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Andrew Reid

EOS R official video specs discussion

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Nikon has the freedom of not cannibalizing a video camera lines. If I was Nikon I would make even a more video centric version just to put pressure on Canon and Sony to cannibalize their video product line or even take some business away from them. If they were able to make a larger version with a screen that flipped out and internal recording, perhaps even better IBIS video (approach GH5) they would put so much pressure on Canon. 

 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

No IBIS, no Log, no 10-bit, Cropped 4K is my guess. No 120fps in 1080p already confirmed.

I think the EOS R is mainly focused on stills and video for the casual / vlogger people (DPAF & Flip screen is what they'll put forward).

For serious uncompromised video Canon invites you to try their C line of products.

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Hopefully I'm wrong but my bet is that it will have a 4k crop.

With the stated still horizontal resolution of 6720, a 1:1 quad-hd 3840 wide crop will be a 1.75x crop.   Other people have already mentioned that this was the crop for the 5d mk4 when it came out.  They decreased the crop with a firmware update but it required a better head sink being installed.  Will this have a big heat sink from the start? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

But if it is a 1.75 crop it doesn't represent a good value proposition.  The GH5s and bmpcc4k have a 1.85 crop so not much difference, and no chance the canon will come close to matching their other specs.   Can you imagine spending all that money on a full frame camera and expensive ridiculously heavy full frame f2 zoom lens and then you can only utilise 33% of it?  When you can practically achieve the same thing with a £500 worth of crop sensor camera and lens.      I actually think that 28 - 70 with an f2 max aperture is really useful range for an apsc sensor, but if it didn't need to cover full frame it could be a damn sight lighter than 1.5kg

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Having a fully equipped A7III, these specs are underwhelming. At least for me there’s  no reason to think on buying this.

At this time it’s better to think on the new A7SIII for a new body (with the A7III as B cam) or jump to a really noticeable improvement like the BMPCC 4K. And maaaaaaybe think on Canon with their cinema cameras like the C200 and C300II.

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35 minutes ago, MattH said:

With the stated still horizontal resolution of 6720, a 1:1 quad-hd 3840 wide crop will be a 1.75x crop.   Other people have already mentioned that this was the crop for the 5d mk4 when it came out.  They decreased the crop with a firmware update but it required a better head sink being installed.  Will this have a big heat sink from the start? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

the crop factor on 5D4 hasn't decreased since it came out.. and certainly not with a firmware update or heat sink being put inside it?!

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1 hour ago, MattH said:

Hopefully I'm wrong but my bet is that it will have a 4k crop.

With the stated still horizontal resolution of 6720, a 1:1 quad-hd 3840 wide crop will be a 1.75x crop.   Other people have already mentioned that this was the crop for the 5d mk4 when it came out.  They decreased the crop with a firmware update but it required a better head sink being installed.  Will this have a big heat sink from the start? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

But if it is a 1.75 crop it doesn't represent a good value proposition.  The GH5s and bmpcc4k have a 1.85 crop so not much difference, and no chance the canon will come close to matching their other specs.   Can you imagine spending all that money on a full frame camera and expensive ridiculously heavy full frame f2 zoom lens and then you can only utilise 33% of it?  When you can practically achieve the same thing with a £500 worth of crop sensor camera and lens.      I actually think that 28 - 70 with an f2 max aperture is really useful range for an apsc sensor, but if it didn't need to cover full frame it could be a damn sight lighter than 1.5kg

That's the thing. We're paying for FULL FRAME lenses. A very nice one, in the case of that groundbreaking 28-70mm F2.0 (Although I am 99% sure Sigma is working on one as well, for EF, Nikon and Sony E mount).

What's the point if we can't use them? May as well put a Speed Booster on it and use something else.

Do Canon want to sell their mirrorless lenses, or not?

I really thought the high-end full frame mirrorless would be when they woke up to what modern video users need. Apparently not. They are still more interested in segmenting the stills and video market with a big wall.

Who is going to want to shoot 1.75x crop (worse if you calculate diagonal as well), with no IBIS, on a $2k+ zoom that has no wide angle end? Especially when you can choose a Nikon Z7, Z6, A7 III, A7R III or wait for the upcoming Panasonic monster cam.

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1 hour ago, Django said:

the crop factor on 5D4 hasn't decreased since it came out.. and certainly not with a firmware update or heat sink being put inside it?!

