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Panasonic S5 Entry Level Full Frame seems to be real...


jgharding
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19 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

Well, let’s wait and see but yes its disappointing. I can’t see them having the S5 with the the same specs basically as the S1.

Rumored announcements coming in September.

Yeah why would I want to buy the S1 then? I was actually gonna buy one, holding off now. 

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With the V-Log upgrade, the S1 matches the S5 in specs on almost everything (except 10-bit 60fps 4k and some anamorphic modes, perhaps?). But on the S1 you also get: a more robust build, much better EVF, longer battery life, better back monitor, and a top LCD (for those who like that).

While in specs they are (close) to equals, the S5 will definitely be cheaper because those changes are how manufacturers really save money on manufacturing costs. As an S1H owner, I can live with those changes because I'm way more interested in having a smaller, lighter L-Mount camera for photos and a gimbal b-cam when needed. So, very pumped for the S5 and ready to fork over $2k for it, but thinking it will be closer to $1699 - $1799... hopefully. 

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On 8/17/2020 at 7:25 AM, IronFilm said:

I can see AF having a great appeal in lower budget productions (exactly the kinds of ones that would use a C300/FX9! And not an ARRI), where they'll have a 1st AC (because productions need that, even if no focus pulling is being done) but they'll lack the budget for a proper professional career 1st AC.

Instead they'll have say a 2nd AC who is stepping up, or perhaps a videographer who supplements his work with a bit of AC work, and those kinds of folk. 

Thus the bulk of the shooting is done with manual focus pulling on nice cinema lenses, but for tricky shots such as on a gimbal or long tracking shots (which are stretching beyond the capabilities of this focus puller moonlighting as a "1st AC") then they switch over to a native AF lens. 
 

I do sound on a FX9 feature (the DoP told me that he declined the Mini Alexa for this particular project and believes the FX9 was more suited for the task) and we use Canon Cine lenses with wireless focus.

I can see only very young kids and very amateurish "movies" being shot with AF lenses, especially from kids no nothing else than their phone's cameras.

Which AF lens would be similar to real cine primes?

A couple or three years ago I did 1st AC on a documentary on a C300mkII and all the lenses we had were manual, set of primes and a Fujinon/Arri zoom.

Only some very low budgeted productions for internet are shot at 4:2:0 on a Canon C200 with EF lenses, and even there, I tried EF on some very controlled and not very important scenes and that was too risky that I wouldn't dare using it again on more complicated/difficult/essential/important shots.

Anyway, how terrible is the S1 AF? I have never used one, and on this S5 has a lot of AF features (for eye, animal, e.t.c).

I saw the Dual ISO, and I was impressed.

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4 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Anyway, how terrible is the S1 AF?

It's not particularly good in terms of picking out what exactly to focus on. (Although I only have the kit 24-105 lens as a native L Mount lens. My other lenses are either Canon with the MC-21 or some Minolta MD manual focus lenses).

but it is REALLY SMOOTH when it does figure out what you want.

Meaning, that it seems to me to have an ease-in / ease-out effect when you are switching between subjects using AF.

And the Panasonic lenses have minimal focus breathing and are pretty much parfocal unless you are going for extreme focal length change, like going from 24 to 105mm focal length on the 24-105 kit lens - but more modest zooms are parfocal (of course, and f/4 lens probably helps hide any loss in focus)

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The S1's AF with Panasonic, native lenses (or the Sigma 45mm f2.8, which I have also tried) seemed pretty darn good to me. If the subject is clear and there was decent contrast, it seemed pretty darn smooth to me. Where it had trouble is backlit subjects or scenes with very little contrast. But, at the same time, the EOS R and C200 have failed on me consistently under the same conditions and I've missed shots relying on the AF.

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The G9 does well too (better than GH5 and GH5S) when you use a picture profile other than vlogl. I’m not sure if they has to do with more contrast in the image or what. I’m not actually sure where in the pipeline the contrast and DfD optimizations are happening.

But like others have said, with the G9 at least, it performs surprising well. Definitely by far the best contrast only implementation.

I really think they need to overhaul it and give it a new name. Depth from Defocus doesn’t instill much confidence.

I also think improving the tracking, eye, face, and object improves the performance a lot too as the algorithm can work on a smaller area when determining focus.

The sample rate (FPS) helps a lot too. The performance between 24p and 60p is very noticeable.

If you take the direction they have been going with DfD it has been a combination of improving the algorithm and inventing extremely responsive AF motors that can do the “contrast hunt” faster and faster and thus less and less perceived. 

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AF performance differs radically based on lighting. A flatly lit face will track much better than a moodily lit one. Contrasty lighting bit me hard on a C700 shoot, and wasted 5 minutes of valuable setup time wrestling with AF settings. I'm sure it works well for many people and many projects; personally, I'm not ready to give up the level of control I have with a wireless puller.

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8 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

 

And the Panasonic lenses have minimal focus breathing and are pretty much parfocal unless you are going for extreme focal length change, like going from 24 to 105mm focal length on the 24-105 kit lens - but more modest zooms are parfocal (of course, and f/4 lens probably helps hide any loss in focus)

 

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I don't know about the 24-105 but the 24-70 f2.8 seems parfocal to me. When i zoom in it keeps focus without any problem. Panasonic said that they build their S line  lenses for photo and video use, and that is obvious even with cheaper lenses like the 20-60 wich is parfocal if I remember well. 

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Panasonic does a lot great stuff but this is a bit weird move from their side because it seemed like they wanted to position their FF l-mount series as all premium/top of the line (much based on their base lens prices) and now they decide do this. S1 body usually goes brand new for what would equal to $1799 USD (without tax) here in sweden. For me the S1 already feels like the "base"-model, not sure why they would want to go lower if this is the case.

Will be interesting to see how much it will differentiate from the S1. Except for the smaller body (which I prefer so that's good 😀) but specs alone they look pretty similar.

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Outside of a downgraded EVF, monitor, battery, and a few other things, this is basically a small S1. All of those things may matter to some users, but I definitely prefer the smaller body - especially for photo projects. 

Since the S1 is selling for $2k (with a free V-log upgrade) here in the USA, I wonder what this will be. $1699? Would be very competitive at that price.

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On 8/14/2020 at 7:40 AM, Matt Hollman said:

If this camera has PDAF it has a chance in the consumer market. If not then it will be a hard sell I think.

Eggg-zactly....

If it has contrast hunting AF then it's dead on arrival. Sure they will sell some but the market is demanding incredible AF these days. Panasonic is the last big company to not have phase detect AF. They are tbe last man standing and they cannot survive on the "manual AF" crowd in the future.

Panasonic better figure out how to negotiate phase detect AF sensor liscensing from Sony for the GH6. If they cant....they will die.

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6 hours ago, andjo said:

 

Will be interesting to see how much it will differentiate from the S1. Except for the smaller body (which I prefer so that's good 😀) but specs alone they look pretty similar.

 

Not similar, unfortunately for S1 owners. S1 is left in the dust by the S5 with its 10bit codecs and VLOG. For the S1 you have to shell out another 200 EU for that. And still dont have the 10bit 4k60p. Making the S1 not a keeper in the line up. Better to sell now and get the S5. Not so exiting for S1 owners unless Panasonic comes up with a free VLOG 10bit update for the S1. Upgraded HD with quality like that of the GH5 would be nice too. What do you think about this? @Andrew Reid

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