Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[BTM_Pix 2,968]

3 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Is the Metabones noticeably sharper?

Maybe the best solution is to have all of 3 options (Regain-Metabones-dumb adapter) for various circumstances, which is a plus - for having the options and a minus - especially for people like me that detest adaptors.

I think its fractionally sharper but nothing to write home about.

The only problem with dumb adapters with EF lenses is that they are a bit too dumb in the sense you can't control the aperture or power the IS.

I'm not sure if there actually is any smart adapters from EF to MFT that aren't also focal reducers?

The solution would be to buy the very cheapest smart focal reducer one and take the glass out of it.

[xzobinx 42]

54 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I think its fractionally sharper but nothing to write home about.

The only problem with dumb adapters with EF lenses is that they are a bit too dumb in the sense you can't control the aperture or power the IS.

I'm not sure if there actually is any smart adapters from EF to MFT that aren't also focal reducers?

The solution would be to buy the very cheapest smart focal reducer one and take the glass out of it.

the Viltrox EF-M1 is one such thing. it's a smart adapter without the focal reducer.

As per your solution, I tried to remove the focal reducer optic from my Viltrox EF-M2 once and I could not focus my 18-35 at all. The minimum focus distance seems to be pushed to really far away. I have not figured out the reason why. 

[Kisaha 1,228]

30 minutes ago, xzobinx said:

the Viltrox EF-M1 is one such thing. it's a smart adapter without the focal reducer.

As per your solution, I tried to remove the focal reducer optic from my Viltrox EF-M2 once and I could not focus my 18-35 at all. The minimum focus distance seems to be pushed to really far away. I have not figured out the reason why. 

Οκ. So one needs the Regain/Metabones/Viltrox M1. So one zoom, changing the adapters, could practically become 3 different ones.

That is not a bad option to have, considering how cheap the Regain/Viltrox adapters are. I mean, I already have bought the Regain without even having the camera yet!

I am in the market for a camera system since Samsung abandoned us. I am seriously considering my options here, and I seriously can not justify paying FS5/FS7/C200/C300/EVA/UMP money, when the Pocket offers all that I need for a portion of the cost. My only issue with all these smaller cameras is the internal ND of course, but should I pay 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 and 7 times the money for the convenience of i-ND and 1 or 2 more advantages?

With the likes of P4K/X-T3/GH5S/Z6 a dedicated video camera as a solution seems less appealing to me. The price is not justifiable anymore. The market is changing so quickly now..

Just thinking out loud now!

[RWR 29]

FWIW, P4k is a "dedicated video camera".

[Kisaha 1,228]

33 minutes ago, RWR said:

FWIW, P4k is a "dedicated video camera".

My bad, but you know what I mean.

Also, with such capable hybrids, new mount lenses with video in mind (both Canon and Nikon clearly stated that when introduced their new mounts) and the extra "bonus" of taking incredible stills, will steal a lot from the dedicated video cameras sales (we can include the P4K here also!).

[Anaconda_ 429]

It's all so dependant on your individual needs though. If I I'm handholding all day and had these choices:

4 hours ago, Kisaha said:

FS5/FS7/C200/C300/EVA/UMP

or

4 hours ago, Kisaha said:

P4K/X-T3/GH5S/Z6

I would 100% go for the bigger bodies. The servo zoom alone on the FSx can really be great in a doc style shoot, and I find putting the actual camera on my shoulder is always going to be steadier than using a rails shoulder system. Then there's the ergonomics of the bigger cameras when they're on your shoulder. A proper grip with exposure controls etc. which the smallers just don't have, so either the actual camera is a way off your shoulder, or you arm is in a very uncomfortable position. Either opens up the possibilty for less stable operation, since the pivot is on your shoulder.

With that said, I do have daily access to an UM4.6k and FS5, yet 98% of the time go with my P4k. My day to day shoot is set up on a tripod, so size is almost irrelevant. The main difference here is I can fit more lenses in the bag, to have more choices on location.

Anyway, the point is, you can't rule out certain body styles for the whole industry because your needs don't require such a big body. 

 

[Kisaha 1,228]

  @Anaconda_ I prefer the bigger bodies, but not when they offer less recording options for a lot more money.

You can build up a smaller camera, but you can not shrink a big one!