Ah! Ok I jumped the gun.  To be honest I'm a little behind on the video gearhead specs info so I did a search to find out what the 5D mk4 4k crop was and found this-

https://petapixel.com/2017/03/29/canon-5d-mark-iv-firmware-update-reduce-4k-crop-1-74x-1-27x/

-and automatically assumed it was legit without reading the whole thing.  So included it to cover my ass.  But at the bottom of course it says "For now, none of this has been confirmed or officially released by Canon, so take it with the appropriate amount of repressed hopes."

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1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

That's the thing. We're paying for FULL FRAME lenses. A very nice one, in the case of that groundbreaking 28-70mm F2.0 (Although I am 99% sure Sigma is working on one as well, for EF, Nikon and Sony E mount).

What's the point if we can't use them? May as well put a Speed Booster on it and use something else.

Do Canon want to sell their mirrorless lenses, or not?

I really thought the high-end full frame mirrorless would be when they woke up to what modern video users need. Apparently not. They are still more interested in segmenting the stills and video market with a big wall.

Who is going to want to shoot 1.75x crop (worse if you calculate diagonal as well), with no IBIS, on a $2k+ zoom that has no wide angle end? Especially when you can choose a Nikon Z7, Z6, A7 III, A7R III or wait for the upcoming Panasonic monster cam.

Its a 1.75 crop of a full frame 16:9 crop.  I figure when talking about video 'full frame' means what you get in video mode on a full frame camera.   But its kind of spliting hairs anyway.   A slight 1.2 or 1.25 crop would be bearable but anything more than 1.4 and it ceases to make sense unless you've got money to burn.

And putting a speed booster to boost a full frame lens on a full frame camera would just feel weird.   Almost a shameful waste of money for the speedboster.  And embarrassing like you have to look round first before attaching it.  Thinking about it reminds me of this sketch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGSxgGXOh-A

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For video production, this camera would be a poor choice and it’s evident very little effort has been put into the video features.

Even Fuji is now eclipsing Canon for video in this segment. Wow. 

Also the top end C-series is very underwhelming considering what else is on offer. 

It’s probably best to forget your dreams of owning a Canon for video to cover most of your bases. The choice elsewhere doesn’t disappoint. 

 

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6 hours ago, salim said:

Nikon has the freedom of not cannibalizing a video camera lines.

It could be said that mirrorless cameras don't actually cannibalize pro video camera sales. Sony don't seem to think so. Neither do Panasonic. Canon clearly has a different opinion. But if you look at their Cinema EOS cameras at the moment, they're not even that hot either. I think Canon is behaving tired, almost. Depressed, even. They need new top-management. The current bunch are just too elderly and too risk averse to truly allow creative freedom across each product line.

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The stupid thing about cannibalizing their pro video line is that, even if they put almost every feature into a smaller mirrorless camera, a large segment of that pro line market will still buy the cinema cameras anyway. I can't tell you how many people I know that own C200's or whatever that don't really do anything with it that they couldn't also do with the 1D X or the 5D mk IV (assuming they insist on staying in the Canon family.) They own them as much for the "prestige" or credibility as much as the functionality. It's about ego and image, not practicality and quality for a lot of people. 

It's like projects I've helped on where they insisted on renting a RED camera and lenses, spending as much on that as they would've spent on buying a GH5, Sony A7Sii or comparable camera that they could've used on their next project. Tons of indie films that never make money and hardly get seen do this, and for no reason. 

I'm guilty of it myself, on a smaller scale. I love my LS300 but I don't really need it anymore since I've got a GH5 and G85. However on certain projects I bring it when I have a feeling that the client will look poorly on me using what looks like normal cameras instead of a more professional looking one. And while the LS300 doesn't have the greatest build quality, once you rig it up with monitors and stuff it looks a lot more professional than my GH5 set up. 

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10 hours ago, Django said:

I wouldn't hold my breath. Canon slapped a 8-bit 4:2:0 codec in their $7,500 C200.. no way they're going 10-bit on their entry MILC. That's not the Canon way.

Well to be fair that is their low end option in that camera. They do also offer RAW in camera too. 8-bit 4:2:0 has it's place. 

10 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I would kind of be amazed if it doesn't have 10bit with HDMI out. Both the Nikon Z6 and Z7 have 10 bit out. You know Canon and Nikon have moles in each others company's. I can't believe Canon would let Nikon outdo them with that spec. 

