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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K


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It’s probably a stupid question, and I’m missing something, but what's the advantage of an in camera crop to s16 over using the whole sensor and cropping in post? 

Couldn't they just add s16 frame lines to help you get your shot and then you can adjust it later. That way it's the same advantage as shooting 6k for 4k delivery... right?

Or even better, allow the s16 frame to fill the camera monitor, but the actual file has the full 4k image, vignette and all.

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My dear erstwhile member can you please stop attacking John Brawley now. I have long since given up on camera forum arguments so might not be completely up on who is right and who is wrong-evil /

I like the pictures. A lot.  This camera will probably replace the micro cinema camera for me as it’s not much bigger and is much easier to work with.  I didn’t feel as strongly about the 4K

What a shame. Who are these "deep state" BMD insiders that are here pushing an agenda ? Myself and Hook.  Who else ?  What do you guys think, there's a plot and conspiracy ?  You guys don't wat t

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If you are shooting with s16 lenses then it speeds the whole process to have the files as you will be using them and not having to do a crop on every take.

Reduced file size would offer lower compression rates on slower media or longer record times at same compression rate.

Its much easier to implement a crop for BM than changing things in the display as well to do scaling etc.

I haven't checked the details but does the crop offer higher frame rates too?

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2 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Plus lenses for s16 could be more affordable or you get more for your money. You may be able to pick up an old cinematic zoom for less than a couple k.

Yeah, my thought process was, you can already do that and always could, just crop in post. But as been pointed out, this new in camera crop will save space and time, and we definitely need to do that with the way the world's looking these days.

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2 minutes ago, mercer said:

So, with all of the P6K hype, I missed what the P4K updates are. It seems there is an Anamorphic Mode and a 4K S16 Crop Mode? Anything else?

Yes. There’s a new “Do the work” mode, where you grab your camera and go shoot something. I haven’t tried it yet but eventually I will, once I get the right lens.

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@mercer Here's everything Grant mentioned regarding the P4K update

v6.6 expected 'in a month or two'.

1. Many more HUD languages

2. One screen level, using built in gyrochip.

3. Gimbal support to allow start stop and focus on popular gimbals. (No mention of what those are)

4. 4k 2.4:1 - s16 - 1.33x anamorphic desqueeze & 16x9 preview - 4:3 anamorphic 2x desqueeze preview

5. Hopefully a few other little surprises

 

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10 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Yes. There’s a new “Do the work” mode, where you grab your camera and go shoot something. I haven’t tried it yet but eventually I will, once I get the right lens.

Don’t be too hard on yourself, sometimes a new lens can make all the difference or sometimes an Ursa, a GH5, a BMPCC 4K or maybe the P6K will “do the work?”

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1 hour ago, Anaconda_ said:

@mercer Here's everything Grant mentioned regarding the P4K update

v6.6 expected 'in a month or two'.

1. Many more HUD languages

2. One screen level, using built in gyrochip.

3. Gimbal support to allow start stop and focus on popular gimbals. (No mention of what those are)

4. 4k 2.4:1 - s16 - 1.33x anamorphic desqueeze & 16x9 preview - 4:3 anamorphic 2x desqueeze preview

5. Hopefully a few other little surprises

 

Thanks for the summary. I hope BM is able to fix any outstanding P4K bugs as well.

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On 7/7/2019 at 11:30 PM, Snowfun said:

Damn. I might be one of them. Is it the same as the 180 degree rule? 

Well if you ever worked on drama, sport or such, it's when left to right, becomes right to left for the punter watching at home. Don't fret because some of the best actors I've worked with didn't know what we were on about until they were well into their careers. So many times a stagehand would say "line cross" and we'd have to do another take because of continuity. Thank god for switched on stagies.

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I did a little reading on the reduser forums and people there believe that P6K upsets more P4K owners than anyone else.

The possibility of having a 6K sensor is great, but in reality it can be a burden for budget and feature consious users which P4K owners are (so many features for so little money!).

What do P4K owners think? Do they have to update? Do they need to? What's your impression now that P6K are already available while some people are still waiting for their backordered P4Ks?

 

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2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

What do P4K owners think? Do they have to update? Do they need to?

I think its being misinterpreted by a lot of people that the Pocket 6K is the Pocket 4K Mark II and it just isn't.

The resolution is one thing but the mount dictates that it a different camera.

There is no lens you can put on the Pocket 6K that you can't put on the Pocket 4K but there are plenty the other way round.

If I look at 3 example lenses of a similar focal length that I own and use on the Pocket 4K but will not fit on the Pocket 6K:

  1. Panasonic 25mm f1.7 MFT mount
  2. 7Artisans 28mm f1.4 M mount
  3. REDPro Prime 25mm t1.8 PL mount

So would I prefer the bump in resolution or to be able to use those lenses? 

I'd like both but I'll take the lenses thanks.

That doesn't mean its right for everyone, of course, but for me as a Pocket 4K owner its my preference.

What seems to be forgotten in all this is that when the BMCC was launched with the EF mount, people were absolutely thrilled right up until the point that BM produced the MFT mount version shortly after which devalued the EF version immediately as everyone wanted the more versatile mount.

So I find it curious that the EF was the "wrong" mount and the MFT was the right mount then and yet now it seems to be the other way round when even leaving aside the additional adaption capabilities there are also far better MFT mount lenses available now than there was then too.

