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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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1 minute ago, Mattias Burling said:

A positive is that buying the Micro today used includes all you need. Fully rigged kits go for peanuts while people jump to the new one. Once the sales of the BMPCC4K has settled the prices might swing up again. 

I had several to choose from before settling on kit with the camera, small rig cage, metabones bmpcc speedbooster, Ursa side grip, 512gb SanDisk Extreme, Breakoutbox, HDMI Clamp, artikeln rosette and a bunch of other little nick nacks. Set me back less than the retail of the camera alone.

Added a screen and I was good to go.

It's the same with the BMCC, BMPCC and the BMPCC. Loads of accessories in already affordable kits.

True, it's best to buy already built kits. Which is one reason I'm NOT selling mine, NOBODY'S gonna slide in and take all my hard work and tears putting that crazy rig together!!1!

I will say, the original BMPCC is MUCH easier to use (for me) than the Micro. All I need is the mini-shotgun mic, and a Kinotehnik loupe, and I'm good to go.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Agreed, the BMPCC is also easy. But once rigged (I never take it apart) the Micro is like most cameras if you are in somewhat consistent lighting conditions (changing WB without a remote is annoying to say the least).

But those sort of things are a bit annoying on the original pocket as well. The BMPCC4K is more like the BMCC there. 

Another nice thing with a Breakoutbox is that I can power both the camera and screen with the same battery. And since the screen accepts both Sony and Canon batteries it gives me options. On the BMPCC4K you obviously don't need to since it's screen is big enough.

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34 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Agreed, the BMPCC is also easy. But once rigged (I never take it apart) the Micro is like most cameras if you are in somewhat consistent lighting conditions (changing WB without a remote is annoying to say the least).

But those sort of things are a bit annoying on the original pocket as well. The BMPCC4K is more like the BMCC there. 

Another nice thing with a Breakoutbox is that I can power both the camera and screen with the same battery. And since the screen accepts both Sony and Canon batteries it gives me options. On the BMPCC4K you obviously don't need to since it's screen is big enough.

Hmm, what is this Breakoutbox you speak of? Is that Phil Lemon's project, or a standard breakout box?

A great thing about the Micro is the 3:1 RAW, so thank God I don't have to worry about screwing up the white balance. BMPCC has RAW too, but it's ungodly huge and impossible to play without transcoding, so I never used it much.

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Also, the only time I've ever been shut down for shooting something was with my Micro rig. And I was just filming my family ice skating!

Granted, I live in LA, so people are more attuned to this stuff, but here I am, filming my family skating at an outdoor rink around Christmas, and the Manager comes up to me...

"Hey man, you can't shoot with that thing here."

"What? Why not? Everybody here is filming their family on their phones, etc."

"Yeah, but you've got a whole professional camera deal. We've got rules about that."

"Look, that guy over there is filming with a Canon 5D Mk IV, that camera costs three times as much as mine!"

"Yeah, but you got this mic and stuff, it's making people nervous. Sorry dude."

...So, of course, I pretended to agree, waited til he left, then shot at waist level, glancing down at my monitor surreptitiously... Two minutes later...

"No, dude. I can still tell you're filming. You gotta put it away or leave."

"ARE YOU KIDDING ME? WITH ALL THE STUFF IN THE WORLD THAT HAPPENS, YOU GOTTA SHUT DOWN A DAD FILMING HIS FAMILY?! C'MON EVERYONE, GET THE SKATES OFF, WE'RE LEAVING. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!"

😄

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17 hours ago, Shirozina said:

'Without artefacts' - please explain what reality this is?

Exactly.

No possible to live without them, isn't it? ; )

 

So, why to go lower and exclude the upper?

Why to ignore the most crucial clientele basis interest only to unilaterally impose some self-centered business aim or/and corporate agenda?

Why to not comply the full specs, prior-advertised, launched and released as well PURCHASED CinemaDNG camera, as due?

Why to not let people to keep the chance for choice and use whatever they/we want?

Why to keep and extend such cut-off with the new display firmware now, practically towards a P4K Mark *Minus* II?

Why such lack of respect with the customers who pay the existence of the brand, after all?

Why telling us lies like we are all naive consumers with a prosumer toy in hands?

Why to tell advantage in a pathetic show off presenting the whole thing as the most important invention since Steven Sasson when it's not consensual if we can all call it raw?

 

More questions we could address here... nuff said for now though.

Pictures still worth a thousand words. They speak by themselves. Useless the usual childish denial. It simply doesn't work out.

 

E : -)

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8 hours ago, mercer said:

That’s good to know but I think you lose some of the “raw” functionality without the BRaw Panel?

