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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K


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16 minutes ago, dslnc said:

The thing is - if it can do a 4K/UHD 60p readout. Then it should be possible to do a cropped 1080p240 readout as well ( haha being demanding on my side. Maybe it is saved for a future firmware update )

Hmm.  Maybe it cant scan partial lines?    If the scan duration was proportional to the imaging area then yes it would be able to do 120p at a larger crop than 2x and be able to do 240p at 2x.

So Im thinking the scan speed must be proportional only to the number of lines being scanned.

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5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

There is a reason it is Half the price. It has Half the the features of a GH5, GH5s.

It doesn't have half the features of the GH5/GH5s,  It has different features. Taking the photo side of the GH5 out of the equation, I would say the pocket has more features for video. If you need a hybrid camera obviously the P4K is the wrong choice.

 

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

You are going to have 3 thousand dollars or more tied up in one to make it really work.

I really don't understand this way of thinking. When shooting video, the GH5s only really has AF and a tilt-able screen up it's sleeve compared to the Pocket4k (and better battery life). Yes, AF is handy for shooting home videos, and yes, I wish the Pocket4k had a tiltable screen but to call it a useless camera is pretty silly. I've used it in a run n gun situation with zero accessories and more than happy with the results. How do you get to $3000? Add a $100 monopod, a $180 AndyCine a6 and an NP-F battery (the andycine can power the P4K) or 4 more LP-E6N batteries and you have a run n gun package that will be better than any IBIS can provide. A monopod is the most underrated bit of gear by videographers. Quick to set up, lightweight, easy to carry, versatile... and better than any IBIS or OS.

While AF is nice for home videos, if you want to step up your video game, the sooner you learn to focus manually and ditch stop relying on AF the better. 

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Right out of the box it is pretty useless for a modern camera today.

Are people today born with eyes that can't see, or hands that can't turn a focus barrel? Are they all born with hand tremor? Is a camera without AF or IBIS really useless in todays world? Maybe according to you, but I'm managing to use cameras from many different manufacturers that don't have either features pretty well. In relation to IBIS, while IBIS is nice for Home videos, for anything else, i'd still recommend using a monopod with or without IBIS. Are the X-T3 or GH5s useless today because they lack IBIS? No, people will make great videos with both. 

 

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

And don't give me the ProRes crap. I can buy a 200 dollar Ninja Star and get ProRes on any camera that has a clean HDMI out..

So, you're starting to add accessories? Again, I can easily add the Andycine a6 to the Pocket4K to get the tiltable screen. Speaking of adding accessories, you don't need to add any to get good audio into the P4K which you do for the GH series. So your GH5 has already gone up in price by adding the ninja star and Battery Grip. Talking about the Ninja Star, you do realise it's 1080p only right? To fairly compare to the Pocket4k you need to add the NinjaV which is $599USD. Your GH5 with NinjaV and battery grip to get audio now costs $2946USD but has the advantage of AF. The Pocket 4K with monopod and Andycine a6 cost around $1700. Will you be editing your videos? If so, you will need to add another $299 to get resolve for your GH5 making it closer to $3250.

 

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I bet most people on here had the BMPCC at one time and got rid of it. Sure it was a fabulous camera output wise. But it was a Total pain in the ass to use. And the PK4 is not going to be much different. How many people Still have a BMPCC on here. Damn few I bet, and if they do have it they use it less and less.

The P4K is far easier to use than the OG Pocket you really can't compare. Far better screen and ergonomics make it possible to use handheld. The OG Pocket was way too small to be used in the hand. You really can't put the two cameras in the same category or draw any similarities to them. When I switched to Fuji for stills, I really enjoyed using the camera and this made me want to use it more. In terms of video, so far the Pocket has done the same thing for me. Small package, un fussy menus and a great screen that reward's you instantly when looking at nice shot's. I just want to use it.  

 

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Hey no doubt it is going to have great output if you are good at getting it and can grade well. But that is not going to be a speed demon at doing it. I just find it would work for me, but I just don't see it fitting into most peoples workflow. More of a toy to be honest for most. But nothing wrong with that. I would imagine we all have plenty of toys among us.

