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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The Pocket 4K has a lot of interesting features, of course, but somebody needs to do a proper comparison of 8bit, 10bit, ProRes, LOG, RAW, etc. Because the image quality is closer between them than people realise, when it comes to the end-result.

I've had Blackmagic cameras in the past, and it's fun pulling around a raw file in Resolve and seeing all that dynamic range on demand, but then I have also had a lot of enjoyment out of 8bit S-LOG and Canon LOG too. Seeing how silky smooth, noise-less the shadows are in low light from a full frame sensor, being able to fluidly play it back and slap on a LUT over Canon 1D C footage - wow - you wouldn't know THAT was 8bit. Instantly nice colour and dynamic range. Same with Hybrid LOG Gamma from an A7 III, or V-LOG with the GH5 and F-LOG on an X-T3. Even the EOS R, for all its faults, has an amazing ALL-I codec with film-like colour - and it's 8bit.

We are trading a lot of things on the Pocket 4K for that RAW codec. 10bit too, but others offer that now, so it's not unique to Blackmagic. Out goes a large sensor, out goes decent video AF, out goes IBIS, out goes articulated screen, battery life, high quality body, weather sealing and more besides. So it is important not to over hype it, as some have been doing on this thread. I have nothing against the Blackmagic Pocket 4K, but it has to be seen objectively.

I do have a little bit of annoyance pent up at the company, for their lame availability and non-support of EOSHD despite the tons of work I have done over the years to bring people's knowledge up to speed on their cameras and Resolve, but I am not going to let that influence the review once I finally get one.

Still no luck on that front BTW.

 

1 hour ago, mercer said:

As I previously noted, I was being hyperbolic with murder and obliterate but that doesn’t negate the fact that ProRes XQ at +700 mbps should look better than 400 mbps of the GH5. And in some ways it does but I don’t know if it looks almost twice as good.

 

After I posted those shots of the Philip Bloom pushed and pulled around I had the same thoughts and wondered how well other lesser footage would respond.  So I pulled in a shot from my XC10 in C-Log and a shot from my 700D and applied the same push and pull.  I expected both to not stand up, and of course the 700D footage broke so hard it looked like modern art, but the 305Mbit 8-bit C-Log from the XC10 looked just fine.

As I don't film like PB I didn't have a shot with similar tonal distribution, and then all my thoughts about how camera comparisons aren't done right (by basically anyone) so I didn't end up posting them.

I really like the look of the OG Pocket and this one hasn't given the same wow factor, but considering that BM release early and tweak, considering that we've not had many examples of footage that was well shot, considering the extensive camera tests that high-end cinematographers do with a new camera working out it's sweet spots and optimal settings, and the maturity of understanding with other contenders like the GH5, A7Sii, etc, we really can't tell what potential there is in this camera yet.

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5 hours ago, mercer said:

As I previously noted, I was being hyperbolic with murder and obliterate but that doesn’t negate the fact that ProRes XQ at +700 mbps should look better than 400 mbps of the GH5. And in some ways it does but I don’t know if it looks almost twice as good.

You are shooting with 5D right? Could you please show me what is the difference between ProRes LT (88Mbps for 1080 24p) and ProRes XQ? Just convert Raw to ProRes do a grading and crop the difference please.

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Just now, Deadcode said:

You are shooting with 5D right? Could you please show me what is the difference between ProRes LT (88Mbps for 1080 24p) and ProRes XQ? Just convert Raw to ProRes do a grading and crop the difference please.

i have no idea what any of that means, but I'm eager to see what happens. :) 

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23 minutes ago, jonpais said:

i have no idea what any of that means, but I'm eager to see what happens. :) 

It's simpe. He will not see any difference in regular cases. The statement of 700Mbps could be almost twice as good as 400Mbps is only true on paper. I just want him to prove it for himself.

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4 hours ago, BenEricson said:

Same sensor. Similar specs.

The sensor is same with the GH5s, not the GH5. The specs (or the lack of them, e.g. IBIS, high resolution photos e.t.c) are similar with the GH5S. 

As I see it, the P4K is 3/4 of a monitor, a full time video recorder, and 3/4 of a video camera with a full editing solution for free. The deal is good, good enough to be an indie hit. It won't sell as much as an XT-3 or C200, but it could easily be the most successful BM camera ever, which is something.

Do we know for sure that BRAW is going to be added in the future, or is it pure speculation as of now?

