~ $50,000 and our DP just ended up buying it as opposed to renting. Other gear was Nikkor Lenses and TIffen Black Pro Mist 1/4, plus a lot of smoke machine use, and grain addition in post to try to a achieve something approaching a 'film look'. The trailer is much lower res than the finished film but we're super pleased with the results: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKF0YxqqEiY&t=2s 

[SteveV4D]

Blaxkmagic have uploaded an update to Resolve that adds Gen 5 support for Windows users.  I've been having a little play with it using footage I shot over the last week and I'm liking the results.  The flatter curve starting point does help.

[JordanWright]

34 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Blaxkmagic have uploaded an update to Resolve that adds Gen 5 support for Windows users.  I've been having a little play with it using footage I shot over the last week and I'm liking the results.  The flatter curve starting point does help.

Totally agree, you can get decent images now by just using the Contrast and Saturation slider. I usually colour manage but for people who like grading from scratch, it feels much more natural! Im really hoping they update the cameras to gen5 

[Henchman]

So, where's the best place in DaVinci to set the color science? 

[MeanRevert]

45 minutes ago, Henchman said:

So, where's the best place in DaVinci to set the color science? 

RAW tab. You need latest Beta Resolve release.

[Emre Unlenen]

On 2/13/2019 at 4:09 AM, drm said:

For everyone that hasn't seen a BMPCC4K freak out, I finally managed to record mine in action. The camera did this several times prior to the firmware upgrade to 6.1. I had hoped that the firmware upgrade would fix the screen glitching problem. Unfortunately, as I was setting up for a shoot the other day, the camera freaked out again with the 6.1 firmware. I managed to grab my phone and record before the camera did anything harmful, like formatting the T5 drive again.

Note that the camera was turned on and not being touched in any way when this started. You can tell when this problem is starting because it is like someone is tapping the screen to change the focus point. It will eventually open the menus and start going crazy, as you can see in this video. This happens with no apparent pattern. It has done it on the last two shoots. But, after restarting the camera, it didn't do it again, despite the camera running one of the days for 5-6 hours straight.

I spoke with BM about it yesterday and I am sending the camera in for repair tomorrow. The problem is apparently uncommon, as the BM tech support person said that he had never heard of it happening before my report. I know that someone on here commented that their camera had also had this problem. I think he said it was a bad digitizer. If your camera does this, contact BM right away.

Good luck everyone!

 

Hello, I have faced the same problem today. May I ask how you have solved your problem? Thank you in advance

 

[Brian Williams]

On 8/22/2020 at 8:34 AM, Emre Unlenen said:

Hello, I have faced the same problem today. May I ask how you have solved your problem? Thank you in advance

 

He said he had to send the camera in for repair.

[Kisaha]

On 7/23/2020 at 5:53 PM, anonim said:

Sorry for delay, I've found that the best price/quality ratio have Rocolax filters, say

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROCOLAX-77mm-Optical-UV-IR-CUT-filter-UV-IR-Blocking-Filter-for-camera-lens/173253274325?hash=item2856b32ad5:g:AhsAAMXQUShQ8nk1

sorry for bringing that back, but I can't seem to find this filter.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Hoya-77mm-Cut-Screw-Filter/dp/B006OIJTIG/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=ir-cut+filter&qid=1600627370&sr=8-3

is this ok to buy? any other suggestion? 

When do you people use your IR filters? and can you use it with an ND or Polarizing one?

[Francisco Rios]

Hi community

Can anyone help me about speedbooster xl to Nikon ? On p4k we can use the m4/3 version and of course the special made exclusive for p4k . Is there so much difference between both on the camera ? Best

[nickname]

On 9/20/2020 at 8:44 PM, Kisaha said:

sorry for bringing that back, but I can't seem to find this filter.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Hoya-77mm-Cut-Screw-Filter/dp/B006OIJTIG/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=ir-cut+filter&qid=1600627370&sr=8-3

is this ok to buy? any other suggestion? 

When do you people use your IR filters? and can you use it with an ND or Polarizing one?

I have used the hoya ir cut filter with vari nd and diffusion. Works flawlessly. Use it on the red one as well. 

For the pocket i have upgraded to the rawlite olpf. If you just want ir filtration the hoya is perfect. 

[Kisaha]

19 hours ago, nickname said:

I have used the hoya ir cut filter with vari nd and diffusion. Works flawlessly. Use it on the red one as well. 

For the pocket i have upgraded to the rawlite olpf. If you just want ir filtration the hoya is perfect. 

I didn't know about the OLPF filter, very interesting. 

Price in EUR € 375,- (excluding 21% VAT, excluding shipping). so expensive though! 

Maybe I will stick to the Hoya for now, as much as I would prefer an internal solution.

