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Panasonic S5 Entry Level Full Frame seems to be real...


jgharding
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12 hours ago, Matt Hollman said:

If this camera has PDAF...

I rarely use auto-focus.  I am curious though, for those that seem to prioritize it as a needed spec before buying a camera body, why exactly?  What are you doing so often that it's invaluable to you?  This isn't snark, I just don't shoot in way where I feel I need it, so I'd like to know why it moves the needle for others. 

Is it vlogging?

It's vlogging, isn't it? 

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10 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

I rarely use auto-focus.  I am curious though, for those that seem to prioritize it as a needed spec before buying a camera body, why exactly?  What are you doing so often that it's invaluable to you?  This isn't snark, I just don't shoot in way where I feel I need it, so I'd like to know why it moves the needle for others. 

Is it vlogging?

It's vlogging, isn't it? 

For me it's photography. I need a hybrid camera to  have great AF for photography  work. The S1 is NOT good enough for low light photography needs. 

For video it is far less important for me. 

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It is a hybrid camera, we need fast and accurate AF system, and in 2020 AF for video is a whole new world waiting to be explored!

I heard something about the Sony A5 (or whatever it will be called) that it may have "advanced" video specs for the price.

Canon has almost 45% of total sales. Sony 20, Nikon 18.9, Fuji/Panasonic something like 4.7%

The market declines 22% every year for the last few years. 

 

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In docu-style and bts work most canon and sony have great af one can use all day. This includes anything from concert footage to weddings to convention coverage. I don't understand why this is even up for debate in 2020. Just search on youtube or google about how may professionals are using af in their work now. Even the pros who were skeptical before admit they use it now. Even on  a low budget film try to keep the couple in focus as they walk towards you with lens around f4 and wider especially if light is low. See how many takes you do and watch the focus pullers eyes go bloodshot  and the actors and other crew members lose their attention. You're about to lose all the light and money clock is ticking away. You can't come to this location again and the last 15 takes are all unusable because the one or two good takes the boom messed up or the actors were off. Now do the same shot with a canon cine camera with dpaf.

Panasonic needed to sort this out 2-3 years ago.

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5 hours ago, Timotheus said:

Can we call it a fullframe GH5?

I'd say it's on its way.

IIRC The GH5 didn't get the ALL-I or 400Mbps codecs until firmware updates, so it might be on the cards for this one too.

As a MFT user it doesn't really impact me, my GH5 shoots the same modes today than it did before this was leaked.  But otherwise, this is great stuff.  Panasonic pushing the envelope benefits us all in the long-term.

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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CtQSfUtHCeBSQEFdh7C23pQTKRiR91Zl/view

DARN IT! There is no DCI 4K 😞
 

17 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Really curious what the price will be, the 20-60mm is perfect for travel and vlog.

That was my first thought too, for vloggers wide end matters more than tele. 
And 20mm FF is pretty sweet for that. 
 

15 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Isnt the S1 the entry level ff camera?

Yes, currently from Panasonic. 
But with the dirt cheap EOS RP / a7Smk2 etc on the market, then it is worthwhile Panasonic considering an even cheaper model. (especially as they've said they won't bring out an APS-C L Mount body)
 

12 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

This could very easily turn into another G100 level blunder 🤦‍♂️

oh god I hope not!
At least don't make it worse than the G95 "blunder".
 

11 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

Unless it’s a GX style FF camera, which would be appealing to some. 

I won't mind ditching the EVF for a cheaper price, just keep the flip out screen!
 

4 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Sheesh, Panasonic should give the S1 a free update with the codec and recording options of the S5. Otherwise it feels pretty phoney. At least the VLog 10bit update should be free of cost.

Totally, will be kinda weird that the S5 has this but the S1 doesn't:

4 hours ago, ntblowz said:

It can do internal 4K60P in 10bit 420 HEVC, which S1 is only 420 8bit internal in 4K60p.

 

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6 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

Yeah, tiny bit worrisome they are releasing yet another FF camera that has a hard time competing at all. Same with the G100. Like, wtf.

I see it as a lower priced S1, with a few extras. It had Reliability as the USP, right now, along with 10-bit video. 

The G100 seems to have cut too many corners. They could have just put a smaller sensor with IBIS in that. Plus the added crop and other bits, and other things just made that camera seem half baked. 

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I use DCI all the time.  It not being on my GH5 at 25p is a real annoyance.  I can't understand why its not.  R6 apparently has a sensor capable of DCI but doesn't.  There are extra pixels to play with on the A7sIII.  Its things like this that make looking at hybrids for video work frustrating.  

