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Disappointing Panasonic GH5 Mark II specs leak in Japan – Where is the GH6?


Andrew Reid
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17 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

It's so self sabotaging, because by doing this to your customers pretty much ensures that they're never going to buy your products again. 

I love my GH5. I love the XLR adapter. It is such a compact set up. I use it for everything from filming pro wrestling to interviews. I don't have to build up a rig unless I want to... just throw a lens on, connect the XLR adapter and you can get excellent results. No fuss. 

I WANT to stay. Give me a reason to! Can't lead the pack with specs now that full frame has caught up? Fine! Innovate in other ways! What's stopping you from putting a GH5 into a GX85 body? I'd buy two, along with a GH6! Nothing would delight me more than even smaller, lighter cameras! I'd carry one with me pretty much at all times! 

And I don't believe this notion that you can't sell a kick ass GH6 for less than a S5 because the truth is there's a segment of the full frame market that won't consider a M43 camera no matter what the specs are. Go for broke, fuck it! Or just give people what they want: I mean just adding phase detect AF alone to decent bumps in specs would sell a bunch of new M43 cameras! 

I would buy a gx85 with gh5 internals 

 

Ive been loyal to Panasonic but i think they want me to leave for sony so badly i be a fool to keep believing now

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1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

It'd be very difficult for me to go with Panasonic again. I'm very skeptical about the L-mount alliance's long term viability, and frankly I'm not too eager to go with Panasonic again just out of principle, even though their cameras are my ideal tool. 

I was really hoping to at least wait it out until Fuji finally nailed a video focused camera that didn't overheat and had no record limits. So if I do something this year it seems like Sony is the likely destination, and that bums me out because I don't get the same joy out of using Sony cameras as I do pretty much every other company. 

Panasonic never should've gone full frame. It was too late into the game, people had already chosen their horse. And now they're on the verge of abandoning one of the most loyal customer bases in the camera business. 

They have the best full frame camera on the market right now though. Which is why I’m sticking with them.

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5 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

They have the best full frame camera on the market right now though. Which is why I’m sticking with them.

I agree, which is what is frustrating. But I can't trust a company that does this to their customers. 

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Let me point out a few things that could have been updated without needing a new sensor (and which, other than I think Canon for HEIF, none of the other manufacturers support, so this is hardly exclusive to Panasonic):

  • HEIF as an option or in lieu of JPEG. That’s easy to add since HEIF is just a subset of H.265.
  • DCI P3 or ProPhoto RGB image space for HEIF or JPEG.
  • Apple’s ProRAW, a demosaiced DNG with tags for tone mapping, as a raw format.

One thing specific to Panasonic I’d like to have seen — other than a new sensor, phase detect autofocus, and the viewfinder and monitor from the S1 — is Bluetooth 5. They’re still using Bluetooth 4.2 from 2014.

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1 hour ago, TomTheDP said:

They have the best full frame camera on the market right now though. Which is why I’m sticking with them.

This...but that’s not ideal is it?

Rhetorical question!

I suspect it may have something to do with that they are an electronics giant first and only relatively recently, a camera company. And the camera side, just a tiny division of the whole.

Having said that, according to many reports, THE camera company, Leica, have pretty poor customer service.

Then again, so many if not most companies have less than good customer service and the bigger they are, the worse it often is.

I think Panny just need to do a couple of things to survive if not absolutely fly and these are:

PDAF ASAP

Sort out their marketing both internally (ie as a company) and externally (ie, in having a strong proactive set of photographers/filmmakers) as so often is the case these days, it’s ‘influencers’ who can have a massive effect on the success of a product.

Refine & define their product line, but mostly the first two points.

But then as has been said so many times in recent years, especially the last, most of the camera companies are just one or two elements away from producing a complete product, yet none of them seem able to. Which is utterly baffling to me...

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2 hours ago, arson519 said:

I would buy a gx85 with gh5 internals 

 

Ive been loyal to Panasonic but i think they want me to leave for sony so badly i be a fool to keep believing now

Dunno how it is in other countries, and, remember, I'm an amateur, not a professional.

But I'm offloading my m43 lenses and bodies after switching to Fuji (with a VERY bitter taste, started in photo / video with a GH2 and love the format), and in the Marketplace m43 groups in Facebook (very bad to sell, but very good to advertise) the GX85 is the most sought camera. Sold mine in less than 5 hours (!).

It is a hit with musicians trying to make their own videos, and with people make country (called "sertanejo" here) and gospel music videos. Lesser known wedding video people loves it too.

