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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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6 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I think most of these newer cameras have got auto WB, auto Exposure down to a tee anymore. So most stuff is coming out popularly exposed. And heck they have more DR now than ever. So in essence it is getting harder to screw stuff up unless you goof up, are in a pretty terrible situation. Even these new Logs, C Log, N Log, F Log are not a crazy Log like say Sony S Log 3 is. So they are more forgiving, for most stuff,  most people shoot. And NLE's have gotten better also. More auto correction stuff available. So it is just easier to get it right, right in camera. Is it as good as it can be, well no. But good enough for most viewers.

People with great editing, grading, coloring skills are Always going to shine on their output. But the gap is getting narrower every year, and the camera gap narrows also.. You could really take some of these new mirrorless cameras and put the guts in a normal Cine body and no one would be the wiser. They are getting that good.

I agree.

Lots of people are saying "this 4K RAW isn't that much better than our best H264 cameras, how disappointing" when I think they should be saying "wow, our H264 cameras weren't completely put to shame by this 4K RAW camera, how things have changed since the BMPCC, and aren't we spoiled for choice now!".

5 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The problem with tests like these is they may as well be a review of the tester's grading skills.

Ever since RAW and LOG first came out we have had the same issue - are we watching badly graded footage or is the camera to blame?

I totally agree.

I watched the 2012 Zacuto camera challenge recently (doing it blind as they suggested) and ended up putting the cameras in three tiers, which I found out afterwards were basically sorting them by price!  The only exception to that was the F65 which I placed in the middle tier instead of the top tier because I didn't like the grade.

I think there are two ways to properly execute a camera comparison - set the cameras to their flattest profile and show the files untouched out of the camera having only done a WB, or use a colour checker and have the NLE grade it for you using the full checker so it can linearise the luminance and adjust primaries and all that stuff.  Otherwise, like you say, we're evaluating their grade and not the camera.

Has anyone compared the P4K to the BMPCC by downscaling the P4K to 1080 and then comparing?  Sharpness and resolution have a lot to do with things being cinematic...

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
2 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

What about a 15mm rod/rail that literally is a battery? So like, you have a cage with a handle and rod that a couple accessories attach to. But the rod itself is a battery. Maybe the handle too.

Maybe this is a dumb idea that's already been mentioned. But it just came to me.

Rods are quite thin and potentially need to support a lot of weight, wouldn't want to risk a battery getting twisted and bent.... 

 

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38 minutes ago, kye said:

I agree.

Lots of people are saying "this 4K RAW isn't that much better than our best H264 cameras, how disappointing" when I think they should be saying "wow, our H264 cameras weren't completely put to shame by this 4K RAW camera, how things have changed since the BMPCC, and aren't we spoiled for choice now!".

 

Yeah Raw is Always going to win with good grading skills. Look at the Canon ML results. And so is ProRes, especially with company's that have good Color Science. It is the better Codec because it is 10, 12, 14 bit and has a data rate out the wazoo.

I have been seeing better grading from just what seems normal people than BMD themselves seemed to produce in the beginning. Kind of odd to me. So there is hope for this camera. But you better load up with recording media and a shit pot full of batteries. Sort of sounds familiar doesn't it. 😬

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2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah Raw is Always going to win with good grading skills. Look at the Canon ML results. And so is ProRes, especially with company's that have good Color Science. It is the better Codec because it is 10, 12, 14 bit and has a data rate out the wazoo. I have been seeing better grading from just what seems normal people than BMD themselves seemed to produce in the beginning. Kind of odd to me. So there is hope for this camera. But you better load up with recording media and a shit pot full of batteries. Sort of sounds familiar doesn't it. 😬

Yep.  and for those who are used to shooting in those rec709 profiles and throwing on a LUT in post it's definitely a case of "oh Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore!!" 😂😂😂

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11 hours ago, jonpais said:

The color in the Fabrizio & Omayra video is simply gorgeous and the dynamic range is very impressive. 

Yes, but I had to download it to add blur from my PotPlayer...

I'd rather look to 'The Color of Light' video and the focal reducer shots (18-35mm f/1.8).

You feel the difference to thinner MFT glass BTW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXBv7mSrIHo

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/gallery

 

tip to do it with embedded videos from vimeo LOL they embedded it on their webpage but they don't allow others to embed it from YT... these autocratic tics from a company like BMD are killing me : X

download embedded videos on Chrome:
customize and control button on the right corner -> More tools -> Developer tools -> F+Ctrl -> mp4 -> select all & copy -> word processor -> F+Ctrl = resolution chosen -> copy paste link -> click on right to save as wherever you want in your drive as you wish ; -)

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33 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

tip to do it with embedded videos from vimeo LOL they embedded it on their webpage but they don't allow others to embed it from YT... these autocratic tics from a company like BMD are killing me : X

download embedded videos on Chrome:
customize and control button on the right corner -> More tools -> Developer tools -> F+Ctrl -> mp4 -> select & copy -> word processor -> F+Ctrl = resolution chosen -> copy paste link -> click on right to save as wherever you want in your drive as you wish ; -)

2

bookmarked.