Just to keep information accurate: BM didn't remove the functionality of raw or a omit a Braw panel.

The raw panel is still the first pane in the Color section of Resolve. You still have full control over everything from white balance to ISO there once you select "Clip" as your option - as always.

Highlight Recovery is now in the Primaries second page

Like every program, as the fuctionality of the technology evolves the program evolves with it.

Braw is great because it's faster and smaller than CDNG but with all of the post control.

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3 hours ago, StHubbins said:

Yeah, the biggest problem with my Micro is that it is literally the most difficult camera to use in the history of cameras... and that's from an owner of the original BMPCC. To get my Micro to work for my run-and-gun style, I've needed

1) A cage 

2) an HDMI cable lock

3) a Blackmagic URSA Mini handle, with LANC cable

4) an offset Arri rosette, purchased from a guy who makes them in Russia 

5) a right angle-to-straight HDMI cable for the monitor

6) a monitor, with 6B) a battery sled

7) a Sony battery (and charger) for the monitor

8} a One Little Remote control box, and 8B) a separate mounting screw for the cage

9) a Sennheiser MKE400 small shotgun mic for usable sound, with 9B) a screw-in cold shoe mount

This rig took me a ton of research and about 3 months to get together. And the camera is still barely usable - even the One Little Remote (which is great, compared to the laughable buttons on the front of the Micro) doesn't have a screen, so you have to guess if you've pressed a button once or twice or 3 times to figure out which parameter you're on. He's made a new one with a screen, but I don't want to buy yet another thing (though at some point I will). And nothing's worse than having your monitor run out of juice... and realize that your camera is still going strong, but there's no way to see what you're shooting.

Now, to get a fully useable rig for my BMPCC4K, I've had to buy...

1) Nothing.

Yep. Great (stereo!) audio from in camera, huge built-in monitor, tons of easy access buttons, plus a touch screen and amazing UI. I literally have NOTHING on the camera. And it's about 2 lbs. lighter than my Micro.

The Micro's image quality is indeed delicious, but it's a preposterously huge hassle to shoot with, comparatively. Nonetheless, you'll never get me to sell it ;)

I agree completely with all of this. I haven't built my micro up to the extent of yours. (Still pressing those horrible buttons on the camera) The image with the micro and Pocket is beautiful, but when I go out to shoot, the P4k goes with me. Usability is becoming more and more important for me these days. Until I come up with that artsy project where that image of old is a must, these guys are watching over all my shelved gear. The thought of what it takes to use them and rigging them up makes me lose interest quick when deciding which cam to take.

shelfsitters.jpg

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6 hours ago, mercer said:

That’s not a bad deal at all!

I’m looking at it like this... the Micro for the ease of ProRes or the GH5 for the ease of handheld. I haven’t decided which is more important to me yet... or if I need either.

I love the GH5 because I can shoot handheld and get a handheld but not shaky look, like when people shoot handheld with a cinema camera that smooths movement a bit due to its weight. I worked out early on that I can't stand the aesthetic of the micro-jitters you get when shooting without IBIS or OIS or a rig, so for me it's an aesthetic choice.

Considering you're enjoying your 5D+ML setup (and don't use huge rigs) I'd suggest that you don't need the IBIS in the GH5.  Of course, having to rig it out completely vs the GH5 which has a screen, nice UI, buttons galore, etc is another matter.  From that perspective the P4K might be the best of both worlds - not requiring a huge rig but still having BM IQ.

4 hours ago, StHubbins said:

Yeah, the biggest problem with my Micro is that it is literally the most difficult camera to use in the history of cameras... and that's from an owner of the original BMPCC. To get my Micro to work for my run-and-gun style, I've needed

1) A cage 

2) an HDMI cable lock

3) a Blackmagic URSA Mini handle, with LANC cable

4) an offset Arri rosette, purchased from a guy who makes them in Russia 

5) a right angle-to-straight HDMI cable for the monitor

6) a monitor, with 6B) a battery sled

7) a Sony battery (and charger) for the monitor

8} a One Little Remote control box, and 8B) a separate mounting screw for the cage

9) a Sennheiser MKE400 small shotgun mic for usable sound, with 9B) a screw-in cold shoe mount

This rig took me a ton of research and about 3 months to get together. And the camera is still barely usable - even the One Little Remote (which is great, compared to the laughable buttons on the front of the Micro) doesn't have a screen, so you have to guess if you've pressed a button once or twice or 3 times to figure out which parameter you're on. He's made a new one with a screen, but I don't want to buy yet another thing (though at some point I will). And nothing's worse than having your monitor run out of juice... and realize that your camera is still going strong, but there's no way to see what you're shooting.