Who knows whether history will repeat itself again here and the Pocket 6K will be released with an MFT mount?

 

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1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

What do P4K owners think? Do they have to update? Do they need to? What's your impression now that P6K are already available while some people are still waiting for their backordered P4Ks?

P6k is twice the price of p4k. It's not an update but different product. It's like saying that Sony A7III is just an update to A6500 (same price difference). Not mentioning media price (p4k 60p works with cheap Samsung T5 ssd, p6k may need something much pricier).

For me p6k is not an option. My whole setup with p4k is something around p6k price. And the spec is not much different in my case: don't need 6k (even 4k is little too much for me); need slowmotion a lot, so full sensor 50p In p6k is a downgrade to me; sensor size is the only difference i like, but definitely not worth the price difference.

I dont need this camera, but i'm very happy to see it. It has the same software, which means that we will see more fixes, upgrades and more stable product.

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48 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Who knows whether history will repeat itself again here and the Pocket 6K will be released with an MFT mount?

I would much rather have a Pocket 6k with an MFT mount than an EF mount... seems like it would be a relatively easy adaption to offer,  except there is cooling to consider.  I would also rather have a Pocket 6k than a Pocket 4k and not just for the extra resolution.

There is an effortlessness to Pocket 6k footage that the Pocket 4K does not embody IMHO. The 6K footage just looks closer to right to me, dynamic range aside.  I have owned two Pocket 4ks and returned them both as I could never get comfortable/satisfied with the Pocket 4k image - as they say, it just wasn't for me.

Also, I think it has been said before, but based on the size of the sensor pixels, the Pocket 6K has greater resolution over the same amount of sensor area as compared to Pocket 4K.

Using the same lenses on a theoretical Pocket 6k MTF, you would have approximately 23% more resolution if you windowed Pocket 6k to the Pocket 4k sensor size as compared to the Pocket 4k.  The Pocket 6k is 266 pixels/mm. The Pocket 4k is 216 pixel/mm. (266-216)/216 = 23%

So you would be gaining resolution (and dare I say a more pleasing image presentation IMHO), by using your MTF compatible lens configurations, if Blackmagic offered a Pocket 6k MTF for you to use them on.

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4 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I did a little reading on the reduser forums and people there believe that P6K upsets more P4K owners than anyone else.

The possibility of having a 6K sensor is great, but in reality it can be a burden for budget and feature consious users which P4K owners are (so many features for so little money!).

What do P4K owners think? Do they have to update? Do they need to? What's your impression now that P6K are already available while some people are still waiting for their backordered P4Ks?

 

I have no interest in the P6K. The problem I've found with speed boosters is they sometimes need fine backfocus adjust for individual lenses. I'm using a $180 Vilrox adapter and getting very good results once it's dialed in properly, so I'm going to get a couple more. For $540 extra, my P4K is just as capable as the P6K. For the cost of a P6K I'm looking for features like DPAF in particular, that's why I have my eye on the Sigma FP and upcoming Sony and Nikon models. Just hoping Apple whoops ? and  frees internal raw for the masses.

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40 minutes ago, The ghost of squig said:

I have no interest in the P6K. The problem I've found with speed boosters is they sometimes need fine backfocus adjust for individual lenses. I'm using a $180 Vilrox adapter and getting very good results once it's dialed in properly, so I'm going to get a couple more. For $540 extra, my P4K is just as capable as the P6K. For the cost of a P6K I'm looking for features like DPAF in particular, that's why I have my eye on the Sigma FP and upcoming Sony and Nikon models. Just hoping Apple whoops ? and  frees internal raw for the masses.

What Sony and Nikon models are you looking forward to?

4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I think its being misinterpreted by a lot of people that the Pocket 6K is the Pocket 4K Mark II and it just isn't.

The resolution is one thing but the mount dictates that it a different camera.

There is no lens you can put on the Pocket 6K that you can't put on the Pocket 4K but there are plenty the other way round.

If I look at 3 example lenses of a similar focal length that I own and use on the Pocket 4K but will not fit on the Pocket 6K:

  1. Panasonic 25mm f1.7 MFT mount
  2. 7Artisans 28mm f1.4 M mount
  3. REDPro Prime 25mm t1.8 PL mount

So would I prefer the bump in resolution or to be able to use those lenses? 

I'd like both but I'll take the lenses thanks.

That doesn't mean its right for everyone, of course, but for me as a Pocket 4K owner its my preference.

What seems to be forgotten in all this is that when the BMCC was launched with the EF mount, people were absolutely thrilled right up until the point that BM produced the MFT mount version shortly after which devalued the EF version immediately as everyone wanted the more versatile mount.

So I find it curious that the EF was the "wrong" mount and the MFT was the right mount then and yet now it seems to be the other way round when even leaving aside the additional adaption capabilities there are also far better MFT mount lenses available now than there was then too.

Who knows whether history will repeat itself again here and the Pocket 6K will be released with an MFT mount?

 

MFT lens won't cover the APS-C sensor, right?  

I think and have sen a better argument for EF mount and lens for the P6k then the other way around.  MFT P4K users are more vocal but the side by side samples sow better detail and clarity on the P6K EF mount.  You can't get detail back if the P4K can't capture it. 

The P4K looks great until you compare it to the P6K.  (detail wise). 

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