[anonim]

On 9/20/2020 at 8:44 PM, Kisaha said:

sorry for bringing that back, but I can't seem to find this filter.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Hoya-77mm-Cut-Screw-Filter/dp/B006OIJTIG/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=ir-cut+filter&qid=1600627370&sr=8-3

is this ok to buy? any other suggestion? 

When do you people use your IR filters? and can you use it with an ND or Polarizing one?

Sorry, being busy for a while... but luckily mr nickname answered/suggested better than I could. I use also Hoya IRcut with Hoya ND without any issue, but I don't use polarizing filter. Rocolax has the same quality, just cheaper, friend of mine bought for me in UK.

I had  OLPF filter with first Pocket just because I bought it with already installed one - extremely helped with moire problem that luckily doesn't exists with P4K.   

[pixelpreaching]

On 5/1/2020 at 5:44 PM, Andrew Reid said:

I beg to differ.

SIgma Fp full frame RAW output to SSD

Panasonic S1 V-LOG 10bit 422

Nikon Z6 ProRes RAW

And arguably GH5S codec is pretty good looking.

I was reading the most recent 5 pages of this thread and this made me literally laugh out loud

Andrew, you have this weird thing against Blackmagic that I think is personal.

Things you complained about on the BMPCC4K (no IBIS, no AF, no tilt screen, no EVF) are all literally true for the Sigma Fp.

Not all cameras are made for vloggers and hybrid shooters. Cinema cameras fall into that category. It's ignorant to expect a cinema camera to conform to the same expectations as a stills camera that shoots video.

None of the cameras you listed output better IQ nor do they have the ergonomics or user interface of a proper cinema camera (a la BMPCC).

Please, for the sake of your readers - myself included, get over your grudge against Blackmagic. It's childish.

[josdr]

On 2/10/2021 at 7:09 AM, pixelpreaching said:

I was reading the most recent 5 pages of this thread and this made me literally laugh out loud

Andrew, you have this weird thing against Blackmagic that I think is personal.

Things you complained about on the BMPCC4K (no IBIS, no AF, no tilt screen, no EVF) are all literally true for the Sigma Fp.

Not all cameras are made for vloggers and hybrid shooters. Cinema cameras fall into that category. It's ignorant to expect a cinema camera to conform to the same expectations as a stills camera that shoots video.

None of the cameras you listed output better IQ nor do they have the ergonomics or user interface of a proper cinema camera (a la BMPCC).

Please, for the sake of your readers - myself included, get over your grudge against Blackmagic. It's childish.

Ι would hardly classify people that do not like BM gear as ignorant as to what constitutes a cine camera. There are well established problems with reliability, bad quality control, subpar sensors etc that do not help its case for indy use.

We are indeed thankful that it has disrupted the market with its pocket cameras that are affordable when compared to the ridiculous pricing of 'High end cine cameras", i.e mirrorless cameras with their menus on physical buttons.

You overstate the case for the BMPcc iq.. I do not know about the 6k one, but my X-t3 looks way better than the 4k one with better skin tone to boot. If one listens to the you tubers of course RAW iz alwayz better because sliders! Pushing everything around , highlights and dark spots alike. 

The sigma FP was a very brave endeavour by Sigma and despite its shortcomings I am waiting for the FP II.

This is not to support Andrew, not that he needs my support, or to totally contradict you. I am adding to the discussion. I have been tempted to buy one, I have handled footage from 4k ones (I do love Resolve) but they have certain problems to address.

[TomTheDP]

16 hours ago, josdr said:

Ι would hardly classify people that do not like BM gear as ignorant as to what constitutes a cine camera. There are well established problems with reliability, bad quality control, subpar sensors etc that do not help its case for indy use.

We are indeed thankful that it has disrupted the market with its pocket cameras that are affordable when compared to the ridiculous pricing of 'High end cine cameras", i.e mirrorless cameras with their menus on physical buttons.

You overstate the case for the BMPcc iq.. I do not know about the 6k one, but my X-t3 looks way better than the 4k one with better skin tone to boot. If one listens to the you tubers of course RAW iz alwayz better because sliders! Pushing everything around , highlights and dark spots alike. 

The sigma FP was a very brave endeavour by Sigma and despite its shortcomings I am waiting for the FP II.

This is not to support Andrew, not that he needs my support, or to totally contradict you. I am adding to the discussion. I have been tempted to buy one, I have handled footage from 4k ones (I do love Resolve) but they have certain problems to address.

I think it just depends what you look for in an image. The XT3 codec is much thinner than 12 bit BRAW and just doesn't have the same amount of color information. Won't always be noticeable of course and if you like the Fuji color science that's a huge advantage. 

