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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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1 hour ago, A_Urquhart said:

Hi Turbo, I too would love to move over to BMC user but while I am registered there, have never been given permission to post and have contacted the mods countless times but no-one seems to be home.

Looking forward to a forum that isn't run by a Nazi. Andrew closed the topic I created directing arguments between the GH5 and Pocket4k to another thread. It's his way or the highway here at EOSHD!¬†ūüėĄ

 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Sorry about the detour then...

Can the GH5 shoot 60p at 180 with no flicker?

@Emanuel nice link - but I still feel like you're opening holes to make mistakes in by choosing 60p. All you're gaining is slightly slower footage, but in my opinion it's costing a lot both on the shoot and in the edit. You need to ensure your shutter speed is right (with 50p anything will work regarding the flicker), and you're locked into slow motion.

If you're making a documentary it's very hard to tell how you want to use our footage until you're editing it. At 60p you can't do any ramping or play with it at all really.

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58 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Looks some Iscorama glass coupled there. To me, bothers much more that flickering over there which could be corrected with the use of proper shutter speed BTW : ) Aside the dichotomy 50Hz vs 60Hz for 25/50/100 or 24/60/120 fps, respectively.

Some guys on facebook prefer to concentrate upon the flickering (which was just a 50hz/60 p issue that I wanted to check) or the anamorphic effect to the image. But they don't wan to see the red clipping. 

The settings : 

Capture d’écran 2018-10-13 à 23.05.51.png

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3 minutes ago, Slothorp said:

prefer to concentrate upon the flickering (which was just a 50hz/60 p issue that I wanted to check) or the anamorphic effect to the image. But they don't wan to see the red clipping.ÔĽŅ¬†

That's because the flickering is much more distracting than the red lights. If you didn't mention it, I wouldn't have noticed.

Red light is hot on basically every camera I've used, especially when there's less light around it like in this shot. For me in this night scene, the red isn't a problem at all. 

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3 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

That's because the flickering is much more distracting than the red lights. If you didn't mention it, I wouldn't have noticed.

Red light is hot on basically every camera I've used, especially when there's less light around it like in this shot. For me in this night scene, the red isn't a problem at all. 

The red clipping in this example looks terrible.
I wonder if it's in the RAW or ProRes file.

Really weird. First time I've seen it on this camera. Looks more like an ACES issue I ran into using Pocket 4K footage before.

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2 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Sorry about the detour then...

Can the GH5 shoot 60p at 180 with no flicker?

 

Not in a 50hz country.

2 hours ago, Slothorp said:

Last test : 
 

 

Hmmm, not liking the look of that. 

I haven't done any shooting into red lights at night but will have to test it out tonight. If it's a common P4K issue, hopefully it can be fixed with firmware.

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The overexposed super saturated LEDs are clipping the gamut. This will happen with Gen 4 on 4.6K too. You can reduce the issue by soft clipping the gamut using the colour space transform Resolve FX plugin. Here I am using the Broadcast gamut because the Pocket 4K option isn't in the colour space transform plugin at this time but they are actually the same gamut/primaries anyway.

GamutSoftClipping.thumb.png.f0fb20c552b16674dc10c05f0a4f6a59.png

Without soft clipping the gamut:

GamutClipped.thumb.png.4740d3be34472be323541bdbb2f5c6d2.png

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5 hours ago, Slothorp said:

Last test : 
 

 

It would be good to see the same situation in prores.   Shooting raw actually bypasses the majority of what the camera can do to fix the image, so criticising a raw image is really just criticising only the sensor, not the cameras handling of it.  (which is another reason why blackmagic raw should be great as it could include image fixes).

Specifically,  try prores film at 1000 iso or 6400 iso exposed properly and then try reducing the exposure if the effect is still there.

I wonder if a filter to lower only the reds would work? A green filter? And then adjust back the colors.  Or maybe a diffusion filter.

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15 minutes ago, Chrad said:

The shutter can't be at 180, but you can fine tune it till the flicker disappears with the Synchro Scan feature.

I'm no expert on the GH5 (never used it) but yes, I think the synchro scan feature would just adjust the shutter speed in finer increments than usual to find one that works with the lights you are using. So yeah, your shutter would not be at 180 anymore.

3 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

The overexposed super saturated LEDs are clipping the gamut. This will happen with Gen 4 on 4.6K too. You can reduce the issue by soft clipping the gamut using the colour space transform Resolve FX plugin. Here I am using the Broadcast gamut because the Pocket 4K option isn't in the colour space transform plugin at this time but they are actually the same gamut/primaries anyway.

GamutSoftClipping.thumb.png.f0fb20c552b16674dc10c05f0a4f6a59.png

Without soft clipping the gamut:

GamutClipped.thumb.png.4740d3be34472be323541bdbb2f5c6d2.png

Thanks Captain Hook, that looks much better.