If they think that GH6 is a dead end, make a GX or G camera with no record limits and PDAF, and with full sensor readout. Could even be only 8-bit internal. Price it 899 USD and probably will be a hit.

If fact, the X-S10 is exactly like that. 8-bit internal or 10-bit external, good (not amazing, but miles ahead Panasonic) video AF, good color, 30 min limit. Even have things like punch-in focus during recording, a thing that the GXs and G lines never had, and was a VERY strong point for me. If Fuji make the IBIS works a little bit better for video, and sort some weird behaviours in video AF, will be a MASSIVE hit in the 2nd hand market here soon - and will make them move a lot of lenses.

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I confess to not being a pro, but I still love the system. I tried FF, but just didn't see the value in it for me. If people want to sell their M43 stuff, I'm game. Slowly but surely, I'll be grabbing up all the "reject" M43 stuff until I have the best kit possible in the system. I'm loving all the talk of people moving away from it in hopes the prices will tank, but I doubt it will.

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On 5/10/2021 at 7:23 PM, Andrew Reid said:

Complete unknown territory here - if the management have a clue, it is not enough in itself, they also need the investment! I would love to see them take a new sensor and processor, break the mould ergonomically, surprise us with ProRes, and even a dedicated small OM-D cinema camera or two.

But this needs the big investment and the demand from customers. I just can't quite see this being the most likely outcome.

Who apart from a very small niche is asking for an Olympus cinema camera?

Well... an OM-D E-M1C at any rate. What a mouth full 🙂

It might be a lot easier for JIP to do what they did with Sony VIVO laptops.

Chinese stuff with a fancy badge.

You're probably right @Andrew Reid. However, JIP has set aside money for investing in Olympus and it's still early days, but they don't need to do much in order to make them significantly better for video. Judging from past performance, they have had significant talent on their engineering team, but video wasn't their forte. The LOG they came up with was a bad omen for their video ventures. However, PDAF works really well in video and personally, I'd trade 10 bit or Prores for that... it was the FIRST thing I looked for in a potential GH5 successor. Sadly, PDAF probably won't be coming in a new GH5.

Here's a question : what video feature would you trade in a GH5 for a E-M1 iii's PDAF? 10 bit? Seeing luma levels?

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3 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

Here's a question : what video feature would you trade in a GH5 for a E-M1 iii's PDAF? 10 bit? Seeing luma levels?

All the 6K stuff and 180p etc.

I've just come to realise that if this were any other normal year ( no pandemic) I would have bought a A7Siii or FX3 and be done with it (even though I prefer Panasonic ergonomics and image). It's just easier working with other people who all seem to have Sony. In the past it was Canon when I had my C100. 

It's a shame. If the S5 had a good EVF I'd be really interested. I'm not sure I'm really that interested in waiting for better m43 and I have a fine set of lenses including the 10-25 and Voigts but I'm in the process of selling them.

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What video-centric buyer in their right minds would 'upgrade' to a GH5 MkII, or buy into M43 with Panasonic, when a Pocket 4k with Gen5 colour science can be had so cheaply?  If anyone from BlackMagic Design is reading this thread, please raid your parts bin and make a Pocket 4K Pro, or a 6K with M43 mount... with your Gen 5 colour science and an EVF, I'd imagine you'd convince a fair few video-oriented GH5 owners and prospective GH6 owners to switch brands...

I agree this doesn't bode well for M43, and it's not looking like a GH6 is coming.  I imagine a lot of GH owners like me bought into the Metabones style speedboosters, and own S35 and full frame lenses, so if Panasonic think GH owners will wait even longer for a GH6 to arrive, they're bonkers... more likely, this is a face-saving way to let the GH series fade out.  There are plenty of other paths for upgrade to S35 or full frame sensors... and maybe that's the problem... lots of potential GH6 owners have probably already moved on.

Personally I've been waiting for the GH6, but I think I'll move on now.  At this price point, for GH owners like me who don't have any M43 lenses, there are much better options than a GH5 Mk2.  For a bit more cash than a GH5 Mk2 you can have a Sigma FP L for a small form factor, or one of BlackMagic Design's cameras if weather-sealing and hybrid use don't matter, or a Z-cam S6.  We're spoilt for choice right now Panasonic, you seem to have forgotten that. Such a shame.

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Weird move frome Panasonic indeed. I wonder what the improvements would be but probably incremental.

Panasonic has always innovated, always took the lead when it comes to video since the release of the GH2. And I have started using Panny since I first saw footage that compared the GH2 to the much more popular 7D / 5D Mark II at the time. 
I had multiple bodies over the years. First the GH3, bought on the day of release. The GH5 and GH5-S, same story. At first the S1 didn't appeal to me much, because I was shooting with a GH5-s with speedbooster already and the upgrade looked incremental due to a lack of 4k 60 fps in 10-bit. The S1H was too expensive.