It's actually less of a toy than most mirrorless cameras and I'm finding it a joy to use professional. It's far quicker to change settings on it than my X-T2 or the A7 series cameras that I have used as B-Cams before. It's by far more of a proper video tool compared to a hybrid but that's just my opinion. The workflow is not hard, you can bake LUTS in if you need quick turnaround or just use the provided BMD Rec709. I don't see how it's any slower. And if you shoot LOG on the GH5, then that still needs grading in post. 

For anyone reading this, camera brand aside, if you think IBIS and AF are going to make you shoot like a pro and some how magically make your images 'cinematic' ...they won't.

'Out of the box it's useless' ....'need to spend $3000 to make it work'....... 'it's a toy'. Considering you haven't used the camera yet, these are all pretty biased and inaccurate statements that I'd expect to hear out of a Panasonic rep ?

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

It doesn't have half the features of the GH5/GH5s,  It has different features. Taking the photo side of the GH5 out of the equation, I would say the pocket has more features for video. If you need a hybrid camera obviously the P4K is the wrong choice.

 

I really don't understand this way of thinking. When shooting video, the GH5s only really has AF and a tilt-able screen up it's sleeve compared to the Pocket4k (and better battery life). Yes, AF is handy for shooting home videos, and yes, I wish the Pocket4k had a tiltable screen but to call it a useless camera is pretty silly. I've used it in a run n gun situation with zero accessories and more than happy with the results. How do you get to $3000? Add a $100 monopod, a $180 AndyCine a6 and an NP-F battery (the andycine can power the P4K) or 4 more LP-E6N batteries and you have a run n gun package that will be better than any IBIS can provide. A monopod is the most underrated bit of gear by videographers. Quick to set up, lightweight, easy to carry, versatile... and better than any IBIS or OS.

While AF is nice for home videos, if you want to step up your video game, the sooner you learn to focus manually and ditch stop relying on AF the better. 

Are people today born with eyes that can't see, or hands that can't turn a focus barrel? Are they all born with hand tremor? Is a camera without AF or IBIS really useless in todays world? Maybe according to you, but I'm managing to use cameras from many different manufacturers that don't have either features pretty well. In relation to IBIS, while IBIS is nice for Home videos, for anything else, i'd still recommend using a monopod with or without IBIS. Are the X-T3 or GH5s useless today because they lack IBIS? No, people will make great videos with both. 

 

So, you're starting to add accessories? Again, I can easily add the Andycine a6 to the Pocket4K to get the tiltable screen. Speaking of adding accessories, you don't need to add any to get good audio into the P4K which you do for the GH series. So your GH5 has already gone up in price by adding the ninja star and Battery Grip. Talking about the Ninja Star, you do realise it's 1080p only right? To fairly compare to the Pocket4k you need to add the NinjaV which is $599USD. Your GH5 with NinjaV and battery grip to get audio now costs $2946USD but has the advantage of AF. The Pocket 4K with monopod and Andycine a6 cost around $1700. Will you be editing your videos? If so, you will need to add another $299 to get resolve for your GH5 making it closer to $3250.

 

The P4K is far easier to use than the OG Pocket you really can't compare. Far better screen and ergonomics make it possible to use handheld. The OG Pocket was way too small to be used in the hand. You really can't put the two cameras in the same category or draw any similarities to them. When I switched to Fuji for stills, I really enjoyed using the camera and this made me want to use it more. In terms of video, so far the Pocket has done the same thing for me. Small package, un fussy menus and a great screen that reward's you instantly when looking at nice shot's. I just want to use it.  

 

It's actually less of a toy than most mirrorless cameras and I'm finding it a joy to use professional. It's far quicker to change settings on it than my X-T2 or the A7 series cameras that I have used as B-Cams before. It's by far more of a proper video tool compared to a hybrid but that's just my opinion. The workflow is not hard, you can bake LUTS in if you need quick turnaround or just use the provided BMD Rec709. I don't see how it's any slower. And if you shoot LOG on the GH5, then that still needs grading in post. 

For anyone reading this, camera brand aside, if you think IBIS and AF are going to make you shoot like a pro and some how magically make your images 'cinematic' ...they won't.

