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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K


Yurolov
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It would be interesting to see a signal-to-noise analysis of BRAW at various bitrates vs competing formats.  I doubt we'll see one, but after seeing how h265 is roughly the same as h264 with double the bitrate, it might be a similar situation between BRAW and CDNG formats where BRAW gives similar image quality to a much higher bitrate CDNG stream.

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5 hours ago, kye said:

It would be interesting to see a signal-to-noise analysis of BRAW at various bitrates vs competing formats.  I doubt we'll see one, but after seeing how h265 is roughly the same as h264 with double the bitrate, it might be a similar situation between BRAW and CDNG formats where BRAW gives similar image quality to a much higher bitrate CDNG stream.

i'll bite, how do you do that ? oscilloscope or something else ? i guess its expensive or technical or both

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1 hour ago, leslie said:

i'll bite, how do you do that ? oscilloscope or something else ? i guess its expensive or technical or both

Interesting question. 

You get a reference clip and then encode it to whatever codec you want to measure and then compare the compressed clip to the original and then do some math and get the result.  

The tricky thing is that to compare BRAW with uncompressed RAW with the P4K you would have to point the camera at something recording uncompressed RAW and then set it to compressed BRAW and point the camera at the exact identical same thing, which is practically impossible.  In reality you'd have to be able to take uncompressed RAW and then convert it into BRAW so you had the the same thing in the two codecs, so it's something that only BM would be able to do I think.

I'd bet that looking at signal-to-noise ratios would have been done probably thousands of times during the development of BRAW, and they'd have been comparing it to all the other codecs they could analyse too, but I doubt we'd ever see any of their numbers.

The only way we'd get a glimpse of it would be for someone to buy a P4K, crack it open and then tap into the RAW feed coming off the sensor before it gets to the video processing circuitry and save that stream as uncompressed RAW and let the camera record to BRAW, then to compare those two files.  Of course, they would have to do a similar test for every BRAW setting, and as the codec quality is signal-dependent they'd have to do it many times for each set of settings in order to be able to reliably compare two different compression levels.

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The difference in noise is there...if you look closely and more obvious in 12:1 and 8:1

Been doing a bit of testing at all codecs in detailed scenes - doing people today.

Bottom line so far: As far as actual deliverables for broadcast and web and any practical distribution - the final compression for delivery will negate any differences from Q0 to ProRes HQ.

Frank Glencairn just did a great article on just that.

BM has done such a good jog implimenting ProRes in the new P4k that it's remarkably (indistinguishably) similar to the new highest Braw flavor - Q0. The in camera debayering is handled similarly and it shows. Aside from the larger file size, we're sticking with our ProRes HQ to FCPX work stations for simplicity with no IQ compromise.

It's all good no matter which approach you choose. No end viewer will ever see the difference on screen.

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This video was filmed with the PK4 in cDNG, and a Mavic Pro Drone. To me the gap had changed so much to me at least it is hard to tell the difference between the PK4 and the Drone. And this is a pretty damn good video. I like the look of it.  And I am not knocking the PK4. 4K is pretty much 4K no matter the camera if you are good at editing, Grading, Sure there is a difference between the PK4 and the Drone. But it is not huge anymore like it use to be.  Good for everyone.

 

 

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Hi All,

Been watching this forum since I found out about a certain company called Blackmagic ?

Just in case it helps anyone who is waiting for an PCC4K order from CVP in the UK, I ordered mine on 30th April, I finally got an email about stock the middle of last week, got the camera 1st March.

 

Got a Panasonic Leica 12-60 as my 1st MFT lens so I hope i did not make a mistake but it seems to get positive comments on forums.

 

My camera came with 6.1 software, I just tried the 6.2 update but it sticks on 0% and does not progress, then after 5 mins says failed to update the camera software. Already seen someone on YouTube with the same issue, at least it did not brick the camera..

cheers

Kev

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2 hours ago, Jim Giberti said:

The difference in noise is there...if you look closely and more obvious in 12:1 and 8:1

Been doing a bit of testing at all codecs in detailed scenes - doing people today.

Bottom line so far: As far as actual deliverables for broadcast and web and any practical distribution - the final compression for delivery will negate any differences from Q0 to ProRes HQ.

Frank Glencairn just did a great article on just that.

BM has done such a good jog implimenting ProRes in the new P4k that it's remarkably (indistinguishably) similar to the new highest Braw flavor - Q0. The in camera debayering is handled similarly and it shows. Aside from the larger file size, we're sticking with our ProRes HQ to FCPX work stations for simplicity with no IQ compromise.

It's all good no matter which approach you choose. No end viewer will ever see the difference on screen.

Good to know, thanks for the update. I am waiting on deciding if I want to give the P4K a test ride until it is readily available to buy but my gut reaction is that this is the ProRes camera for a seamless FCPX workflow.

Since I’ve decided to wait a little while to order one, I’ve been a little behind with some of the features. But I recently saw a video where it seems you can set up metadata as if it’s a slate? Does the camera give you a clip of the “slate” at the beginning of your clip as a visual reference, or is it just embedded in the metadata? 

Otherwise, the menu system seems to be simplistic genius and very intuitive. 

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18 minutes ago, mercer said:

Since I’ve decided to wait a little while to order one, I’ve been a little behind with some of the features. But I recently saw a video where it seems you can set up metadata as if it’s a slate? Does the camera give you a clip of the “slate” at the beginning of your clip as a visual reference, or is it just embedded in the metadata? 

It doesn't but I'm curious enough to ask whether you currently use an ios/android app like Movie Slate ?

I'm sure you know where my curiosity may lie for whether this might be something that people would use if it incorporated the camera data ;) 

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2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

It doesn't but I'm curious enough to ask whether you currently use an ios/android app like Movie Slate ?

I'm sure you know where my curiosity may lie for whether this might be something that people would use if it incorporated the camera data ;) 

I don’t but I probably should. I’m getting more into my dialogue scenes soon, so I may. However, since the metadata screen looks like a slate, it would be so great if they gave you a 3-5 second overlay of that “slate” at the start of every clip and perhaps even a pulse tone. 

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44 minutes ago, Newway12 said:

I wouldn’t use b and h. It took forever for me to get mine from them.

i dont think it matters, my bmp4k turned up today and i pre ordered in october, so stick you name on a list and wait like everyone else

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9 hours ago, mercer said:

I don’t but I probably should. I’m getting more into my dialogue scenes soon, so I may. However, since the metadata screen looks like a slate, it would be so great if they gave you a 3-5 second overlay of that “slate” at the start of every clip and perhaps even a pulse tone. 

I have a cunning plan for a new app that might just have some utility in this area;)

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On 3/8/2019 at 6:00 AM, Anaconda_ said:

I think it's a 2x crop on the MFT sensor, so 4x crop of full frame.

Uh, I don't think there is a crop unless shooting at 120fps. 

 

On 3/8/2019 at 1:54 AM, Newway12 said:

I wouldn’t use b and h. It took forever for me to get mine from them.

I think its Blackmagic not B&H, they have always been very fast for me. 

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