So they knew they were being outdone on every spec yet this is the one that they wouldn't let go through? Don't think so. 

10 hours ago, ajay said:

Don't forget that Nikon doesn't have a cinema line of cameras to protect. I bet no 10-bit anything.

Yep. Although conceivably they could always make one if they are getting serious about video with this new mount. Canon are putting 12bit RAW into their 'entry level' C-series line, so 10bit out (or even internal) is not completely out of the realms of possibility, but still feels unlikely (happy to be dead wrong). 

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13 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

About the only improvement over the 5D Mark IV seems to be substituting MJPEG for H.264. Not that it was overdue or anything!

Yet MJPEG is All-I too, 8bit 4:2:2 at 500Mbps... So what is the big advantage? Plus that was for DCI 4K. 

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6 hours ago, Shirozina said:

Clearly this is a stills orientated camera - move along now.....

Even then it can only do 5fps (ai servo) with a tiny buffer. Even less than 5fps if you use dpaf, 3fps supposedly.. 

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9 hours ago, ajay said:

Maybe when their sales figures suffer they will add C-Log for $100.

Look how much it helped 5D IV sales. 

9 hours ago, MattH said:

With the stated still horizontal resolution of 6720, a 1:1 quad-hd 3840 wide crop will be a 1.75x crop.   Other people have already mentioned that this was the crop for the 5d mk4 when it came out.  They decreased the crop with a firmware update but it required a better head sink being installed.  Will this have a big heat sink from the start? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

That was rumours, they never changed the crop. The only they did was add C-Log through a protected firmware update (i.e. has to be installed by Canon not user installed). 

9 hours ago, MattH said:

actually think that 28 - 70 with an f2 max aperture is really useful range for an apsc sensor, but if it didn't need to cover full frame it could be a damn sight lighter than 1.5kg

I doubt it would be 'much' different. 

8 hours ago, Django said:

the crop factor on 5D4 hasn't decreased since it came out.. and certainly not with a firmware update or heat sink being put inside it?!

Definitely not! There was a rumour by fanboys that they were doing some amazing turn around in video specs, but they just released the paid C-Log update instead. Funny how difficult fact and fiction are to seperate these days. Like how everyone is clinging to a $1900 price tag when that rumour was clearly wrong about everything else. 

4 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Also the top end C-series is very underwhelming considering what else is on offer. 

C700 is underwhelming? Done a lot of production on it? 

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

That's the thing. We're paying for FULL FRAME lenses. A very nice one, in the case of that groundbreaking 28-70mm F2.0 (Although I am 99% sure Sigma is working on one as well, for EF, Nikon and Sony E mount).

Sony had a GM supposedly, or certainly patents for one. 

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

What's the point if we can't use them? May as well put a Speed Booster on it and use something else.

Or use the much lower cost Sigma 1.8s for crop. 

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Do Canon want to sell their mirrorless lenses, or not?

Sure do. But I guess they aren't 'too' concerned about selling them to the EOSHD crowd. I think they still think they can undercook it and get sales. This whole release (and Nikon's too) read as this: "we think Sony sell well because they are mirrorless and for no other reason. If we make our existing products mirrorless they will sell well too". Which is very narrow thinking. 

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

really thought the high-end full frame mirrorless would be when they woke up to what modern video users need. Apparently not. They are still more interested in segmenting the stills and video market with a big wall.

To be fair this is the launch of a new 'system'. This camera represents only one model in said system. Sony didn't do anything 'special' in video with E-Mount until the FS series and the A7S series. Same with Panasonic. Just because those brands have video-centric models doesn't mean this is fair to compare against those. It is inevitable that Canon will have more models in the the range using the RF mount including a (likely) video-centric model, compact model and high res model (at least). 

7 hours ago, MattH said:

-and automatically assumed it was legit without reading the whole thing.  So included it to cover my ass.  But at the bottom of course it says "For now, none of this has been confirmed or officially released by Canon, so take it with the appropriate amount of repressed hopes."

Yeah it was just hopes and dreams made from fanboy tears. 

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

They need new top-management. The current bunch are just too elderly and too risk averse to truly allow creative freedom across each product line.

They sure do. Although I would argue they are being creative (way more than Nikon) with their lenses releases for this - Which is what Canon are known for. It's a VERY good reason to buy this system. 

 

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