What P4K, EZ and the hybrids brought to the table this last year, is truly exrraordinary. 

FS, C and the such cameras they have to up their game for the amount of money they ask for!

For the business I do (I am mostly a sound man in the industry), I considered a 5000€ budget for my new camera. I am in the market for one since 2018. What are my options? Should I go to 7 and 8 and 9.000, or just go under that? The logical thing to do is go under and spend the rest of the money on more lenses!

[kye 1,086]

FYI: Just posted that I'm about to do a lens shootout of a bunch of lenses on my GH5, so if you have any input to how I should test, comment over in the lenses thread.

 

[Shirozina 397]

20 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I'm not sure if there actually is any smart adapters from EF to MFT that aren't also focal reducers?

The solution would be to buy the very cheapest smart focal reducer one and take the glass out of it.

Metabones and Viltrox make non focal reducer EF-MFT smart adapters. Removing the optics from a focal reducer adapter won't work as they are different thicknesses.

[xzobinx 42]

47 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

Metabones and Viltrox make non focal reducer EF-MFT smart adapters. Removing the optics from a focal reducer adapter won't work as they are different thicknesses.

my guess is the same. the principal is similar to how adding extension tube gives your lens marco capability. I've just bought some marco extension tube to play around with. 

[BTM_Pix 2,968]

1 hour ago, Shirozina said:

Metabones and Viltrox make non focal reducer EF-MFT smart adapters. Removing the optics from a focal reducer adapter won't work as they are different thicknesses.

As I said, I wasn't aware that anyone made one so thanks to you and @xzobinx for the clarification.

[Jonesy Jones 619]

On 2/9/2019 at 12:21 PM, MurtlandPhoto said:

Yes 128GB 95MB/s ones. UHD ProRes HQ no problem. You can even do raw 4:1.

So my client decided to go over and above and buy the 256GB sandisk sd's instead of the 128 ones that I recommended. Thoughts or experience with the 256 cards? Think there will be stability issues? Should we return them and just go with the 128 ones?

@Jim Giberti @Emanuel @xzobinx

[drm 17]

1 hour ago, Jonesy Jones said:

So my client decided to go over and above and buy the 256GB sandisk sd's instead of the 128 ones that I recommended. Thoughts or experience with the 256 cards? Think there will be stability issues? Should we return them and just go with the 128 ones?

@Jim Giberti @Emanuel @xzobinx

Two things:

1. I have about a dozen of the 256GB SD cards from a couple of different brands. The 256GB cards perform as good as, or better than, the 128GB cards, so there should not be an issue with your client purchasing the 256 cards instead of the 128 cards. According to testing in the GH5, the avg. write speed for the Sandisk Extreme Pro SD card is 40MB/s on the 256 and 38.8 on the 128. These cards are V30 cards.

2. I know that people on here have had good luck recording various formats on the P4K with the Sandisk Extreme Pro SD cards, but given the data rates in the camera specs, you will likely have to use the CFast cards or external SSDs to record at some of the highest resolution/bit rates.

I just made a few recordings on my P4K using the Sandisk Extreme Pro 128GB V30 card.

• Cinema DNG Lossless 4K DCI -- the recording stopped after 3 seconds
• Cinema DNG 3:1 4K DCI -- the recording stopped after 6 seconds. 
• Cinema DNG 4:1 4K DCI -- the recording stopped after 21 seconds.
• Cinema DNG 4:1 UHD -- the recording stopped after 42 seconds
• ProRes 422 HQ 4K DCI -- the recording stopped after 16 seconds.
• **ProRes 422 4K DCI -- the recording lasted 26:27:13 and filled the entire card. So, you may be able to record ProRes 422 on your card too.

According to the specs, even V90 cards should not be able to record the highest resolution/bit rates. We use the T5 1TB disks and have not had any trouble recording to them. Best of luck!

[vgsmedia 1]

5 hours ago, drm said:

According to the specs, even V90 cards should not be able to record the highest resolution/bit rates. We use the T5 1TB disks and have not had any trouble recording to them. Best of luck!

I am using the "ADATA SDXC UHS-II U3 Class 10 256GB Premier One V90" for months now with 4K DCI RAW 3:1 (24fps), 4K DCI RAW 4:1 (30fps) and 4K DCI ProRes HQ (30fps) without any problem at all.