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Don't think that it is merely a CC problem, because the reds clip even in an ungraded image where all the others colors are muted. I am glad and relieved that you can solve the problem with the solution provided by Captain Hook. It works, and it works well when you shoot in raw. But if you shoot with a baked lut in prores, it will be much more difficult to bypass it, because the saturation mapping will possibly affect all your image. 
If you observe it carefully, you can see that the reds clipping can be found in most of the clips in youtube, when there is a city night scene. Most of the times, it is not totally disturbing, because those scenes are rare enough. But if I have to shoot a film that takes place at night in a city, I know I can't really shoot it in prores, for now, with this camera. 
 

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9 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

The overexposed super saturated LEDs are clipping the gamut. This will happen with Gen 4 on 4.6K too. You can reduce the issue by soft clipping the gamut using the colour space transform Resolve FX plugin. Here I am using the Broadcast gamut because the Pocket 4K option isn't in the colour space transform plugin at this time but they are actually the same gamut/primaries anyway.

GamutSoftClipping.thumb.png.f0fb20c552b16674dc10c05f0a4f6a59.png

Without soft clipping the gamut:

GamutClipped.thumb.png.4740d3be34472be323541bdbb2f5c6d2.png

It looks a little like the famous Orbs issues with Blackmagic cinema camera, that many initial users reported, till Blackmagic finallynaddressed it with a firmware issue. 

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17 hours ago, deezid said:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lYduNOHyHSZj_SZPlRy96GJdZUFj8L6ZÔĽŅ

A short dynamic range comparison by @tidefilm
Matched the source files (the shadows of the GH5s are completely desaturated) and added a bit of blur to take away the edge.

Please download the file. The Pocket 4K smokes the GH5s in this test, it's not even fair. Not only no sharpening but also way cleaner. The GH5s shows some horizontal noise patterns (was shot at 25p)

I definitely prefer the softer, less digital look of the P4K image, really nice. The noise levels are mostly due to playing to the weaknesses of the GH5s though, by underexposing in V-Log.

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1 hour ago, matthere said:

 

Finally we learn some things.

I liked his Japan footage especially the original BMPCC stuff. I find the comments interesting about the cleaner, sharper look of the new camera and missing the grain texture of the original. Maybe cameras should start to have a 'low-fi' mode or a more analogue mode which tunes down the modern look. It would save a lot of work in post. Digital Bolex still one of my favourite looks in that respect, it's even less clean and digital looking than the original BMPCC.

So the 4K/60P in RAW only goes to 10 seconds to the best CFast 2.0 and Samsung T5, so looks like we'll have to wait for BMRAW to get longer record times in that. The data rates are just too big for the current media in DNG.

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Indeed. Helpful FAQ video. AF related too. I know a few of you spend hours of discussion on some pixel peeping when to my perspective, AF and IBIS are the crucial points of a $1-1.5 device.

These cameras are or should be designed to be operated for a single shooter at any rate or some other doesn't mean much else : ) We are in 4Q 2018... : -)

18 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Sorry about the detour then...

Can the GH5 shoot 60p at 180 with no flicker?

@Emanuel nice link - but I still feel like you're opening holes to make mistakes in by choosing 60p. All you're gaining is slightly slower footage, but in my opinion it's costing a lot both on the shoot and in the edit. You need to ensure your shutter speed is right (with 50p anything will work regarding the flicker), and you're locked into slow motion.

If you're making a documentary it's very hard to tell how you want to use our footage until you're editing it. At 60p you can't do any ramping or play with it at all really.

I think this may immediately answer you or anyone else shooting under those conditions:

image.png.7b4953207b8c9e01738769afdcba6fdf.png

: -)

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5 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

So the 4K/60P in RAW only goes to 10 seconds to the best CFast 2.0 and Samsung T5, so looks like we'll have to wait for BMRAW to get longer record times in that. The data rates are just too big for the current media in DNG.

You can record 4k60p in RAW on the Pocket4k with no problems. You just need to use 3:1 or 4:1 RAW, so no need to wait for BRAW (another compressed RAW format).

I really don't know anyone who needs uncompressed RAW though. The Red Weapon doesn't do uncompressed RAW at all, only compressed at 2:1 and up. Is there anyone here that would say the Weapon is not good enough for them?

IF the Pocket4K's USB port is USB3.1 Gen 2, then maybe we'll see an external drive like an NMVE drive, be able to record uncompressed but again, you really don't need it.

Generally, you need two SSD's working as a RAID configuration to get uncompressed RAW. The Convergent Design Odyssey can only record uncompressed RAW CDNG  at 4K60p when there are SSD's in both slots and your files end up needing to be merged afterwards. Wile it's not technically a RAID config, it does send every second frame to the second SSD as the data rates are just too high for a single SSD to handle. Same as Ursa Mini Pro, you need two CFast Cards in the camera for Uncompressed at 60p

 

4 hours ago, Emanuel said:

These cameras are or should be designed to be operated for a single shooter at any rate or some other doesn't mean much else : ) We are in 4Q 2018... : -)

Maybe 2018 has made people soft. I don't know when it started that people had to have Autofocus and IBIS to be able to shoot on their own. Remember the Canon 5D that started this whole DSLR video revolution, it didn't have usable AF in video mode or IBIS and we all shot fine with that.

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