'Out of the box it's useless' ....'need to spend $3000 to make it work'....... 'it's a toy'. Considering you haven't used the camera yet, these are all pretty biased and inaccurate statements that I'd expect to hear out of a Panasonic rep ?

 

 

 

It is not about being a Pro, it is about making money. You can blow all the shit you want. I haven't heard a damn thing you have Ever posted on here that amounts to a hill of beans. I could care less about your opinion. That probably IS the reason they won't let you on DVXuser.com. Oh I am on there by the way. Have a nice day.

Oh I don't even own a Panasonic camera or a lens of theirs. Or a BM product. No dog in the fight.

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7 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but what is crazy is the GH5s can shoot up to 192fps without cropping the sensor, anything above that up to 240fps it has a slight sensor crop. But up to 240fps! Impressive. So it is not the sensor in the PK4, it is a sensor processing problem. Too much data to handle I guess with it''s Codec.

I don't get why there is so much dislike for the GH5s on this site. It does just about everything you could want. You can put a Speedbooster on it and be a bit larger than s35. So it is a modern day, even better for slo mo camera than a Sony FS700 in a tiny package compared to it. And used they are damn near the same money. And FS700 Color Science is pretty damn terrible to be honest.

Because the people who always shoot manual think that the AF is not up to Canon's standards.

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10 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

It is not about being a Pro, it is about making money. You can blow all the shit you want. I haven't heard a damn thing you have Ever posted on here that amounts to a hill of beans. I could care less about your opinion. That probably IS the reason they won't let you on DVXuser.com. Oh I am on there by the way. Have a nice day.

Very constructive....and why the aggression?

Blow all the shit you want? Unlike your comments, I'd like to think mine are quite constructive  . Your totalitarian comment's are completely unproven. Plenty of good quality videos are made without IBIS or AF. Simple......as.....that!

And in terms of making money, i'm finding it easier getting the Pocket4k on gigs as a BCam than the mirrorless DSLR's Ive used previously. Producers rather a camera that shoot's ProRes, and has Timecode capability etc. In the same way that producers prefer my FS7 with the Timecode back to an FS7 without it 

 

I am on DVX user by the way. It's BMCuser that I can't post on purely because the mods haven't activated the permissions yet. They are apparently quite slow at doing it.

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Just now, A_Urquhart said:

Very constructive....and why the aggression?

Blow all the shit you want? Unlike your comments, I'd like to think mine are quite constructive  . Your totalitarian comment's are completely unproven. Plenty of good quality videos are ade without IBIS or AF. Simple......as.....that!

 

I am on DVX user by the way. It's BMCuser that I can't post on. 

Oh I am on that also. And I will try harder to like you. You made some good, valid points. ?

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17 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Oh I am on that also. And I will try harder to like you. You made some good, valid points. ?

Spare me....usually people resort to aggression like that when they have nothing valid to say. 

19 minutes ago, Snuff said:

Great review: super audio test and comparison with Ursa and Old Pocket.

 

Thanks Snuff but this guy must work for BMD as he's not hating on the camera enough ?

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Moving on, while brief, It was nice to see the P4K side by side with the UMP and OG pocket. The OG pocket definitely didn't seem to have any 'mojo' in the shot provided!

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1 hour ago, A_Urquhart said:

It doesn't have half the features of the GH5/GH5s,  It has different features. Taking the photo side of the GH5 out of the equation, I would say the pocket has more features for video. If you need a hybrid camera obviously the P4K is the wrong choice.

 

I really don't understand this way of thinking. When shooting video, the GH5s only really has AF and a tilt-able screen up it's sleeve compared to the Pocket4k (and better battery life). Yes, AF is handy for shooting home videos, and yes, I wish the Pocket4k had a tiltable screen but to call it a useless camera is pretty silly. I've used it in a run n gun situation with zero accessories and more than happy with the results. How do you get to $3000? Add a $100 monopod, a $180 AndyCine a6 and an NP-F battery (the andycine can power the P4K) or 4 more LP-E6N batteries and you have a run n gun package that will be better than any IBIS can provide. A monopod is the most underrated bit of gear by videographers. Quick to set up, lightweight, easy to carry, versatile... and better than any IBIS or OS.

