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Andrew Reid

Canon EOS R5 / R6 overheating discussion all in one place

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20 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

 No camera this size and price in the world today shoots 4K120P full frame 10 bit 422. It’s unheard off.

Actually, a camera this size and price, shooting 4K 120fps fullframe 10 bit 422 continously without overheating is unheard of.  Probably because it is impossible without making it slightly bigger and incorporating a fan.  

I'm sure the R5s unique features will be matched by competitors eventually, maybe as soon as next year; and will probably be more reliable and useful as well.  Theres always a price for early adopters.  

What's the point of innovation if many of us can't use it practically?

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

I don't really understand why there hasn't been more structured testing of this issue by the people who have them because, like it or not, the heat management is too big to ignore.

What is needed is a pocket sized battery powered HDMI recorder that can be connected to the output of the camera and automatically continuously overlay both time and ambient air temperature on the video recording and that will carry on recording regardless of whether the camera is switched on and outputting or not. That way, people can then use the camera however they want for the day in whatever usage patterns they usually use and in the environment they use it and they can then present the whole picture of what happens in their real world usage.

No notes or measurements to take, just use it as they would normally and then analyse its behaviour later.

And more to the point, prove it.

Such a device would put an end to all of the noise that is being generated by the scattergun testing.

Fortunately, I've actually developed such a device today 🙂

and here is  a (low res) grab of the output video from it being used just now with my Sigma fP.

vlcsnap-2020-07-25-19h54m26s297.thumb.jpg.1a2fbb3aa26c1b3d82ce6b85ec707fb5.jpg

Needless to say, as soon as - or if - @Andrew Reid gets his hands on a production R5 for testing then he is more than welcome to use it to run some real world tests.

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It is disappointing, though not a lawsuit-inducing problem. I have a shoot next week where I have a B-Cam on a car mount for the duration of the shoot while I operate the A-Cam (a C300 III). I use Canon's C-Series most often for my work and like to have a B-Cam with the same mount (EF with adapter is fine) and color and from the same manufacturer. It just makes things easy. Even if the R5 was released before the shoot, I wouldn't dare use the R5 or R6 for such a shoot because it may record for 30-minutes straight and then have to keep going (which those two cameras obviously won't do).

At this point, The S1H or the GH5 are the only mirrorless cameras I would trust with such a job.

When the EVA-2 comes out with an L-Mount, I'd much rather have that and the S1H as a pair than the C300 III/R5. But the S1H has such a nice image, it makes buying an $11k cinema camera not such a big deal. 

Wish it was a bit lighter and smaller for gimbal usage, but at least I know it's going to work. 

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14 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

It is disappointing, though not a lawsuit-inducing problem. I have a shoot next week where I have a B-Cam on a car mount for the duration of the shoot while I operate the A-Cam (a C300 III). I use Canon's C-Series most often for my work and like to have a B-Cam with the same mount (EF with adapter is fine) and color and from the same manufacturer. It just makes things easy. Even if the R5 was released before the shoot, I wouldn't dare use the R5 or R6 for such a shoot because it may record for 30-minutes straight and then have to keep going (which those two cameras obviously won't do).

At this point, The S1H or the GH5 are the only mirrorless cameras I would trust with such a job.

When the EVA-2 comes out with an L-Mount, I'd much rather have that and the S1H as a pair than the C300 III/R5. But the S1H has such a nice image, it makes buying an $11k cinema camera not such a big deal. 

Wish it was a bit lighter and smaller for gimbal usage, but at least I know it's going to work. 

You forgot a BMPCC 4k & 6K. They won't overheat. 

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It is like to hear Adobe says that Premiere is PRO software. With its sudden crashes for no reason, export error and captions troubles since 2018 and a lot minor, but  tedious problems and stupid support at least at small market like Czech Republic. 

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The biggest problem seem to me is not that they overheat in pretty much any 4k situation but rather the length of time needed to cool down or how long second and subsequent recording will last.

That is what is going to make what looks like a pair of otherwise very nice excellent stills cameras of much much less use for more serious video.

Ok, they are what they are, so how would you use them for more serious video (IE not my use)?   What real practical solutions are there?

I can imagine that somewhere on China right now, there are people making small camera size fridges (I would LOVE one as my normal food fridge).

You would have to watch condensation though  (more so with Sony).     Would you use a real compressor fridge or just a peltier cooler?

Build a couple one for a single camera but also one for two cameras of a R5 size and shape, that way you could use three cameras with two cooling while using one or for resting between use since the heat builds up anyway as long as they are turned on it seems.

Just a larger more powerful one of these (this cost me a couple of buck and while it doesn't work all that well for cooling drinks it is more for keeping them cool).

Seems ridiculous I know but (other than simply recalling them all or not using them for the jobs they are designed for, there has to be SOME solution.

