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Panasonic S5 Entry Level Full Frame seems to be real...


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Kaboom, it's arrived! Sorry, no YouTube unboxing video or reading of spec list, just an initial impression whilst the battery is charging. I've come from 8-9 years of Fuji as my main cameras

2020 and Panasonic still hasn't sorted out their af smh

Little Photoshop size comparison between this and the S1H. Quite smaller !

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42 minutes ago, Bandido said:

PDAF, PDAF, PDAF....That is what everybody wants to see. It is the year 2020 Panasonic. It is time to join Canon, Sony, and Nikon.

Ok...lets clear up some common misunderstandings....

Panasonic does NOT hate phase detect AF

Panasonic has PDAF cameras in their labs and PERFECTLY understands how much better they perform over contrast hunting AF

Panasonic is absolutely, completely, 100%...PAINFULLY...aware that they are at the bottom of the industry AF performance list....and will stay there with contrast hunting AF.

Panasonic is again....PAINFULLY...aware that being the only major company without PDAF is killing their sales numbers. They FULLY understand this at every level.

Panasonic is not "stupid" or "arrogant" or "stubborn" or "blind" as many of declared.

Panasonic wishes they were not in the situation that they are in today with AF. They don't WANT to be in this situation!!

However,...Panasonic engineers are given non-PDAF sensors and YES!!...this SUCKS!  Their task is to make the best contrast AF they can with the sensors they have. These guys are trying as hard as they can! They are given lemons and asked to make lemonade.

Politics between Sony and Panasonic are very complicated. Today, Panasonic is stuck where they are. Hopefully things will change in the future but for now, this is the reality they MUST live with.

Everybody just blindly blames Panasonic for being "stubburn" with holding on to  contrast AF.....I really wish it was that simple of a problem that so many think it is.

Guys....Its just not that simple as we make it out to be.

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@Cliff Totten serious question and I have no idea in regard to the answer but if Panasonic are painfully aware they are lacking in the AF department, why?

These sensors they are ‘given’, who is ‘giving’ them?

They are either making their own or buying them in but in either case they are 100% responsible.

No one is making them not use a PDAF system as far as I am aware?

But I know nothing, especially anything techy. I just like stuff that works and I ‘give’ my money to companies that make things work.

 

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37 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

@Cliff Totten serious question and I have no idea in regard to the answer but if Panasonic are painfully aware they are lacking in the AF department, why?

These sensors they are ‘given’, who is ‘giving’ them?

They are either making their own or buying them in but in either case they are 100% responsible.

No one is making them not use a PDAF system as far as I am aware?

But I know nothing, especially anything techy. I just like stuff that works and I ‘give’ my money to companies that make things work.

 

The GH5 and GH5-S are Sony IMX272 and IMX299 sensors. I don't know if these Sony sensors have PDAF photosites or not. "If" they do have PDAF photosites like their MFT cousins on the Olympus side, then Panasonic does not have the liscense from Sony to use them. I don't know.

Anyway...on the full frame war. Who else besides Sony makes full frame PDAF sensors with EXMOR patents and on-board A/D converters? Where else is Panasonic going to go if they can't negotiate with Sony? Cmosis?  Aptina? Sure they could buy other sensors without Sony architecture patents......and sit back and watch their camera get smashed on test sites like this or YouTube when compared to a Sony camera. They HAVE to buy from Sony to compete with Sony.

My source (this means "rumor") tells me that politics between Sony and Panasonic are very "complicated". 

I dont know. I am not in those Panasonic/ Sony sensor licensing/purchasing  meetings and very few people in Japan actually are.

Bottom line?....guys don't blame Panasonic so hard for not having PDAF sensor liscensing. Its not their fault in the way many people are guessing.

Panasonic engineers (at their level) are doing the very best they can with the sensors they have.

Again...they FULLY understand the contrast hunting AF hole that they are in. 

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Sony sells sensors to Nikon for mirrorless and they have PDAF.

I suspect as Cliff says it's down to a historically, long running 'complicated' relationship between Sony and Panasonic. Not dissimilar to the 'complicated' relationship between Samsung and Apple. The semiconducter fabs want to sell a ton of silicon whilst retaining market advantage.

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1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

@Cliff Totten serious question and I have no idea in regard to the answer but if Panasonic are painfully aware they are lacking in the AF department, why?

These sensors they are ‘given’, who is ‘giving’ them?

They are either making their own or buying them in but in either case they are 100% responsible.

No one is making them not use a PDAF system as far as I am aware?

But I know nothing, especially anything techy. I just like stuff that works and I ‘give’ my money to companies that make things work.

 

Well, it is possible that Sony or whatever manufacturer have 'deals' or 'contracts' in which they sell their sensors to Panasonic, but without PDAF. I mean, when the Sony A73 / Nikon Z6 / S1 came out they all had similar specs. The S1 was even above the other two video-wise, but was lacking PDAF. Maybe they simply aren't allowed to or not getting the sensors with PDAF, because they are going into Sony bodies.

Panasonic sells too few camera's to make their own sensors I think. It's simply a very expensive and complex manufacturing process. And they also sell too few camera's to make high demands when they sign the deals with sensor manufacturers. And therefore they go all out with the other hardware and specs. They have to compensate for the lack of good AF.

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I'm just tired of everybody saying

"Panasonic is stupid"

"Panasonic is arrogant"

"Panasonic doesnt understand how PDAF works and why is great"

"Panasonic thinks DfD is better than PDAF"

Ugg....Panasonuc being stuck without PDAF has NOTHING to do with that crap.

People also make this RIDUCULAS statement"

"Sony imaging and Sony Semiconductor are two SEPERATE companies.....and Semiconductor has ZERO concerns with the heath or competition if imaging'

I mean, this one guy told me "Semiconductor just wants to sell sensors, they don't care at all if Imaging dies or not"

Who believes that??? 

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21 minutes ago, Origami101 said:

Cliff, are you basing this on any firsthand knowledge? Or is it just speculation that, of all the companies in the industry, Sony Semiconductor refuses to sell PDAF sensors to Panasonic?

No...this is true gossip. I know somebody who is a sensor engineer and his company has fab'd with Sony before. So he knows them fairly well as an engineering customer.

However,...this is only industry insider "chatter" and nothing that Panasonic or Sony has ever publically stated is a problem between them. You can bet your life that Sony and Panasonic will never discuss this publically or out in the open.

Treat this as a rumor only.....

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Wow. This is sounding amazing for the S5. I almost DO NOT want the new Panasonic S5 to be too cheap with its launch price, otherwise I'll need to seriously reconsider my plan to get a Panasonic G9

But anyway, I've pushed any camera buying thoughts off into the future, as I just am about to spend thousands and thousands of dollars more on audio gear. Will be broke for a while, especially in this current economic environment.  

  

8 hours ago, Davos said:

I suspect as Cliff says it's down to a historically, long running 'complicated' relationship between Sony and Panasonic. Not dissimilar to the 'complicated' relationship between Samsung and Apple.

Or the "complicated" relationship between myself and my GF

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Or the "complicated" relationship between myself and my GF

At least you don’t have to explain to your wife that you are about to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on audio equipment in this current economic environment.

3 minutes ago, amateurmike said:

How good are the S1/S1H at focus peaking?  I always think manual focus is good enough, but then I have the a6500, which has great focus peaking. If a camera doesn't have a good AF, then maybe focus peaking will not be good either?  Does anybody have any experience with both cases? 

Its good but not great. It tends to be slightly off, much better when you use the zoom function and peaking enabled but we can’t do that when live recording ;-(

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