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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K


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My dear erstwhile member can you please stop attacking John Brawley now. I have long since given up on camera forum arguments so might not be completely up on who is right and who is wrong-evil /

I like the pictures. A lot.  This camera will probably replace the micro cinema camera for me as it’s not much bigger and is much easier to work with.  I didn’t feel as strongly about the 4K

What a shame. Who are these "deep state" BMD insiders that are here pushing an agenda ? Myself and Hook.  Who else ?  What do you guys think, there's a plot and conspiracy ?  You guys don't wat t

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Just in time, but doesn't sound like an incredible upgrade. No IR, no ND, no anything really, just some different thicknesses that noone knew or talked about.

This is another issue that BM has to address. They knew about it and never said anything? Supposedly, people were buying the wrong adapters for a year? Does this sensor need any other special treatment?

That means that every image we have seen so far from any adapter is inferior of what is supposed to be.

The worst part of than equation is that we need different Metabones for different m43 cameras?! That sucks big time and is a significant cost that almost negates P4K price advantage (if you add everything the FS5ii has and does) and doesn't help with other m43 cameras either.

We definitely have to see some proper independent tests. 2 X Metabones for P4K and 2 X Metabones for other m43 camera is an approximate cost of 3100-3300€ here.

BM has handled poorly every P4K issue so far. There is always the price excuse and the "small market" manufacturer, but there are almost a different question mark every week, or two.

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28 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Just in time, but doesn't sound like an incredible upgrade. No IR, no ND, no anything really, just some different thicknesses that noone knew or talked about.

This is another issue that BM has to address.

They new about it and never said anything? Supposedly, people were buying the wrong adapters for a year? Does this sensor need any other special treatment?

That means that every image we have seen so far from any adapter is inferior of what is supposed to be.

The worst part of than equation is that we need different Metabones for different m43 cameras?! That sucks big time and is a significant cost that almost negates P4K price advantage (if you add everything the FS5ii has and does) and doesn't help with other m43 cameras either.

We definitely have to see some proper independent tests. 2 X Metabones for P4K and 2 X Metabones for other m43 camera is an approximate cost of 3100-3300€ here.

BM has handled poorly every P4K issue so far. There is always the price excuse and the "small market" manufacturer, but there are almost a different question mark every week, or two.

Or you can choose not to believe the Metabones marketing hype and just use the adaptor you have. I'm sure Metabones will sell more speedboosters by saying that you need a new one for the Pocket4K. 

And to be fair, this has nothing to do with BMD. BMD is not going to say you will need a new Speed Booster and it's not their problem in the slightest anyway. 

Again, I used a Viltrox Adaptor on a Netflix Doc and no-one has had any complaints about the image.....and that's comparing it to the other C300MkII's using L series native glass we had on the shoot.

Comparing to FS5II is strange too. How much do you need to spend to record RAW or even a 10bit codec to the FS5?

You can 100% shoot RAW and 10bit with the pocket 4k just by adding a lens (Which you also need for the FS5),  variable ND filter and a few extra batteries. 

I think you are over reacting.

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19 hours ago, MeanRevert said:

Once that MetaBones BM one comes out, maybe Viltrox will get their shit together and make a better version to compete.  $700 is kind of out there for an adapter.

yes it certainly is. I balk at paying $700 for a lens ? I could save up for one and by the time their in production, probably get one. However that depends on how desperate i am i could also buy a second hand one and live with that,  and have some change for something else.  

hey mattias did you do a blog or video comparison on the metabones and viltrox ?

56 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Sold my Metabones XL for the sharper, adjustable and cheaper Viltrox. The EF-BMPCC from Metabones is great but the once for MFT are overpriced imo.

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8 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Just in time, but doesn't sound like an incredible upgrade. No IR, no ND, no anything really, just some different thicknesses that noone knew or talked about.

This is another issue that BM has to address. They knew about it and never said anything? Supposedly, people were buying the wrong adapters for a year? Does this sensor need any other special treatment?

That means that every image we have seen so far from any adapter is inferior of what is supposed to be.

The worst part of than equation is that we need different Metabones for different m43 cameras?! That sucks big time and is a significant cost that almost negates P4K price advantage (if you add everything the FS5ii has and does) and doesn't help with other m43 cameras either.

We definitely have to see some proper independent tests. 2 X Metabones for P4K and 2 X Metabones for other m43 camera is an approximate cost of 3100-3300€ here.

BM has handled poorly every P4K issue so far. There is always the price excuse and the "small market" manufacturer, but there are almost a different question mark every week, or two.

I have used my P4Ks with the current Metabones 0.71x adapter with many different lenses (usually the Sigma 18-35) without issue. I have not noticed a single issue with the IQ when using the current adapter. I would be very interested to test my current adapters and the new ones side by side. To hear the marketing speak from Metabones, the newest adapter is the greatest thing ever :)  Having a longer mounting plate would be cool, but I just got the mount for my cage and it holds the adapter well.

The existing M43 Metabones adapters work well with the P4K. Will the new Metabones adapters work better? Probably. But, it isn't like you have to run out and purchase one. The existing ones work well.