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4 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

In docu-style and bts work most canon and sony have great af one can use all day. This includes anything from concert footage to weddings to convention coverage. I don't understand why this is even up for debate in 2020. Just search on youtube or google about how may professionals are using af in their work now. Even the pros who were skeptical before admit they use it now. Even on  a low budget film try to keep the couple in focus as they walk towards you with lens around f4 and wider especially if light is low. See how many takes you do and watch the focus pullers eyes go bloodshot  and the actors and other crew members lose their attention. You're about to lose all the light and money clock is ticking away. You can't come to this location again and the last 15 takes are all unusable because the one or two good takes the boom messed up or the actors were off. Now do the same shot with a canon cine camera with dpaf.

Panasonic needed to sort this out 2-3 years ago.

This is not how movies work! 

Literally noone uses AF and what you describe is not happening on a pro set of a film.

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4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

 

Totally, will be kinda weird that the S5 has this but the S1 doesn't:

 

Exactely. They should give the S1 the update for free. Plus th 200mbit 10bit in 4K60. Anything else makes me rather want to sell the S1. Even moreso, if the HD out of the S5 is perfect like it is from the GH5.

For the S5, no 24p mode in 10bit in the rumored spec list.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Exactely. They should give the S1 the update for free. Plus th 200mbit 10bit in 4K60. Anything else makes me rather want to sell the S1. Even moreso, if the HD out of the S5 is perfect like it is from the GH5.

For the S5, no 24p mode in 10bit in the rumored spec list.

 

 

Oh god if they give it 4K 60p but not 4K 24p that would be awful.  

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18 minutes ago, Geoff CB said:

Oh god if they give it 4K 60p but not 4K 24p that would be awful.  

these arbitrary limitations do my head in. And they wonder why the industry is dying off. If the hardware can do it - just add it. If you want an entry-level camera cut costs on evf, weather resistant, etc and let consumers decide if they need these hardware options. Don't mess around with this kind of stuff. 

 

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Ok. I know many dps shooting tv dramas, indie and studio films in Korea using af. But I guess your experience and reality is all that matters.

And I specifically said docus, weddings, bts and indie filmmaking so it vibes with most of you in the West but again I guess your 'pro' opinion is reality. Maybe I need to reboot my simulation.

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Panasonic needs to nail AF.  Its the worst of the lot and regardless whether you need it, its a feature that some mark as essential for their work and be a deal breaker for those looking at the camera.

No 24p in 10 bit...  why?  What is it with manufacturers targeting 24p as something to cripple the camera with.  24p, 25p and 30p recording in all modes should be basic features.  I can't see the logic.

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2 hours ago, SteveV4D said:

Panasonic needs to nail AF. 

Yep, should be #1 priority. They have everything else.

The specs seem really good. There has to be a firmware updating coming for the S1 series. No? They must have gotten the message that people want a smaller body.

I’m really interested in what they will price this at and how big the body is, only because they might be using the same body for a GH6. Would make sense to unify the look and reduce costs. Just a theory.

Personally, I don’t mind bigger MFT cameras. when you compare the size of GH5 and A7 cameras they are about the same. The GH5 even a bit chunkier, even.

The G and GX cameras fill the compact MFT camera space for me.

I’d rather have a pro MFT body that feels good in the hands and is jammed packed full of features and a companion G or GX camera to be my b-cam or light pack camera.

Or its all a sign that they are dumping Pro MFT all together...

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3 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

Ok. I know many dps shooting tv dramas, indie and studio films in Korea using af. But I guess your experience and reality is all that matters.

And I specifically said docus, weddings, bts and indie filmmaking so it vibes with most of you in the West but again I guess your 'pro' opinion is reality. Maybe I need to reboot my simulation.

There are people feeding their families just pulling focus. Literally NONE pro scripted work uses AF. Even with C300mkII I was measuring distances.

I do not know what they do on weddings but this is as far as can get for professional video work. Literally anyone can do video for weddings with whatever camera and whatever way.

Do you mean Snowpiercer, Parasites and the Vengeance trilogy was shot on AF?

What cameras and lenses are using on top Korean TV dramas? Who are those DPs?

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So excited for this camera. I love my S1H but use Fuji for photos because the S1H is just too heavy to use as my primary photo camera. But can't stand having multiple mounts and duplicate lenses and using adapters. This camera will become my main photo camera and it looks like it will be a great b-cam and gimbal camera to boot! Hopefully the Panasonic f1.8 primes are announced alongside it.

I really thought they'd cripple this video-wise to leave room for the S1, but this has everything the S1 has and a bit more on the video side! A micro-hdmi is a bummer, but I don't like recording externally anyway and that 10-bit 422 150mbps on the S1 is incredible, so glad to see it here. 

All in all, at nearly 40% the size and weight of the S1, this will be a great addition to the lineup.

--

Now, they really need to figure out a way to update the S1H with 120fps in 4k and keep refining the AF to compete with R5 and A7s3. 8k at GIANT file sizes is not that interesting and the 6k ProRes Raw on the S1H is amazing, so it's already there IQ-wise (and still way nicer than the A7s3 in that regard to my eyes). But 120fps in 4k is useful and should be implemented on the S1H. Even if it has a APS-C crop. 

 

 

 

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