While AF is nice for home videos, if you want to step up your video game, the sooner you learn to focus manually and ditch stop relying on AF the better. 

Are people today born with eyes that can't see, or hands that can't turn a focus barrel? Are they all born with hand tremor? Is a camera without AF or IBIS really useless in todays world? Maybe according to you, but I'm managing to use cameras from many different manufacturers that don't have either features pretty well. In relation to IBIS, while IBIS is nice for Home videos, for anything else, i'd still recommend using a monopod with or without IBIS. Are the X-T3 or GH5s useless today because they lack IBIS? No, people will make great videos with both. 

 

So, you're starting to add accessories? Again, I can easily add the Andycine a6 to the Pocket4K to get the tiltable screen. Speaking of adding accessories, you don't need to add any to get good audio into the P4K which you do for the GH series. So your GH5 has already gone up in price by adding the ninja star and Battery Grip. Talking about the Ninja Star, you do realise it's 1080p only right? To fairly compare to the Pocket4k you need to add the NinjaV which is $599USD. Your GH5 with NinjaV and battery grip to get audio now costs $2946USD but has the advantage of AF. The Pocket 4K with monopod and Andycine a6 cost around $1700. Will you be editing your videos? If so, you will need to add another $299 to get resolve for your GH5 making it closer to $3250.

 

The P4K is far easier to use than the OG Pocket you really can't compare. Far better screen and ergonomics make it possible to use handheld. The OG Pocket was way too small to be used in the hand. You really can't put the two cameras in the same category or draw any similarities to them. When I switched to Fuji for stills, I really enjoyed using the camera and this made me want to use it more. In terms of video, so far the Pocket has done the same thing for me. Small package, un fussy menus and a great screen that reward's you instantly when looking at nice shot's. I just want to use it.  

 

It's actually less of a toy than most mirrorless cameras and I'm finding it a joy to use professional. It's far quicker to change settings on it than my X-T2 or the A7 series cameras that I have used as B-Cams before. It's by far more of a proper video tool compared to a hybrid but that's just my opinion. The workflow is not hard, you can bake LUTS in if you need quick turnaround or just use the provided BMD Rec709. I don't see how it's any slower. And if you shoot LOG on the GH5, then that still needs grading in post. 

For anyone reading this, camera brand aside, if you think IBIS and AF are going to make you shoot like a pro and some how magically make your images 'cinematic' ...they won't.

'Out of the box it's useless' ....'need to spend $3000 to make it work'....... 'it's a toy'. Considering you haven't used the camera yet, these are all pretty biased and inaccurate statements that I'd expect to hear out of a Panasonic rep ?

 

 

 

I summed up all that in a Laughing reaction.    But thanks for spending the time to flesh it out.

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8 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I used to work in advertising operating specialized high speed cameras, and as YOU mentioned on a little while ago, can't stand slow motion videos at all anymore!

Your comment has lead me to think a bit more about slow-motion.  The below isn't directed at you, just inspired by you :)

I think the topic of slow-motion is an interesting one.  I agree that it is over-used and especially over-used in camera tests and on YouTube where people are failing over each other to try and make their footage more cinematic instead of making it more creative / useful / interesting / etc.

I have my camera setup with three modes - one is 25p, one is 50p, and one is 180p.  I don't think of them like that though, I think of them for the aesthetic that they will give to the footage they will create.

I shoot home videos, and my goal is to make a video file with the aesthetic of fond memories.  This means things can be slightly warmer, softer, nicer, more flattering, and less real than reality actually is.  Also, because the brain doesn't process memories in linear time (think of memories of loved ones, a toddler running around, someone giving someone a hug, etc..  you can easily slow these down in your minds eye, in fact, often we slow and almost stop memories, like they're not a continuous stream of perception but little bubbles of moments) so speed and slow motion in my work are far more flexible, and far more compatible than most other genres.

I think of 25p as reality.  "Here's what happened".  Shots like this are about content alone, where the emotion isn't going to dominate.  I can slow these down in post but it's not as good.