But I couldn't resist the urge to go for a better sensor, so after a year or so I sold off my GH5, GH5-s, G7 and speed boosters and lenses. Now I have S1's, an S5 and I recently bought a 2nd hand S1H for a very good price.

It's interesting how I now have zero interest anymore in a new GH-camera. Or even new camera's from other brands that aren't major upgrades with tons of new features. I'm satisfied. I reached the point of 'this is good enough for years to come'. Finally. After all the camera's I own, I now no longer care about gear.

I mean, I can now shoot 4k 50 fps in 10-bit LOG with incredible dynamic range in anamorphic mode with anamorphic preview and even anamorphic compensated IBIS. I got myself a set of Sirui lenses with modified L-mounts and called it a day. In 4:3 mode the sensor crop is slightly taller than the 16:9 s35 crop, leading to a crop factor of around 1.35x when shooting with a 1.33x anamorphic lens. That's close enough to full frame to me. 

And when the project calls for it, or I need to go a little wider, I can change to the 5.4k 3:2 mode. Amazing really. The camera's are a joy to operate. The buttons feel 'right'. The EVF's are brilliant (minus the one of the S5). I got a Sigma 85mm f1.4 DN and a Lumix 24-70 for photography and the AF is very good. More than good enough for the kind of photo's I take.

Why am I writing this? Because I think many people feel like this in 2021. The current gear on the market is so 'affordable' and good and unlike 5 years ago, there is plenty of competition and alternative in the video world.

I honestly can't see what a GH6 would bring to the table to make me enthousastic for even a second. I think GH-folks also underestimate how good the S1-line camera's are these days, especially ater the firmware updates. Much cleaner images. It's just a shame you can't use your GH-glass on the the S-camera's. But I think most of us were on some kind of speedbooster anyway. So nothing changes there. And Panasonic knows it. They can't release a €2000,- GH6 that is worse in a lot of things than their S1 / S5 due to the smaller sensor. And cheaper is probably not viable for Panasonic. They simply aren't as big as Sony or Canon and don't sell that much.

It's funny how good Panasonic has treated us videomakers since forever, but marketingwise they aren't exactly like Apple. The product presentations with the old uncharismatic men. The 'Lumix' brand, which has as much appeal as a Toyota. I feel like they could have accomplished so much more if they had a more established brand. Or if people would take them more serious. And what was that cinema box release last year. Or that G100 'VLOGGING camera'  with shitty AF and no IBIS. Video quality and feature wise, Panasonic always has been on top. And still, the competition (a7sIII / Canon R5) offer no anamorphic modes, overheat and lack a lot of monitoring tools.

How many times I have heard from people 'What is that? A Lumix??'. 'Yea it's Panasonic'. 
And Panasonic is even a known name in the cinema world with their Varicams. The brand Lumix shouldn't have existed. The same goes for 'Micro four thirds'. Which man wants to have anything Micro in life? It always sounded like a compromise. Micro is better, until the 'Full Frame' (as in, the complete picture) steps up. And it has. A S5 or similar offerings from other brands is now under € 2000,-. 

I say it's game over for small sensors. And Panasonic has some work to do with their branding and future releases. Because I fear for their future as well.

But as long as my S-line camera's keep working, I will be shooting 10-bit anamorphic slowmo in LOG with 12.4 stops dynamic range, in body stabilised, for years to come. 

 

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26 minutes ago, Stab said:

It's interesting how I now have zero interest anymore in a new GH-camera. Or even new camera's from other brands that aren't major upgrades with tons of new features. I'm satisfied. I reached the point of 'this is good enough for years to come'. Finally. After all the camera's I own, I now no longer care about gear.

Pretty much where I am right now.

That will not be the case forever of course, but I can't see a scenario for me doing anything different now for the next 3+ years, ie, I'm set and have reached 'peak camera'.

I still have an interest in what's going on out there, just not as a buyer, but as above, what I have is 'good enough for years to come'. In fact, MORE than good enough.

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9 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

The only Mark II of an entire series is a product company telling you politely that the series is dead.

I think they would have been better to have a formal wake and celebrate the legacy and then promote their new L-Mount commitment. 

Possibly true, but they did produce several Mark II cameras a few years ago when things were not looking so bad for them, including a GX7 II. That was just for the Japanese market, in the rest of the world it was called GX80/85. Is it possible this GH5 II is just for the Japanese market too?

 

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