BTW if anyone knows of a micro compressor fridge that is not too expensive. let me know.

 

DSCF6317.jpg

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Not gonna lie, I'm on the fence with the R5 a little more than I have been as more has come out over the last few days. I do live/work in a hot/humid Florida climate. I have a Ninja V, which looks like it would eliminate most issues since a vast majority of my stuff is 24p - but that 120p of the R5 means I don't need something like a Zcam for killer slow-mo. I don't shoot continuous long takes or even leave the camera on in between them most times - the pre-Z battery a7's taught me to habitually shut my cameras off.

What has me concerned - I do shoot a lot of sunrises and sunsets - so I grab a bunch of stills and as the light changes I stab the record button and grab 10-15 seconds of video - constantly switching between them. Those shooting sessions are always in the 30-45 minute range and the morning temps are around 80f, but the evening is more mid-90's right now. IDK, starting to think a a7s3/a7r4 might be the better way for me to go and just shoot both simultaneously (ugh, I have to be the guy carrying two tripods on the beach). I just hate swapping lenses between bodies to get the same FOV, especially since I shoot my 16-35 a lot - hence the desire for a unicorn 1-camera solution.

Its interesting reading comments on the Fred Miranda Canon board or even Canon rumors, seems like most doesn't care at all, so this camera is still going to be a huge hit with the stills crowd and lots of people that haven't gone mirrorless yet. Thankfully I'll have a couple days to sort through all the announcement hype and decide before B&H starts shipping R5's - assuming my order 5 minutes into it going live is in the 1st wave. I'd rather not do the whole, order/test/return thing because I think that's taking advantage of a great return policy, but I'm not sure if this will work for me anymore and I'd really need a couple weeks or so to sort it all out.

Chris

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1 hour ago, noone said:

The biggest problem seem to me is not that they overheat in pretty much any 4k situation but rather the length of time needed to cool down or how long second and subsequent recording will last.

That is what is going to make what looks like a pair of otherwise very nice excellent stills cameras of much much less use for more serious video.

Ok, they are what they are, so how would you use them for more serious video (IE not my use)?   What real practical solutions are there?

I can imagine that somewhere on China right now, there are people making small camera size fridges (I would LOVE one as my normal food fridge).

You would have to watch condensation though  (more so with Sony).     Would you use a real compressor fridge or just a peltier cooler?

Build a couple one for a single camera but also one for two cameras of a R5 size and shape, that way you could use three cameras with two cooling while using one or for resting between use since the heat builds up anyway as long as they are turned on it seems.

Just a larger more powerful one of these (this cost me a couple of buck and while it doesn't work all that well for cooling drinks it is more for keeping them cool).

Seems ridiculous I know but (other than simply recalling them all or not using them for the jobs they are designed for, there has to be SOME solution.

BTW if anyone knows of a micro compressor fridge that is not too expensive. let me know.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera

this is a nice mini peltier fridge.

Seems like somebody already built a cinema camera around it !

The second joke is, not only the r5 overheats, but it also fries your mac pro ...

Meanwhile I am editing 8-cam 4k braw (one actually 6k) on a 1k self built pc !
Canon is really insulting their clients if you ask me. 

 

 

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We've seen videos with refrigerators, and now a leaf blower... Am I naive to think Canon would respond in some way after a couple days of this?

I mean they really sent out production model R5's to youtubers like this was all a non-issue, like their disclosed time limitations were simply advisory to prevent overheating.

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Being serious

The more I think about it, just cutting the top off of my peltier drink cooler so you just rest the camera on the small round metal cooling plate would be worth a try and only costs a couple of dollars.   I got mine from a charity store for next to nothing.

USB powered

HMM, Myabe I should cut the top of and try with my RX100iv using 4k (5 minute limit) a few times?).

Not being serious.

Will you need a permit to use a R5/R6 in Australia in bushfire season?    Will there be advisories to stop using them on high fire danger days like there are for farm machinery?  

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The comparison with the car is funny. A lot of foreign (i.e. non-German) cars are known not to be what we call vollgasfest, "full-throttle proof", and will actually have their engine overheat after a while at maximum speed.
Even some of our models theoretically have that problem, e.g. VW group models with the 6.0 W12 engine, but it is normally masked by the 155 mph speed governor.

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5 hours ago, mechanicalEYE said:

 

Actually really nice looking image. The auto focus was a tad slow, but I assume that could be tweaked in settings. If it was a Fuji it would be jumping and pulsing to no end. 

The audio was off though...... 

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9 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Actually really nice looking image. The auto focus was a tad slow, but I assume that could be tweaked in settings. If it was a Fuji it would be jumping and pulsing to no end. 

The audio was off though...... 

Was not autofocus. It was clearly a manual focus lens with a horrible focus puller. They would have been better off using an auto focus lens. 

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