TomTheDP

I do, I just like to complain about IQ, during my restless nights

Blind tests aren't of much use. The zakuto blind tests says that a GH1 and 35mm film are equal. So why didn't camera development stop there? It would indicate 10 bit log, 4k, high bitrate, and anything beyond 8 stops of dynamic range, doesn't really matter. Cameras aren't developed or sold on blind tests. I don't think any professional is choosing a camera based on blind tests either. They have certainly offered no use to me. You can argue IQ has nothing to do with making a pleasing looking image. That is definitely true in many ways. But it has nothing to do with marketing. You can say that marketing is all bullshit. I'd agree with that. 8k is useless for 99% of people yet it is a great buzzword for marketing. You are saying though that 14 bit recording is useless and blind tests somehow prove this. If you are simply trying to say that 14 bit isn't marketable, that could be true. I am not a marketing specialist. But camera companies don't use blind tests to market or else they would all be out of business. In my experience when you actually use a camera on production and work with it through post, then you see a difference. There isn't really much debate there. Can a film look good that isn't shot on a cinema camera? Yes of course. But cameras like ARRI and RED are industry favored by pretty much any DP you would ask. To me DP's are usually the last people to fall for marketing hype. These people see images constantly from production all the way to the finished product. ARRI isn't favored because of internet blind tests, they are favored because they actually make production and post workflow much easier. I'd love it if my S1 could give me the same image as an Alexa. But from my experience it just doesn't. If you want a good test of a camera shoot 100 different scenes in all different scenarios, time restraints, lighting conditions, different sized crews, and then color correct and grade all of the shots and scenes. Do that with 5 different cameras and than compare them all. Well that couldn't be put in a little 5 minute youtube video. Stuff that is actually helpful can't be compressed into a little youtube video. Experience gotten from months of shooting and in post gives one a good idea of what matters. Anyways 14 bit plus capture, even if it is just the readout is the way forward to better IQ imo. The Alexa shooting in 422 is still using a 14 bit readout. That is partially why it looks way better than cameras that are shooting 12 bit linear raw, which is a marketing scam. 12 bit linear raw really doesn't give you any more information to work with than a good 10 bit ALL-I. The advantage is it sometimes gets around the horrid internal processing many cameras do to their 10 bit options for some reason. But it also often reveals how shitty consumer sensors are in the shadows, bad colored noise and banding that is normally hidden by heavy noise reduction. The Alexa has a 14 bit readout regardless of if you shoot 422 or 444 or RAW. Anyways I am just expressing my disappointment in camera development. I would extend that disappointment to the high end cameras as well. RED is partially to blame in my opinion. They pushed the whole high resolution band wagon that consumer cameras jumped on. 10 years later and the best camera in the world the Alexa 35 only shoots 4k, while RED releases cameras for 1/2 what they did their previous line-up, with sensors that can't even match ARRI's 5 year old cameras. 13 years ago the Alexa came onto the market, the camera that replaced film essentially. 13 years later it's still the best sensor on the market, only surpassed by ARRI's own Alexa 35. It's unfortunate resolution got put on the forefront of development instead of color depth, which also leads to increased dynamic range. Am I saying the 5D MK3 is the pinnacle of image quality? No I am not. But it was capable of giving you a high bitrate 14 bit 1080p image. That was 11 years ago. Why can't we have 14 bit RAW 3K-4K in a small prosumer camera 11 years later. We get the same releases with a MK2 slapped onto it, with micro improvements. Very annoying. Now you can tell me these are first world problems and I will gladly agree. I am in between projects right now and don't have any kids, so I have the time. And if this forum is not the place to vent about the BS that camera companies do than maybe I am just very confused.

I wouldn't say slim, the Magic Lantern community was pretty large. People went through the trouble of making a hack and dealing with the insecurities of using it. People still use it to this day. 10 bit and 12 bit RAW are selling points, so I am not sure why 14 bit wouldn't be. Side by side comparisons aren't particularly useful imo. Compile hours and hours of footage from a project, being able to compare tons of different lighting scenarios and real practical limitations. Do that with an Iphone and than any of the 10 bit SLR's on the market and you'll quickly see the difference in post. Same goes jumping from a prosumer 10 bit image to any actual cinema camera. That is my opinion obviously from my personal experience.

12 bit log has a similar amount of info as 14 bit linear raw. But yeah the image definitely looks very nice regardless.

I mean I probably wouldn't shoot with a Classic if my only concern was audience perception. How is monitoring with the 5D MK3? Really considering it honestly.

I honestly would go with the FX30 over the FX3. The A7S3/FX3 have too much image processing which ruin the internal 10 bit recordings. Shooting external RAW bypasses this but its an annoying workaround that doesn't offer much benefit aside from bypassing the ugly internal processing. Used the FX30 recently on a short, which included low light scenes and it looked great. Film grain was added in post but the original recordings were pretty clean.

How does Panasonic have a perfect IQ processing formula and than mess it up upon every new release? lol

Yeah it is plenty bright. I would say SmallHD is less reflective and more color accurate but you pay a premium for them. Atomos is the 2nd best in my opinion.

Yeah a lot of companies have offers like this. Seems like a solid option if you have a good enough credit score to get accepted. Just applied for RED's program for the V-Raptor. Though I think I am going to decide against it. Don't need to spend more money on gear right now.

I like my Shinobi monitors. They have low noise fan settings.

I mean you could just buy 10 DSLR's and have them on stand by and spend way less.

I would definitely be considering it if it is a 14 bit readout. That would be very unique. 12.5 stops with the texture of 8k raw would be very nice. Still a heck of a lot pricier than my Sigma FP, but for a good reason.

Yeah that would be sweet, at a lower price point. Never going to happen though.

DR is pretty simple. Check CineD or Gerald Undone. Most cameras have dynamic range results between those two sources. For Color I usually rely on a lot of different sources from youtube, forums(including this one), people I know, colorists opinions, and just my own perception from reviewing footage. I think the FX30 is kind of ignored on here because it is a boring camera. It doesn't push past any boundaries. It was also very late incoming. An APSC Sony camera that could do 10 bit and 4k 120p was rumored for a long time. The XH2S has much more interesting capabilities and specs. That said the Sony FX30 is very capable and does what it does well. I personally think the IQ looks and feels better than the FX3. It just isn't a super exciting release.

This chart mentions NR. Is it just talking about the NR that comes from downsampling 8k to 4k? or is it adding noise reduction in davinci or other program.? If it is adding NR in post that means the actual dynamic range is about 12 stops. The Panasonic S1 has more without NR. 12 stops still isn't bad. The 8k Sony venice gets 12.8 stops when downsampling 8k to 4k in post. The RED raptor is getting 12.5 stops. So 12 isn't bad. The stills you posted do look fantastic though. Would be awesome if it was a 14 bit readout, though it seems like they would advertise that.