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2 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Do we know for sure that BRAW is going to be added in the future, or is it pure speculation as of now?

It is a certainty. I think. :) 

I'd love to see a teardown of the Pocket 4K btw.

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6 hours ago, mercer said:

Lol... probably not. If you stick up for the GH5, the BM fanboys attack you, if you stick up for the P4K, the GH5 fans go nuts... I may as well talk to myself in the ML Raw forum... I’ll definitely like what I have to say... ?

In the end, these are just cameras and it’s not worth getting angry over.

In this thread: a handful of people repeatedly crying about being oppressed for not liking a camera.

Not in this thread: BM fanboys giving critics a hard time.

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59 minutes ago, tekeela said:

In this thread: a handful of people repeatedly crying about being oppressed for not liking a camera.

Not in this thread: BM fanboys giving critics a hard time.

I can not identify, not even one BM fanboy here!

I can see a bunch attacking the P4K for something that it isn't (a hybrid camera), some that pre-ordered and finding it an excellent and cheap solution for their needs, and some (the majority I assume, including me) that are really intrigued by this release from -used to be- a small player that can easily fit many people's workflow, but we are waiting for real world reviews and to check quality and software issues.

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7 hours ago, mercer said:

As I previously noted, I was being hyperbolic with murder and obliterate but that doesn’t negate the fact that ProRes XQ at +700 mbps should look better than 400 mbps of the GH5. And in some ways it does but I don’t know if it looks almost twice as good.

Why should it look better? I've seem quite a few tests (inc one I did myself) between the internal codec and that recorded via HDMI out on the GH5 and they don't reveal any differences in image quality. What are you expecting to see (or have seen) exactly? The main advantage of a less compressed codec is that it's easier to edit as it doesn't require such large CPU/GPU work to uncompress during playback in an NLE.

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I don't see where fanboyism comes in.

I was looking at a GH5s, but out of reach financially. Can anyone tell me what a GH5s does, that the P4K cannot do at least as good, except for battery life.

I know the battery life on a GH5s is good enough to show up at a concert and tape the entire 2h without needing a power socket, which is a big plus. On the other hand, for the price of one GH5s you buy 2 P4K, both come included with a power socket (optional on the GH5s), and for the same money I have two cameras.

If I want to save on storage, I could shoot the P4K at 1080P & prores LT. Now that would be an interesting comparison, the full HD of the GH5s versus P4K ? Amazing nobody looked at that angle yet. I thought one of the major gripes with current hybrid cams is that they are all optimized for 4K.

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19 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I can not identify, not even one BM fanboy here!

I can see a bunch attacking the P4K for something that it isn't (a hybrid camera), some that pre-ordered and finding it an excellent and cheap solution for their needs, and some (the majority I assume, including me) that are really intrigued by this release from -used to be- a small player that can easily fit many people's workflow, but we are waiting for real world reviews and to check quality and software issues.

Also a lot of people have the notion that the image quality will be substantially better than the GH5 and GH5s based on the specs and spurious claims about 'color science' or other 'mojo' BM will bring to the table.

The GH5 and GH5s produce a very good image both in terms of what it looks like and how the codec behaves in grading so people really need to 'manage their expectations' about the extent of the improvements the P4K will bring about in terms of final image quality. In particular with the GH5s which by all circumstantial evidence shares the same sensor which I haven't see evidence of being intentionally crippled by Panasonic so the improvements are likely to be minor. 

 

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For me as previous owner of many BM cameras, story in practice always begin with third party solutions for better usability - as it seems we still have to wait for the most clever cage  solution with additional compartment for fixing powering/stabilization/monitoring/filtering/file saving demands.

And than to see how much all of that will cost (for indisputably untouchable raw possibility for sоme area of usage) - or, to stay in recent forum's mood/vocabulary:

what will be degree  of massacre that Pocket will make to our pocket.

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3 minutes ago, Yannick Willox said:

Can anyone tell me what a GH5s does, that the P4K cannot do at least as good, except for battery life.

 

It has an EVF which depending on your shooting style could be important.

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1 minute ago, Shirozina said:

It has an EVF which depending on your shooting style could be important.

Indeed. Personally I mostly put the camera on a tripod, and I don't understand how you can use a viewfinder, with the camera on a (cheapish) tripod. Probably on a 2000 dollar model you can...

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