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Sony A7S III


Andrew Reid
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So I know they were saying "FX9 colour, everything is fine now" but I watched this official video and her skin is doing the "Sony thing", jumping from yellow, to magenta, to magenta blotches in low light.

I guess I'll have to try one out and see how it is IRL, but this doesn't fill me with confidence...

The initial shot is nice, but the blue light ones she is blue and magenta, in blotches, the tunnel ones she is yellow...

I don't know what's at play here, ISO colour shift, how the sensor reacts to different lights (it seems to be having a horrible time with bluer than daylight and those tunnel lights, which are probably fluros) but it's not a good advert for the camera.

In the Kitchen video there's also some weird stuff going on with the tungsten lights going very yellow too.

 

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14 hours ago, Danyyyel said:

I have done my own test years ago and watch a bunch of online test and can't find one which showed significant difference, In fact I would say zero difference between 12 bit raw and 14 bit raw. This is the reason I don't shoot 14 bit raw, I think people are two focused o numbers that go beyond human capabilities. Same for resolution, the 2.8k sensor of the Alexa is still good for big screen, so 4k will be good enough and 8k is beyond ridiculous  at any normal viewing angle. There is a lot of test like these https://photographylife.com/14-bit-vs-12-bit-ra

 

I did tests too when I first got my d800 I found a small difference in the highlight dynamic range it was just enough to make the difference between being able to pull back some blue sky in some shots. (For me this means interiors where the unprocessed raw interior is literally black and the exterior sky is white.  A single 14 bit raw file could produce a perfectly usable image  12 bit could not.  Yes these are extreme examples for most users, but for me was business as usual.  I could shoot interiors without flash or bracketing.  I can't do that on the z6. 

16 bit raw video offers absurd possibilities for my work if it was truly raw. 

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23 minutes ago, jgharding said:

So I know they were saying "FX9 colour, everything is fine now" but I watched this official video and her skin is doing the "Sony thing", jumping from yellow, to magenta, to magenta blotches in low light.

I guess I'll have to try one out and see how it is IRL, but this doesn't fill me with confidence...

 

Different lighting, different grading.... hard to tell if its the camera, the white balance choices or the grade choice...  

On a side note, I like the videos from the Sony A7s more than from the Canon.  Not on an image point of view, more just for checking video themselves.  I felt with Canon, all I saw were vloggings talking with some footage thrown in.  I saw one video on a beach that looked great,  and DpReview did one with the R6, but compared to videos linked here, its all talk talk talk I've seen with Canon videos.  

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, or maybe no one has been able to keep the Canon cameras on long enough to make a decent video out of the footage.

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2 hours ago, Inazuma said:

 

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Skin tones look good to me. Even at iso 50,000 they look natural whereas previously there would be a strong yellow or green shift. Also that rolling shutter performance is incredible

I agree, I think the overall color is pretty decent. It's not perfect but it's improved. The 10 bit will get you where you want pretty easily. 

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2 hours ago, jgharding said:

So I know they were saying "FX9 colour, everything is fine now" but I watched this official video and her skin is doing the "Sony thing", jumping from yellow, to magenta, to magenta blotches in low light.

I guess I'll have to try one out and see how it is IRL, but this doesn't fill me with confidence...

The initial shot is nice, but the blue light ones she is blue and magenta, in blotches, the tunnel ones she is yellow...

I don't know what's at play here, ISO colour shift, how the sensor reacts to different lights (it seems to be having a horrible time with bluer than daylight and those tunnel lights, which are probably fluros) but it's not a good advert for the camera.

In the Kitchen video there's also some weird stuff going on with the tungsten lights going very yellow too.

 

 Are Sony's Cine engineers not allowed to work with the mirror-less department? 

It's clear Sony can't get low cine color correct.  If you look at all camera brands you'll see color science that moves down through generational product lines.   That's why you hear Nikon color or Canon color or Fuji color talked about.  

You never see brands change their color science around.  It is subjective but it also comes down to over all color science, iso shift and shadow color hue and depth or the lack of the latter two. 

OMG that color is not good at all.  

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Simon Young said:

Word. I’m buying this camera for sure. And I agree we need to see more testing with regards to overheating: what cards are they using, temperature outside, codec (I hear the h265 runs hotter) and so on. But I’m confident it will run just fine at 4K 24p All-I. 

Word.  You might want to be concerned about the color from this camera.

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12 minutes ago, Super8 said:

Word.  You might want to be concerned about the color from this camera.

