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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K


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1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

We are talking one persons Grading ability. I would not bet the farm on your statement. ?

There is no way you are Ever going to get this look, I have it posted it earlier, shot on a BMPCC, the original one, with a GH5, or a GH5s.

 

Could you please please stop posting this video ?

the voice has been so melodyned, it is the aural equivalent of the video looking like minecraft macroblocking.

the song is just plain awful, unlistenable. It sounds like a sick game or joke. I truly do not understand what the intention was, but the music sounds so much like total crap, that the overstylised visuals do not match at all. 

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7 minutes ago, Yannick Willox said:

Could you please please stop posting this video ?

the voice has been so melodyned, it is the aural equivalent of the video looking like minecraft macroblocking.

the song is just plain awful, unlistenable. It sounds like a sick game or joke. I truly do not understand what the intention was, but the music sounds so much like total crap, that the overstylised visuals do not match at all. 

I send you and email of it everyday just to piss you off. Cheers.

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Some threads are starting to read like somebody's personal SMS app. It's ridiculous.

Let's calm down, think before we post, if we haven't got anything new to add apart from 20 pages of chitchat!?! No? Let's not post!

I am fine with some chat but not EVERY PAGE. Deal?

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37 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Some threads are starting to read like somebody's personal SMS app. It's ridiculous.

Let's calm down, think before we post, if we haven't got anything new to add apart from 20 pages of chitchat!?! No? Let's not post!

I am fine with some chat but not EVERY PAGE. Deal?

Could I also add, 'if members could please stick to the topic'. In every other topic, there are discussion that are out of subject. And Magic Lantern RAW and the Samsung NX1 seem yo be part of random discussions, where they shouldn't be.

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2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

It is not goodnight in the slightest :)

The codec is just one aspect of the image. Put yourself in the position of the audience. You do not sit there and only notice one aspect of the image. You also notice the sensor size, the lens, the low light performance, the dynamic range, the frame rate, the motion cadence, colour, grain and more.

Sure the codec will make it's mark on all of the above (apart from sensor size and optics).

But honestly, there's a reason most Alexa shoots are ProRes, not raw. Because the image quality gain is minor (in terms of the end result)

So ignore the following because I'm inclined to trust you on account that you're smarter.... but....

I would say the audience sees none of those things. They're wrapped in the story. 

We do need more testing though, on the P4K. I can't wait until you get a P4K in your hands, especially one with .braw.

Also, according to a certain DP who has been on this forum but not so much lately, Alexa ProRes is purely budgetary. When you have 3-6 cams shooting RAW, the storage difference compared to prores is not negligible. We're they similar (or less like .braw will be) date rates, you can bet they'd shoot RAW.

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6 hours ago, DBounce said:

GH5/S can both show custom luts or use baked in Luts (picture profiles).

A Picture Profile is nothing like a LUT.

 

6 hours ago, DBounce said:

Erh...  GH6

Nope, people will still make great home videos/ low budget films etc on the GH5 once the GH6 is out.

 

6 hours ago, DBounce said:

GH5S has this option

 OK, so the GH5s has TC input but you lose IBIS. Which camera are you comparing here?

6 hours ago, DBounce said:

this is optional on the GH cameras

Yep, needs an iditional add on making it a bigger, more expensive and heavier camera.

6 hours ago, DBounce said:

XLR input with phantom power capability - this is optional on the GH cameras.

Again, bigger, heavier, more expensive

6 hours ago, DBounce said:

Internal RAW - so a codec

This is so much more than a codec and it's a massive advantage.

 

6 hours ago, DBounce said:

Build quality is arguable too. The Pocket4k uses a polycarbonate / carbon fibre mix. My $6000 mountain bike that gets a heap of abuse has a frame that is also made of plastic/ carbon fibre! It's extremely tough stuff and lightweight. To the uninitiated, the lightness can be confused with 'cheap feeing'. - These are cameras not mountain bikes

No but it suggests that the materials used are strong. 

 

6 hours ago, DBounce said:

Should I list all the features of DaVinci Resolve Studio here? Should I list all the features of FCPX, Adobe PP and AE? How about you just list the bug where it changed aspect ratio after making edits in Fusion

Last time I checked, FCPX, Adobe Premiere and AE were not included with any Panasonic cameras. Has this changed?

6 hours ago, DBounce said:

USB-C recording - never wished for this option on a GH5/S.

Thats because you can't shoot raw on the GH5. I wasn't all that interested in this feature either when they announced it but having used it, it's actually really handy.

6 hours ago, DBounce said:

Warranty wise, I had issues back in the day with a GH3 and Panasonic were a PITA to deal with for warranty. Had an issue with an UMP and BMD promptly fixed it.

So you had an issue with a 6 year old Panasonic camera and Panasonic wouldn't fix it? Hmmm?

?‍♂️ Good grief.......obviously (or maybe not to some people)  the GH3 was not six years old when I had issues with it. It was less than a year old. 

 

6 hours ago, DBounce said:

So the $1k P4K should be thought of more like an Alexa mini than a hybrid. That's fantastic.  All you need is a full crew to run it and a multimillion dollar budget. No pesky things like IBIS, OIS or Gimbal compatibility no longer matter. And since you have a team of colorist you can focus on what really matters... RAW!

You can use OIS lenses on the Pocket. You can put the pocket on many gimbals. I really don't know where you are getting your info from?

I'm not sure of your background, but I've shot on many cameras from BetacamSP (Manual Focus Only, no weather sealing) to the Red Weapon and Alexa (Again, MF only and no WR) and operated all the cameras without a crew. Just because you don't have AF doesn't mean you need a focus puller. Have you not seen operators pull focus off the barrel while looking through the EVF? It actually works!