[pixelpreaching]

17 hours ago, josdr said:

Ι would hardly classify people that do not like BM gear as ignorant as to what constitutes a cine camera. There are well established problems with reliability, bad quality control, subpar sensors etc that do not help its case for indy use.

We are indeed thankful that it has disrupted the market with its pocket cameras that are affordable when compared to the ridiculous pricing of 'High end cine cameras", i.e mirrorless cameras with their menus on physical buttons.

You overstate the case for the BMPcc iq.. I do not know about the 6k one, but my X-t3 looks way better than the 4k one with better skin tone to boot. If one listens to the you tubers of course RAW iz alwayz better because sliders! Pushing everything around , highlights and dark spots alike. 

The sigma FP was a very brave endeavour by Sigma and despite its shortcomings I am waiting for the FP II.

This is not to support Andrew, not that he needs my support, or to totally contradict you. I am adding to the discussion. I have been tempted to buy one, I have handled footage from 4k ones (I do love Resolve) but they have certain problems to address.

You're not wrong at all - though I disagree about the IQ of the BMPCC's. But, The X-T3 and X-T4 footage is VERY nice too. Not as much latitude for editing and h265 isn't as pleasant to work with, and there are some other differences, but I do love the footage they produce.

I wasn't saying that people who don't like BM are ignorant about cinema cameras. I was saying people keep wanting stills camera features in cinema cameras, which *is* ignorant to what/how cinema cameras are meant to be used for. And I was pointing out Andrew's inconsistencies in his complaints against BM cameras (the Sigma Fp was FULL of reliability issues too).

And I agree about the Fp - it felt like the beta version of a product, but it was a very unique and original product, and I too am very excited for the Fp II (or whatever it'll be called).

[josdr]

On 3/2/2021 at 6:52 AM, pixelpreaching said:

You're not wrong at all - though I disagree about the IQ of the BMPCC's. But, The X-T3 and X-T4 footage is VERY nice too. Not as much latitude for editing and h265 isn't as pleasant to work with, and there are some other differences, but I do love the footage they produce.

 

We more or less agree on your other points so I will not comment on them but I would like to offer my opinion as to editing latitude and h265.  

Nowadays you can very easily edit h265 files with a mid-low tier Nvidia gpu that has a dedicated nvenc hardware decoder/encoder. They are very cheap all things considering so I am always amused by this" h265 is difficult to edit" for a reasonably powerful system that someone editing video would have.( I am talking 800-1000 euros here, not rigs costing thousands of your favourite hard currency ) 

I have a 1660s which is very affordable and I can easily edit 4k footage on a 1080p timeline without needing caching or proxies.. If my grade is too heavy just using Resolve's automatic caching makes it buttery smooth once again. 

If you like Macs, the new M1 chip makes short work of h265 editing as well. 

As per editing latitude. Do we really need that much latitude. Maybe the pocket 4k sliders go a notch more but are you going to do such heavy correction if you even have a rudimentary idea how to expose and what the general colour feel of your scene is? I think it is more the mentality that some more latitude may be there rather than actually needing it.

I was of that mentality as well and I am just an amateur dabbling in a hobby that I like and is quite expensive but as I progress I care less about the latest and the greatest and especially "YouTube reviews" of "Arri like" products and more on what I can learn in using my gear properly and manipulating the scene I am in. I am not saying that you are of that mentality, It is just a point :).

Just for fun I tried to take my X-T3 footage to very different colouring interpretations than what was actually shot and really It has quite a lot of latitude ..  You may counterclaim about RAW, but proper 10 bit is not really lacking at all for even a moderately capable DP 

P.S Sigma deserves praise and support

[SteveV4D]

Editing H264/5 Vs BRAW is like night and day.  Sure I can edit them on a 4K timeline and yes I can use auto cache, but with BRAW, I can apply a lot of grading and still get smooth playback.  I don't have to transcode the footage or do anything extra, just edit it as is.  H264/5 are deliverable codecs and regardless of system, I find nothing beneficial except a low file size, and frankly even that's not a great advantage given the various compression levels offered in BRAW.

As for latitude, much greater.  A much better and intuitive white balance control that is more consistent within the RAW controls if Resolve.  H264/5 footage clipped remains clipped, not so with BRAW, where you have greater latitude to bring in new detail in the highlights and shadows otherwise clipped.  Its not proper RAW, but that 12 bit is useful to me.  Do I need that extra latitude, absolutely. 

I still work with a lot of H264/5 footage.  I'm not saying it's not possible to get a decent grade, or that it's a major pain to work with; just that BRAW for me is a lot better.  I find more pleasure editing and colour grading now I'm working with it than I did before.  Its nice to have a system where the camera, codec and editing software are so intune with each other.