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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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Just now, Turboguard said:

Wow, this tread is like, I don’t even know what to say. At least people are civilized over at BMCuser, so will do the rest of my P4K chat over there and people can keep there GH5 chats here.

. Ciao

Hi Turbo, I too would love to move over to BMC user but while I am registered there, have never been given permission to post and have contacted the mods countless times but no-one seems to be home.

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1 hour ago, Turboguard said:

I think it looks very pretty :) What lens is that?

Looks some Iscorama glass coupled there. To me, bothers much more that flickering over there which could be corrected with the use of proper shutter speed BTW : ) Aside the dichotomy 50Hz vs 60Hz for 25/50/100 or 24/60/120 fps, respectively.

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4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The colour science is at least 80% done in post when you shoot LOG... and 99% when you shoot RAW!

The colour science is in Resolve and can be applied to any camera with a capable enough codec!

What we need to know are things like -

- Dynamic range in LOG and RAW

- Noise in shadows

- High ISO performance

- 8bit vs 10bit

And the job of the grading is to get the colour to match perfectly between the two cameras being tested.

I still have no idea how the GH5S and Pocket 4K really compare in dynamic range, noise and bit depth.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lYduNOHyHSZj_SZPlRy96GJdZUFj8L6Z

A short dynamic range comparison by @tidefilm
Matched the source files (the shadows of the GH5s are completely desaturated) and added a bit of blur to take away the edge.

Please download the file. The Pocket 4K smokes the GH5s in this test, it's not even fair. Not only no sharpening but also way cleaner. The GH5s shows some horizontal noise patterns (was shot at 25p)

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1 minute ago, deezid said:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lYduNOHyHSZj_SZPlRy96GJdZUFj8L6Z

A short dynamic range comparison by @tidefilm
Matched the source files (the shadows of the GH5s are completely desaturated) and added a bit of blur to take away the edge.

Please download the file. The Pocket 4K smokes the GH5s in this test, it's not even fair. Not only no sharpening but also way cleaner. The GH5s shows some horizontal noise patterns (was shot at 25p)

Good find. Yes, the lack of sharpening on the Pocket is another huge plus. I love the smoothness of the image while at the same time not lacking detail at all.

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1 hour ago, Slothorp said:

Red Alert : did some night tests yesterday. All of them showing red clipping in the highlights. 

 

 

To everyone who asked me why they shouldn’t shoot 60fps (or 120) for a 25p project. This is why. Everything is so flickery. 

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12 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

To everyone who asked me why they shouldn’t shoot 60fps (or 120) for a 25p project. This is why. Everything is so flickery. 

I live in a 50hz country (Australia) and just did a test here at home. Setting the HFR frame rate on the Pocket4k to 60p (but keeping the project rate at 25p) does result in flicker at 180degree shutter as would be expected. But, If you change the shutter to 216 degrees, the flicker goes away. Just tested this with a flouro tube, domestic LED's and incandescent bulb and no flicker with any of them.

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13 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Right. You could also shoot at 30p with that shutter angle and the lights won’t flicker. I still wouldn’t do it though haha. 

Why is that? Do you only use 180 degree shutter exclusively?

Not sure why you would want to shoot 30fps though. If you wanted a very slight slowmo effect you could shoot at 33fps which eliminates flicker at 180 degrees with LED's and incandescent. A bit of rolling flicker with Flouro's though at 33fps and 180 degree but this is fixable by choosing 237.6 degrees

When shooting 60p, it is more for slow and a shutter angle of 216 is perfectly acceptable. 

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Mostly, but it’s more of a ‘only use multiples of project frame rate exclusively’.  I only mentioned 30fps as it’ll have the same flicker as 60 at 180deg  

The shutter angle/speed introduces or reduces motion blur. So if you shot at 60fps with 90deg you’d also loose (hide) the flicker. In that scenario though, you won’t have sharp slowmo which mean ugly footage. 

I actually read for nicer slow motion, you should use more than 180deg. The sharper the better. 

Motion blur at real time allows the footage to look realistic, but slow motion by nature is not realistic and so shouldn’t live by the 180 rule. 

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3 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Mostly, but it’s more of a ‘only use multiples of project frame rate exclusively’.  

The shutter angle/speed introduces or reduces motion blur. So if you shot at 60fps with 90deg you’d also loose (hide) the flicker. In that scenario though, you won’t have sharp slowmo which mean ugly footage. 

I actually read for nicer slow motion, you should use more than 180deg. The sharper the better. 

Motion blur at real time allows the footage to look realistic, but slow motion by nature is not realistic and so shouldn’t live by the 180 rule. 

But the 216 degree shutter angle I suggested IS more than 180degrees. I wouldn't suggest shooting slow at 90 degrees.

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Ah - but you edited you post while I was replying haha. 

Anyway, my point is if you deviate from multiples of the project frame rate you’re allowing space for flicker and if you change your mind later and want to play back at normal speed, you’re making life hard for yourself. 

Stick to multiples of the project frame rate and you can use whatever shutter speed/angle you want and never worry - even if you want to playback at full speed later. 

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5 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Ah - but you edited you post while I was replying haha. 

I did, but I didn't change anything that you referred too. I stated 216 degrees from the start. Never edited that.

4 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Beacuse then you limit all your clips to slowmo only. If you want some realtime or do a warp it will look like a porly made stop motion. 

 

Yes, shooting at 50p gives you more flexibility in post but if you know what you are trying to achieve when you are shooting, 60p is a viable option and can be used without flicker if need be.

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7 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Well then I jumped the gun with my response, sorry about that.

If 60p at 216 works for you, crack on. Personally I’d stick to 50p and have more flexibility, both while shooting and in the edit. 

No worries and for most scenarios, I completely agree that 50p is a safer option.

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5 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Well then I jumped the gun with my response, sorry about that.

If 60p at 216 works for you, crack on. Personally I’d stick to 50p and have more flexibility, both while shooting and in the edit. 

ah OK, so take a look here:

http://urbanvideo.ca/avoid-video-flicker

Hope this helps,

E : -)

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