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17 hours ago, Deadcode said:

The dynamic range is impressive. This shot is waaaaay underexposed and still "just" ProRes. But it can be lifted easily1970079173_Kepernyofoto2018-10-11-15_40_20.thumb.png.5bad6768c0f273424dbe6222a9d0c0f6.png

 

I can’t believe that the highlights clip that hard on a clip so under exposed. The handling of highlights are what kills this camera for me. The OG pocket had so many flaws but the image was not one of them. 

I think the GH5 might have an upper hand with the baked in color profiles as well. I always impressed with the files straight out of camera with then GH4. Has anybody been messing with shooting non log footage? Can you bake in LUTs to the BMP4K? 

 

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21 minutes ago, BenEricson said:

I can’t believe that the highlights clip that hard on a clip so under exposed. The handling of highlights are what kills this camera for me. The OG pocket had so many flaws but the image was not one of them. 

I think the GH5 might have an upper hand with the baked in color profiles as well. I always impressed with the files straight out of camera with then GH4. Has anybody been messing with shooting non log footage? Can you bake in LUTs to the BMP4K? 

 

When the scene lighting contrast is  greater than the DR of the camera clipping is inevitable - on any camera. 

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25 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

When the scene lighting contrast is  greater than the DR of the camera clipping is inevitable - on any camera. 

Sure, but we’re talking about this camera and those highlights don’t look so nice. The original frame was posted to rave about the DR. I don’t see it. 

I am fairly certain that even a c100 in log would handle that better. 

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23 minutes ago, BenEricson said:

Sure, but we’re talking about this camera and those highlights don’t look so nice. The original frame was posted to rave about the DR. I don’t see it. 

I am fairly certain that even a c100 in log would handle that better. 

Maybe the grade was poor, maybe the person who posted it wasn't interested in the highlights and wanted to see how far the shadows can be pushed. One thing you can be certain of is that unless you shot 2 cameras side by side with the exact same exposure settings you can't say which camera has better highlights.

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1 hour ago, seanzzxx said:

You can shoot in Video, Extended Video or Film, you cannot bake in third party LUTs (although you can see  them on your monitor)

So many false informations here... It’s not specificaly targeted at you but yes you can totally record custom baked in LUT and that’s an overlooked killer feature. Actually the biggest feature after raw. You can basically get any look straight of camera. I have a review coming showing the power of it !

And so was I worried about highlights handling and DR when I first watched the early footage online. But I can tell you : this camera has more DR than the « legendary » original BMPCC. Once again, I’ll show it in my review. So to sum up : saying that GH5 has a better output for SOOC footage is nonsense I think, granted extended video mode and video mode aren’t any good (you can achieve something pleasing with extended video LUT applied on RAW when you have complete control on WB, with PRORES, I find it to be more complicated...)

Anyway, people (me included !) shouldn’t jump at conclusions when they’ve never shot with the camera.

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13 minutes ago, Papiskokuji said:

So many false informations here... It’s not specificaly targeted at you but yes you can totally record custom baked in LUT and that’s an overlooked killer feature. Actually the biggest feature after raw. You can basically get any look straight of camera. I have a review coming showing the power of it !

And so was I worried about highlights handling and DR when I first watched the early footage online. But I can tell you : this camera has more DR than the « legendary » original BMPCC. Once again, I’ll show it in my review. So to sum up : saying that GH5 has a better output for SOOC footage is nonsense I think, granted extended video mode and video mode aren’t any good (you can achieve something pleasing with extended video LUT applied on RAW when you have complete control on WB, with PRORES, I find it to be more complicated...)

Anyway, people (me included !) shouldn’t jump at conclusions when they’ve never shot with the camera.

That's awesome, thanks for correcting me!

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27 minutes ago, seanzzxx said:

Cameranu has a 3-4 month expected waiting time for non-preordered cameras. Kamera Express has delivered like three cameras, so far.

Ok I guess I have to avoid those 2 shops then. Maybe I need to look elsewhere in Europe. If anybody comes across one "in stock" let me know :)

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57 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

Are there any Belgians or dutch people who got theirs, or know a store where there are no pre-orders but are awaiting shipments?

I got confirmation from Kamera Express yesterday that they received a shipment and have sent it out to people who had preorders. I'm number 10 on their list, but didn't get one, so I guess they didn't get many and assume (really hope) I'll be in the next batch.

Meanwhile, a few other places I've contacted expect to sell  to people without pre-orders in 4 months. - but that seemed like a total guess. 

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8 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

I got confirmation from Kamera Express yesterday that they received a shipment and have sent it out to people who had preorders. I'm number 10 on their list, but didn't get one, so I guess they didn't get many and assume (really hope) I'll be in the next batch.

Meanwhile, a few other places I've contacted expect to sell  to people without pre-orders in 4 months. - but that seemed like a total guess. 

Just FYI, Kamera Express is terrible with sending out pre-orders in the correct order. They basically just seem to pick a name at random from their list and ship it to them - I know people who ordered on the 9th of April who haven't gotten anything, and people who ordered in September(!) who did.

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