Now, to get a fully useable rig for my BMPCC4K, I've had to buy...

1) Nothing.

Yep. Great (stereo!) audio from in camera, huge built-in monitor, tons of easy access buttons, plus a touch screen and amazing UI. I literally have NOTHING on the camera. And it's about 2 lbs. lighter than my Micro.

The Micro's image quality is indeed delicious, but it's a preposterously huge hassle to shoot with, comparatively. Nonetheless, you'll never get me to sell it ;)

I'm still keen to try to make the P4K match the older BM cameras in post-production.  If anyone has the ability to film some useful test footage with the P4K and an older BM camera and can upload it then I'll put in some serious work to see if we can match the old aesthetic from the new camera.

My theory is that we should be able to, because going from more resolution to less is possible, and having good bit-depth should be sufficient to grade and match colours etc.

Thread is here:

I don't have a BM camera of any kind, but if I can work out how to make the P4K have the magic of older BM cameras then I think I will learn a bunch trying to figure it out, and I'll get all kinds of interesting techniques to use with my GH5 footage, so I'm definitely up for it.

3 hours ago, StHubbins said:

Also, the only time I've ever been shut down for shooting something was with my Micro rig. And I was just filming my family ice skating!

Granted, I live in LA, so people are more attuned to this stuff, but here I am, filming my family skating at an outdoor rink around Christmas, and the Manager comes up to me...

"Hey man, you can't shoot with that thing here."

"What? Why not? Everybody here is filming their family on their phones, etc."

"Yeah, but you've got a whole professional camera deal. We've got rules about that."

"Look, that guy over there is filming with a Canon 5D Mk IV, that camera costs three times as much as mine!"

"Yeah, but you got this mic and stuff, it's making people nervous. Sorry dude."

...So, of course, I pretended to agree, waited til he left, then shot at waist level, glancing down at my monitor surreptitiously... Two minutes later...

"No, dude. I can still tell you're filming. You gotta put it away or leave."

"ARE YOU KIDDING ME? WITH ALL THE STUFF IN THE WORLD THAT HAPPENS, YOU GOTTA SHUT DOWN A DAD FILMING HIS FAMILY?! C'MON EVERYONE, GET THE SKATES OFF, WE'RE LEAVING. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!"

😄

I feel your pain.  I also shoot my family a lot when we travel in privately controlled venues like skating rinks, museums, art galleries, parks, water parks, etc where the normal rules about the right to film in public don't apply.  This is why I'm trying to keep my setups to be as minimal as possible.  I think it's having a microphone, and having it look big and complicated that are the issues.

1 hour ago, leslie said:

my pictures are in 4k..... thats got to be worth 4 thousand words 😁

Just wait for 8K - we'll be writing essays!!

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1 hour ago, Jim Giberti said:

Just to keep information accurate: BM didn't remove the functionality of raw or a omit a Braw panel.

The raw panel is still the first pane in the Color section of Resolve. You still have full control over everything from white balance to ISO there once you select "Clip" as your option - as always.

Highlight Recovery is now in the Primaries second page

Like every program, as the fuctionality of the technology evolves the program evolves with it.

Braw is great because it's faster and smaller than CDNG but with all of the post control.

My mistake, I didn’t realize that BlackMagic Raw uses the same Raw Panel as CDNG does... I thought it was a separate panel that had it’s own functions.

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2 hours ago, kye said:

I'm still keen to try to make the P4K match the older BM cameras in post-production.  If anyone has the ability to film some useful test footage with the P4K and an older BM camera and can upload it then I'll put in some serious work to see if we can match the old aesthetic from the new camera.

My theory is that we should be able to, because going from more resolution to less is possible, and having good bit-depth should be sufficient to grade and match colours etc.

Thread is here:

I don't have a BM camera of any kind, but if I can work out how to make the P4K have the magic of older BM cameras then I think I will learn a bunch trying to figure it out, and I'll get all kinds of interesting techniques to use with my GH5 footage, so I'm definitely up for it.

I feel bad I never did this. Going to head out after dinner and grab some clips with a Micro and a P4k. Both RAW 3:1 to start.

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6 hours ago, StHubbins said:

Also, the only time I've ever been shut down for shooting something was with my Micro rig. And I was just filming my family ice skating!

Granted, I live in LA, so people are more attuned to this stuff, but here I am, filming my family skating at an outdoor rink around Christmas, and the Manager comes up to me...

"Hey man, you can't shoot with that thing here."

"What? Why not? Everybody here is filming their family on their phones, etc."

"Yeah, but you've got a whole professional camera deal. We've got rules about that."

"Look, that guy over there is filming with a Canon 5D Mk IV, that camera costs three times as much as mine!"