[drm 17]

49 minutes ago, vgsmedia said:

I am using the "ADATA SDXC UHS-II U3 Class 10 256GB Premier One V90" for months now with 4K DCI RAW 3:1 (24fps), 4K DCI RAW 4:1 (30fps) and 4K DCI ProRes HQ (30fps) without any problem at all.

Thanks for the info on the ADATA card. It sounds like your card performs really well. We have found a lot of variability in performance across the brands of SD cards that we have used.

Here are the listed data rates from BM:

Cinema 4K: (30 fps)

• CinemaDNG RAW - 270 MB/s
• CinemaDNG RAW 3:1 - 128 MB/s
• CinemaDNG RAW 4:1 - 96 MB/s

4K: (30 fps)

• Apple ProRes 422 HQ - 110 MB/s
• Apple ProRes 422 - 73.6 MB/s

The V90 rating guarantees a minimum sequential write speed of 90 MB/s. At those rates, I would expect a V90 card to maybe handle 4:1, but RAW, 3:1 and ProRes 422 HQ may not work, depending upon the performance of someone's particular SD card.

Prores is a variable bit rate codec, not fixed rate. So, it might work on some scenes. But, just because a particular SD card recorded one scene, it doesn't mean that it will always work (with ProRes 422 HQ).

[Kisaha 1,228]

I asked the BM importer again today, and he told me that if I pre order now, I may have the camera in autumn, but he can not even guarantee October!

This is kind of ridiculous..on the other hand, this camera is a bigger success than most people believe.

[mercer 3,452]

16 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I asked the BM importer again today, and he told me that if I pre order now, I may have the camera in autumn, but he can not even guarantee October!

This is kind of ridiculous..on the other hand, this camera is a bigger success than most people believe.

That’s unbelievable. I wonder how many cameras are actually out in the wild... for all we know there could only be a hundred cameras shipped and the preorders are paying for each manufacturing run. 

[Kisaha 1,228]

51 minutes ago, mercer said:

That’s unbelievable. I wonder how many cameras are actually out in the wild... for all we know there could only be a hundred cameras shipped and the preorders are paying for each manufacturing run. 

To be fair, I know 3 people locally that own one, which is exactly 3 times the people I know that own a Nikon or Canon full frame mirrorless camera, and 2 more than a Fuji X-T3, so it can't be that bad!(true story).

In all seriousness though, I was expecting a better roll out of the product. It definitely will hurt sales, but not as much as for BM to care about it.

This is a huge success, I know so many people that have pre-order that is crazy.

If a good C100mkiii or a competitive A7siii is being announced soon-ish, will cut a lot of their sales though.

[mercer 3,452]

28 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

To be fair, I know 3 people locally that own one, which is exactly 3 times the people I know that own a Nikon or Canon full frame mirrorless camera, and 2 more than a Fuji X-T3, so it can't be that bad!(true story).

In all seriousness though, I was expecting a better roll out of the product. It definitely will hurt sales, but not as much as for BM to care about it.

This is a huge success, I know so many people that have pre-order that is crazy.

If a good C100mkiii or a competitive A7siii is being announced soon-ish, will cut a lot of their sales though.

Well, I know one person that owns a Canon (myself) one person that owns an Olympus and one person that owns a Panasonic, so obviously only Canon, Olympus and Panasonic have sold any cameras in the past year... 🤪

But yes seriously... I really wonder how many units have been delivered. If I were to use this site and online videos as a metric... it could be in the hundreds or low thousands.

Either way what BM produced here for the price is pretty spectacular... I’m just curious if maybe they were using preorders to finance production and that is the reason for the hold up?

I mean, for a niche product, I would think 10,000 preorders would be a respectable number and I cannot imagine why it would take more than a month or two to fulfil those preorders. We’re almost 6 months out since September. It just seems odd. 

The good news is that most people that received theirs is really happy with it.

[BTM_Pix 2,968]

In a funny way, as we are coming up to the first anniversary of its announcement, it would be more understandable if they hadn't shipped any yet or had only just started shipping.

I agree that it seems unusual that they actually started to get them out of the door not far off on schedule but are still not readily available almost six months later.

I'm hoping this is just a perception thing and that they've actually shipped a gazillion as I've got an app to sell for it next week