6 hours ago, DBounce said:

The guy in the skate park. He'll keep up with the fast paced action with manual focus and no crew

Skate videos have been shot without AF for years.

 

6 hours ago, DBounce said:

That said, you do need to capture the shot... and that's where those features you dismiss become important. 

Personally for my work and even just my creative standards, getting the shot but seeing some AF hunt is personally not acceptable to me. I'm pretty happy with how my eyes and focus ability are though and will trust them over AF.

 

6 hours ago, DBounce said:

I believe in the primary camera role this camera will need a crew. If this is not you... the GH5/S is a better choice with it's useless practicality.

Ive had the camera for two weeks now and used it without a crew. It's an easy camera to operate. I do wish the screen would tilt, it seems a shame to have such a nice big screen and not be able to use it all the time. At the same time, while most mirrorless cameras screens do tilt, I've always found them too small so like to rig a bigger monitor or EVF anyway. Even just the fact that the screen is so big on the Pocket means that using the touch screen is such a joy. Can't say the same about the touch screens I have used on mirrorless cameras. 

 

6 hours ago, DBounce said:

And since you have a team of colorist you can focus on what really matters... RAW!

Ive always maintained that most people don't need RAW due to the large file sizes, hardware requirement etc. 10bit is enough for most people.

After thinking about Blackmagic RAW recently, I've now changed my mind. While large budget productions have much more control over varying conditions, solo shooters do not. A solo shooter has a lot to think about and it's more likely that a solo shooter is going to have to compromise on DR due to not having a gaffer on hand, or is going to forget to set the WB correctly for a shot due to lack of time and having so much to think about. If that shooter could now shoot RAW but in a flavour like BRAW which is easy for most modern computers to handle, can be shot to cheap SD cards and requires less  drive space than many 10bit codecs, then why wouldn't they want that? For run and gun shooters, BRAW makes a lot of sense where CDNG raw didn't. BRAW doesn't make a bad shooter great, but it can be used to fix mistakes easily......Good shooters, bad shooters.....we all make mistakes every now and again.

 

DBounce, this camera is obviously not for you and you have made that quite clear. I just don't understand why you feel the need to get on the Pocket4K thread and constantly argue about why the GH5 is better. I haven't felt the need to get on the GH5 thread and talk up the Pocket or shit can the GH5. Can we keep this thread about the Pocket4k, it's getting really tiring trawling through pages and pages of silly arguments.

I have made a new thread.....feel free to continue the argument there please. I'd like to converse here and share information with others that want/ have the camera.

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3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Sure the codec will make it's mark on all of the above (apart from sensor size and optics).

But honestly, there's a reason most Alexa shoots are ProRes, not raw. Because the image quality gain is minor (in terms of the end result)

You were are big advocate for speed boosters and how they closed the gap on MFT vs Full frame. I really think the sensor size with a speed booster is a non issue and actually is a huge bonus over FF unless you need fast AF.

In terms of Alexa shoots being ProRes, good DP's have good Gaffers and good budgets. They can control light much easier than solo shooters so don't really need the benefits of RAW most of the time. Yes, image quality is not that different but flexibility in post is.

Also, many (not all) Alexa shoots shoot ProRes444 which is a 12bit codec so doesn't compare to the 10bit codecs now found in mirrorless cameras like the GH or X-T3.

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Just now, Turboguard said:

Wow, this tread is like, I don’t even know what to say. At least people are civilized over at BMCuser, so will do the rest of my P4K chat over there and people can keep there GH5 chats here.

. Ciao

Hi Turbo, I too would love to move over to BMC user but while I am registered there, have never been given permission to post and have contacted the mods countless times but no-one seems to be home.

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1 hour ago, Turboguard said:

I think it looks very pretty :) What lens is that?

Looks some Iscorama glass coupled there. To me, bothers much more that flickering over there which could be corrected with the use of proper shutter speed BTW : ) Aside the dichotomy 50Hz vs 60Hz for 25/50/100 or 24/60/120 fps, respectively.

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4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The colour science is at least 80% done in post when you shoot LOG... and 99% when you shoot RAW!

The colour science is in Resolve and can be applied to any camera with a capable enough codec!

What we need to know are things like -

- Dynamic range in LOG and RAW

- Noise in shadows

- High ISO performance

- 8bit vs 10bit

And the job of the grading is to get the colour to match perfectly between the two cameras being tested.

I still have no idea how the GH5S and Pocket 4K really compare in dynamic range, noise and bit depth.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lYduNOHyHSZj_SZPlRy96GJdZUFj8L6Z

A short dynamic range comparison by @tidefilm
Matched the source files (the shadows of the GH5s are completely desaturated) and added a bit of blur to take away the edge.

Please download the file. The Pocket 4K smokes the GH5s in this test, it's not even fair. Not only no sharpening but also way cleaner. The GH5s shows some horizontal noise patterns (was shot at 25p)

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1 minute ago, deezid said:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lYduNOHyHSZj_SZPlRy96GJdZUFj8L6Z

A short dynamic range comparison by @tidefilm
Matched the source files (the shadows of the GH5s are completely desaturated) and added a bit of blur to take away the edge.

Please download the file. The Pocket 4K smokes the GH5s in this test, it's not even fair. Not only no sharpening but also way cleaner. The GH5s shows some horizontal noise patterns (was shot at 25p)

Good find. Yes, the lack of sharpening on the Pocket is another huge plus. I love the smoothness of the image while at the same time not lacking detail at all.

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