"Yeah, but you got this mic and stuff, it's making people nervous. Sorry dude."

...So, of course, I pretended to agree, waited til he left, then shot at waist level, glancing down at my monitor surreptitiously... Two minutes later...

"No, dude. I can still tell you're filming. You gotta put it away or leave."

"ARE YOU KIDDING ME? WITH ALL THE STUFF IN THE WORLD THAT HAPPENS, YOU GOTTA SHUT DOWN A DAD FILMING HIS FAMILY?! C'MON EVERYONE, GET THE SKATES OFF, WE'RE LEAVING. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!"

😄

That is the problem with the Micro to me over the BMPCC, you might as well have a Canon C300. I, at my age, can't hardly shoot with a Smartphone, let alone a Camera Rig. The world has changed big time. Nobody trusts anyone anymore. When i was young Everyone trusted everyone. Complete opposite then. You young people are screwed big time.

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3 hours ago, kye said:

I love the GH5 because I can shoot handheld and get a handheld but not shaky look, like when people shoot handheld with a cinema camera that smooths movement a bit due to its weight. I worked out early on that I can't stand the aesthetic of the micro-jitters you get when shooting without IBIS or OIS or a rig, so for me it's an aesthetic choice.

Considering you're enjoying your 5D+ML setup (and don't use huge rigs) I'd suggest that you don't need the IBIS in the GH5.  Of course, having to rig it out completely vs the GH5 which has a screen, nice UI, buttons galore, etc is another matter.  From that perspective the P4K might be the best of both worlds - not requiring a huge rig but still having BM IQ.

I’ve had a few cameras with IBIS and it’s one of the best features ever implemented. The ability to stabilize my favorite vintage lenses truly is amazing and that is a major reason the GH5 is on my short list plus after using the 5D3 for a couple years, I think the ultra clean, modern look of the GH5 is a positive. 

I think the BMPCC 4K is just a little too much camera for a 2nd camera especially since I’d most likely shoot 1080p with it. But if I find a deal, you never know.

As of now, I am wavering between the GH5, the BMMCC and the Z Cam E2C.

We’ll see.

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1 hour ago, graphicnatured said:

I feel bad I never did this. Going to head out after dinner and grab some clips with a Micro and a P4k. Both RAW 3:1 to start.

Don't feel bad - lots of others around have multiple cameras and could have put their hand up..  This stuff is all on top of our day jobs, families, and other stuff, which should all take priority :) 

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I messed this first test up pretty badly. I don't recommend deciding last minute to go shoot a test as the sun is going down, but hey, at least I finally did something. I'll shoot some more with the P4k and Micro on this holiday weekend and do it properly. Bonus points to the first person in the forum who doesn't live in my town who can name the famous movie this location is featured in. Knowing you guys, this is too easy.

stills01.jpg

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Just now, graphicnatured said:

I messed this first test up pretty badly. I don't recommend deciding last minute to go shoot a test as the sun is going down, but hey, at least I finally did something. I'll shoot some more with the P4k and Micro on this holiday weekend and do it properly. Bonus points to the first person in the forum who doesn't live in my town who can name the famous movie this location is featured in. Knowing you guys, this is too easy.

stills01.jpg

Yeah, fading light is terrible for camera comparisons unless you hit record on both at the same time (and have duplicate lenses of course).

Wild guess, but .... Blues Brothers?

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Just now, kye said:

Yeah, fading light is terrible for camera comparisons unless you hit record on both at the same time (and have duplicate lenses of course).

Wild guess, but .... Blues Brothers?

Nope, but thanks for trying!

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4 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

That is the problem with the Micro to me over the BMPCC, you might as well have a Canon C300.

It does look a bit Frankenstein. But it still won me over for now. The new owner of my BMPCC4K emailed to let me know he is a happy camper.

2019-05-11_09-09-44-01.thumb.jpeg.9c7f52d1cc403b7eeaa9ca12a6ebc03f.jpeg

Looking passed the image quality, which I preferred on the Micro. It felt like any time I really want an unobtrusive and easily used handheld camera I would use the EOS-R anyway. There are very few instances when it's 400mbit HD isn't good enough for me. And the DIS works a treat.

But like I said, the BMPCC4K is a great tool, lovely to use and I definitely will buy another when prices have come down.

11 hours ago, StHubbins said:

Hmm, what is this Breakoutbox you speak of? Is that Phil Lemon's project, or a standard breakout box?

Same guy that sells the Arri Rosette, he has a thread here in the Raw Camera Section, it's almost at the top.

2019-04-26_07-28-13-01.jpeg.7eaecf3a12f05be184cc4a2303eb8b22.jpeg

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