I think of 50p as flexible.  I can slow it down to half speed or play it back at normal speed.  Normal speed will look like video, which I'm fine with, and slow-motion is slow and slightly dreamy but doesn't look fake.  Hollywood uses 50p for the shots when emotions are at the forefront, there is action, and they have music instead of real-life sound (eg, someone is sad and they're running away from their troubles, someone is happy and things are great, etc).  It's kind of makes fast motion gentle but doesn't look like a special effect.

I think of 180p as a special effect.  It's very obvious as a special effect, and even with modern cameras you lose quality so should only use this on things where you want that effect - it's not a flexible mode.  For me this would be for very fast action and because a 3s shot in the edit will represent less than half a second of real-life it's about moments, rather than a sequence of events.  I think of this as almost like 'moving photographs'.  This is where we think of things like a kid running and making all the birds take off, and a photographer would get the shot with the kid running, smiling and the birds going everywhere, in this mode we can use the same moment but we can savour that 0.4 of a second over several seconds in the final edit, along with nice music.

I'll reiterate that most people over-use it, and we should be critical of it being over-used, but the criticism shouldn't be that it's not needed, the criticism should be that it's being applied where it is not aesthetically useful to do so.  While this isn't as dramatic as taking the opposite stance of 'always/never' thinking, it's actually more cutting because we're not criticising the use of a camera feature, we're criticising the offenders ability to know how to make art, which is ultimately the most significant criticism that can be made I think.

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Funny how people on here say they don’t want the camera but still come back to have opinions about it, a camera barely no one has their hands on yet and they probably have never even seen in real life on top of that.

 

As someone who owns it (and loves it!) and also still owns the OG pocket, I can let you know that with both cameras I get paid 700dollars a day to take pictures with them. Funny right!

 

Next week is first day to take pictures with the P4K actually. I have a very simple work flow with it, just load your DNG into ACR and voila! Here’s a load of pictures taken with OG pocket if you wanna have a look;

https://www.olarch.com/retail

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46 minutes ago, Turboguard said:

Funny how people on here say they don’t want the camera but still come back to have opinions about it, a camera barely no one has their hands on yet and they probably have never even seen in real life on top of that.

 

As someone who owns it (and loves it!) and also still owns the OG pocket, I can let you know that with both cameras I get paid 700dollars a day to take pictures with them. Funny right!

 

Next week is first day to take pictures with the P4K actually. I have a very simple work flow with it, just load your DNG into ACR and voila! Here’s a load of pictures taken with OG pocket if you wanna have a look;

https://www.olarch.com/retail

Why did you choose to take stills with the pocket?

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1 hour ago, Turboguard said:

Funny how people on here say they don’t want the camera but still come back to have opinions about it, a camera barely no one has their hands on yet and they probably have never even seen in real life on top of that.

 

As someone who owns it (and loves it!) and also still owns the OG pocket, I can let you know that with both cameras I get paid 700dollars a day to take pictures with them. Funny right!

 

Next week is first day to take pictures with the P4K actually. I have a very simple work flow with it, just load your DNG into ACR and voila! Here’s a load of pictures taken with OG pocket if you wanna have a look;

https://www.olarch.com/retail

Those are pretty damn amazing. WTF. I have gotten some pretty good stuff with the A7s also. Doesn't take as many MP as some people think.

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Given sufficient quality, which is less than people think as @webrunner5 says, a video camera can be viewed as 25 fps burst mode (or even 50/60 fps) stills camera.

Why bother with trying to nail 'the decisive moment' when you can find that moment in post and extract a still.

You can say that is lazy, or you can say that it's using the technology to get better results, but you can't deny that it can work.

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USB C storage:

has anybody with the camera in hand tried custom NVMe ssd + enclosures for external recording?

Something like this or similar:

https://www.transcend-info.com/Products/No-760

 

the Samsung 970 Evo are fair priced and really fast toping out at 2500MB/s write speed

And the new released Corsair Force 510 are even higher performing and more aggressive  priced (2TB for less than $500!) and write speeds that exceeds 3000MB/s

the usb interface theoretically tops out at 1280MB/s (if it is 10Gb). Not sure if camera usb bandwidth can handle those speeds but at least the bottleneck will not be the media. And price/performance will be better than cfast for raw (sure, with other inconveniences like have the storage externaly)

Any opinions, real world experiences?

 

cheers

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