Thank you for your concern but I’ve managed to make the 8bit s-log from previous Sonys look just fine in DaVinci so I’m not really worried. If you can’t get a decent image out of the a7siii I don’t think the camera is to blame.

I suggest you get an Alexa LF and be done with it.

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I love it when people complain about skin tones in heavily graded YT videos them conclude the color science is trash. Big brain time.

I'll admit the sooc files from my a7iii with artificial light can be horrendous, however once corrected they look great to me.

Resolve really helps, without those color tools I don't know that I would be as satisfied with the color.

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6 hours ago, androidlad said:

None of the 1080p modes on A7S III are supersampled from full sensor readout, 24p to 60p are pixel binned, 120p is pixel binned and lineskipped, 240p is futher pixel binned lineskipped (to 1420 x 804)

Oh no! Maybe too good to be true, although this Sony rep seems to believe otherwise https://youtu.be/AqMkfBRIH5w?t=5153 (cued to where he talks about it). 

 

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2 hours ago, SteveV4D said:

Different lighting, different grading.... hard to tell if its the camera, the white balance choices or the grade choice...  

Aaaaand that's what it all comes down to!

How can anyone here judge the colour performance of a camera based on some YouTube videos? The only way to judge is to take the camera original files and put them into Resolve yourself! And even then, as we are not dealing with RAW files, the lighting will play a big part.

Sure, in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing, a certain cameras charachteristic may be too dominant ( and I see this a lot in Sony videos) but now that we have a decent, robust 10bit codec, these issues are much easier to deal with.   

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That’s the thing though, you lose time in post having to fix the infamously poor SOOC white balance under mixed lighting on Sony cameras.

That “Japan Mode” promo video above is a prime example of that. Skin tones are all over the place. Notice how they look ok in natural light outdoor shots then shift to zombie tones under the various artificial lights.

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6 minutes ago, Django said:

That’s the thing though, you lose time in post having to fix the infamously poor SOOC white balance under mixed lighting on Sony cameras.

That “Japan Mode” promo video above is a prime example of that. Skin tones are all over the place. Notice how they look ok in natural light outdoor shots then shift to zombie tones under the various artificial lights.

That 'Japan Mode' is a shocker!

 To be honest, Sony have NEVER done themselves any justice in the videos they produce to promote their Alpha line. I don't know who or where they get made, but we will see so much better examples once the camera is out.

But then yeah, I see your point for people who just want files SOOC, the Sony may not be the fastest or easiest to deal with.

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4 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

How can anyone here judge the colour performance of a camera based on some YouTube videos? The only way to judge is to take the camera original files and put them into Resolve yourself! And even then, as we are not dealing with RAW files, the lighting will play a big part.

I know, it's nuts. Making judgments of a cameras ability based on YouTube videos = basic fail.

There's more guff spouted about colour science then pretty much anything else. Northrup has statistically proven most people talk shite about colour science.

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4 minutes ago, Nezza said:

I know, it's nuts. Making judgments of a cameras ability based on YouTube videos = basic fail.

There's more guff spouted about colour science then pretty much anything else. Northrup has statistically proven most people talk shite about colour science.

What's more, people bang on and on about colour science, but then want a camera that can see in the dark at ISO10,000+ and expect great colour. 

Don't get me wrong, colour science is a thing (I use Fuji for stills and love the SOOC Jpegs) but a slight colour cast can easily be rectified in post, or even in camera if you know what you're doing....which, if you are going to spend this much money on a mirrorless camera, I would assume you do.

I'll reserve judgment on any cameras colour until I see the Camera originals myself.

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Oh colour science

1 hour ago, A_Urquhart said:

 

Don't get me wrong, colour science is a thing (I use Fuji for stills and love the SOOC Jpegs) but a slight colour cast can easily be rectified in post, or even in camera if you know what you're doing....which, if you are going to spend this much money on a mirrorless camera, I would assume you do.

I'll reserve judgment on any cameras colour until I see the Camera originals myself.

Oh colour science is definitely a thing it's just people are very very subjective about it and there's a ton of brand loyalty that isn't born out by the actual pictures people prefer.

Tony asked people who they *thought* had best colour science (winners Canon and Nikon) then he got the same people to choose their favourite colour science on a blind picture test.

Canon and Nikon came bottom (with negative scores) Sony came top and obvs Sony is perceived to have relatively worse colour science. People are brand fan boys - who knew!

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