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1 hour ago, drm said:

I have used my P4Ks with the current Metabones 0.71x adapter with many different lenses (usually the Sigma 18-35) without issue. I have not noticed a single issue with the IQ when using the current adapter. I would be very interested to test my current adapters and the new ones side by side. To hear the marketing speak from Metabones, the newest adapter is the greatest thing ever :)  Having a longer mounting plate would be cool, but I just got the mount for my cage and it holds the adapter well.

The existing M43 Metabones adapters work well with the P4K. Will the new Metabones adapters work better? Probably. But, it isn't like you have to run out and purchase one. The existing ones work well.

I haven't had any issues either. I started with the Voltrox, but couldn't shoot wide open with it so was forced to grab the Metabones. Didn't want to chance it again with Aputure since I know for a fact Metabones work well. 

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I definitely want to see a side by side test. The fact that a specialized Metabones speedbooster exists will make everyone wonder.

The fact that you can't use this one on another m43 camera is quite significant also, even if it is 2-5-6-7% better than the previous version maybe does not worth it.

What when the new GH6 arrives, or a new JVC LS300, or DJI, or Sharp..

Have you heard about this "sensor thickness" before? It is the first time that I heard about it.

Have anyone use the Metabones adapter (NOT speedbooster) vs the Viltrox EF-M1? 

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1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

Have you heard about this "sensor thickness" before? It is the first time that I heard about it.

 

It is referred to as sensor stack ...

https://petapixel.com/2014/06/10/sensor-stack-thickness-matter/

It is why many Leica M wide angle lenses perform so poorly on Sony A7 cameras ... 

Here is a link to a video by Filippo Chiesa ... BMPCC4K and Speedbooster

... read his comments on AC and glow .... may be related to the stack thickness.

I assume that if you use a SB it should be designed for the camera in question ... otherwise you lose the benefits of the great glass you

have mounted ... the Metabones smart adapter without glass avoids the problem but you lose speed and boost in angle of view.

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52 minutes ago, docmoore said:

It is referred to as sensor stack ...

https://petapixel.com/2014/06/10/sensor-stack-thickness-matter/

It is why many Leica M wide angle lenses perform so poorly on Sony A7 cameras ... 

Thank you very much for the info. This seems like a pretty significant issue.

In short, for everyone using old film lenses, Samyang/Rokinons, and a lot of different primes (you have to know the exit pupil location of that particuliar lens, which you can't, except you have an optical bench or the manufacturer states it), you are gaining a lot with this specialized speedbooster.

If you shoot mostly zooms and teles, not so much..

Depending the sensor stack and the lenses exit pupil location, the difference can be (with 1 as max, and 0.85 as an hypothetical perfect lens) 80% worst! Now, in real life both are very difficult to happen, but I see a lot of combos that can take this number to 30% loss, or something (I am not sure if I can read the table right, maybe this number is too pessimistic).

I can tell from the data that APS-C and FF are near 2-2.5mm sensor stacking. For some reason, most m43 are 4-4.5mm, so Metabones doesn't lie, BM cameras with m43 mount need different Speedboosters. 

That's all in theory of course, but there is not only smoke..

I wonder what those extra layers do on the other m43 cameras and if the BM P4K sensor can still be considered the same as the GH5S..

As I see it, one more specialized item to rise the total P4K cost.

 

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I missed reading this in the description for the new speed boosters the first time:

"...the optics have been re-designed to optimize for the filter stack thickness of 2.4mm found in Blackmagic cameras rather than the 4mm of a standard Micro Four Thirds."

Wow...That filter stack thickness is much less than standard M4/3. But, apparently the old Black Magic 2.5K camera had a 2.5mm stack thickness. So, Black Magic is doing this for some specific reason. I wonder the reason...

So, it looks like there really is a reason for a new Speed Booster unique to the P4K. Now, I really want to see one so that I can compare them side by side. According to the petapixel article, a thickness difference like that could have a large impact on image quality when using the booster with adapted lenses.

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43 minutes ago, drm said:

I missed reading this in the description for the new speed boosters the first time:

"...the optics have been re-designed to optimize for the filter stack thickness of 2.4mm found in Blackmagic cameras rather than the 4mm of a standard Micro Four Thirds."

Wow...That filter stack thickness is much less than standard M4/3. But, apparently the old Black Magic 2.5K camera had a 2.5mm stack thickness. So, Black Magic is doing this for some specific reason. I wonder the reason...

So, it looks like there really is a reason for a new Speed Booster unique to the P4K. Now, I really want to see one so that I can compare them side by side. According to the petapixel article, a thickness difference like that could have a large impact on image quality when using the booster with adapted lenses.

maybe bm have shares in metabones ...?

can you really call it a standard micro four thirds mount if the filter stack is thinner and it affects mounted optics ? surely with or without a speed booster, optics wouldn't be focusing to the correct point no matter what lens was on it, which would make it bm's fault or is my thinking flawed ? the fact is that the lenses i fit on the front seem to focus ok makes me think its not the issue some people say it is. Metabones might be exaggerating the situation slightly hoping  people might teeter over the edge into buying a newer and greater adapter. How many percent better is unclear at this point, if its 10-20 percent well that would be worth splashing out on if its only a few percent better i'd stick with buying a cheaper used adapter. Thats my thinking anyway. Until someone can do a definitive side by side test we won't know. Maybe andrew could approach metabones about a  test unit for blogging purposes if its really that good, andrew  could sell heaps of these for metabones thats a win/win right ?

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