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SIGMA FP with ProRes RAW and BRAW !


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So to follow up on that whooping 35 minute short film from Sigma, I just found that they'd released a Behind-the-Scenes video highlighting the crew's experience using the FP for the project and what t

The fact that this beautifully designed and engineered camera doesn’t overheat thanks to it’s clever use of a heatsink puts many other manufacturers to shame. They should thus take notice and pay thei

Man, this new firmware update is MASSIVE. Definitely breaths a ton of new life into the FP and fixes a few of the issues that Caleb mentioned in his video!  However, I feel it's worth noting that

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External recording though. For me buying a tiny camera and then adding a lot of bulk around it(charging even more batteries), isnt for me. Then I rather have a bigger camera that I dont need to rig up.

Allthough good news that braw is starting to move around to more cameras. Maybe on the next iteration they can do it internal.

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Maybe one day Atomos will take the hint about doing a 4K Ninja Star.

Of course with the fp being able to record to an external SSD itself you would imagine it might be unecessary to use a full on external system anyway but I'm guessing this might be the only way to currently deal with RED's patent.

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6 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Maybe one day Atomos will take the hint about doing a 4K Ninja Star.

Of course with the fp being able to record to an external SSD itself you would imagine it might be unecessary to use a full on external system anyway but I'm guessing this might be the only way to currently deal with RED's patent.

4K Ninja Star with ProRes Raw would be unbelievable. The kind of thing worth having just in case you happen to find yourself next to one of the capable cameras.

I could be wrong, but this update sounds like it outputs the raw signal and it's up to the recorder to wrap that into whatever raw format it's capable of. Since BMD create Braw on a sensor by sensor basis, Sigma have left that development up to BMD. To get Braw internal, they'd then have to license it from BMD? Making it external means the user effectively pays for that license, through a purchase of the Video Assists.

ProRes RAW is more complicated for internal I guess, since Atomos pay fees to RED.

If that's correct, in the chain of licensing, Braw only has 1 party involved and ProRes RAW has 3 (Atomos, Apple and RED)

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23 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

4K Ninja Star with ProRes Raw would be unbelievable. The kind of thing worth having just in case you happen to find yourself next to one of the capable cameras.

Another one they need to make really is an EVF with in built recorder, something which is much more viable now with the tiny SSDs.

Having it in an EVF format would add so much value to a lot of cameras, particularly fixed screen ones like the fp and Pocket4K/6K.

23 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

I could be wrong, but this update sounds like it outputs the raw signal and it's up to the recorder to wrap that into whatever raw format it's capable of. Since BMD create Braw on a sensor by sensor basis, Sigma have left that development up to BMD. To get Braw internal, they'd then have to license it from BMD? Making it external means the user effectively pays for that license, through a purchase of the Video Assists.

ProRes RAW is more complicated for internal I guess, since Atomos pay fees to RED.

If that's correct, in the chain of licensing, Braw only has 1 party involved and ProRes RAW has 3 (Atomos, Apple and RED)

In an ideal world, RED would license R3D directly to camera manufacturers to stop the hoop jumping and I'd presumed their link up with Canon over the KOMODO was going to do just that with the R5 but as far as I understand that isn't the case.

 

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Firmware updates are required for the Atomos and Blackmagic Design recorders for this to work; as of right now those firmware updates haven't been released. It also looks like it can record regular ProRes HQ and lower on the older BMD Video Assist 4K (BRAW requires the new BMD Video Assist models).

This update changes the equation for the fp and makes it a very strong contender (for me at least) for a one-camera-to-do-it all. I currently shoot video with BMD Micro Cinema cameras so I'm already used to having to use an external monitor on a small camera. The cinema mode on the fp "speaks" cinema (shutter angle, etc.) so it would be a simple transition for me. The fact that I can take high-quality stills with the fp as well as video makes it a very attractive option for travel; currently I carry one camera for stills and another for video...none of the hybrid cameras on the market have appealed to me until now. I almost never use autofocus (most of my lenses are manual; I never use autofocus in video and only occasionally in stills) so I don't care about any limitations on that front with the fp. I am concerned about moire in the fp and the lack of real in-body stabilization is a small disappointment but I don't have that with my current cameras either so it's not something I need.

At this point the only thing keeping me from jumping on the fp bandwagon is the desire to wait and see what new camera(s) come from Sony for the A7 series this year.

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2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Blimey.

Thats not just a v2 of the firmware its more or less v2 of the whole camera.

A certain someone's YouTube video hasn't aged well has it @Andrew Reid ? ;)

Screenshot 2020-06-24 at 20.54.42.png

What a TERRIBLE camera!

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

In an ideal world, RED would license R3D directly to camera manufacturers to stop the hoop jumping and I'd presumed their link up with Canon over the KOMODO was going to do just that with the R5 but as far as I understand that isn't the case.

R3D or at least the overall compressed RAW patent. Would help out the industry a lot.

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Man, this new firmware update is MASSIVE. Definitely breaths a ton of new life into the FP and fixes a few of the issues that Caleb mentioned in his video! 

However, I feel it's worth noting that Sigma confirmed in a new interview with one of the sites that can't be linked here that they were ultimately unable to create a proper LOG/flat profile for the FP due to technical limitations... So apparently that's not coming any time soon for the camera. Not the end of the world, as I'd wager most filmmakers buying this camera are investing in it for the various RAW codecs it can provide internally and externally. Hopefully though the next model in the FP lineup fixes that issue and provides a LOG profile at launch. 

In cheerier news though, Sigma just released a whopping 35 minute long narrative short film shot entirely on the FP! Unsurprisingly, it looks pretty great.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, rawshooter said:

The main problem with the camera's RAW video still persists, even with external ProRes RAW/BRAW: It doesn't record a pixel-to-pixel 6K sensor image, but scales down the RAW from 6K to 4K - so that you get a pseudo-Bayer pattern with all kinds of visual/line skipping artefacts.

 

:-((

Yes but it still looks amazing and is half the price of the 6K S1H, which is the only one to do the full 6K RAW output.

To say it has line skipping artefacts is a big exaggeration in my opinion.

The image is very nice.

I am curious to see if the Super 35mm mode works in ProRes RAW / BRAW.

Something else Sigma could look at in the future is a 1.3x crop mode for native DCI 4K RAW without the downsampling.

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Just installed and tested the firmware, with the following results:

- CinemaDNG recordings now have proper synchronized audio in Resolve, but Resolve still doesn't recognize them as CinemaDNG sequences, only as DNG stills sequences with attached audio. I.e. it does see them as clips, but only as folders containing DNGs, and you need to recursively import them ("Import folders and subfolders").

This also means that you cannot use Sigma fp's CinemaDNG in the Cut module.

- In stills mode, the 0.1s shutter delay is unchanged. (Which also means the image you see frozen on the display after pressing the shutter is not the image that gets recorded/stored - you can test that by shooting a digital stopwatch.) So I guess this is a hardware issue and unfixable. 😞 

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15 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

So does the ARRI Alexa 

In fact, this doesn't make her to not attract me as a hell of a camera, lovely imagerie in so handy form factor, unique of a kind. Just can't justify to myself to have her, a pity. I'm afraid I won't have anything to object when Mark II will be out there.

Until then, my Magic Lantern Canon Ms, no 4K60p either, do the job ; )

 

Mini Alexa is a proper 'petit nom' for now : -)

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So to follow up on that whooping 35 minute short film from Sigma, I just found that they'd released a Behind-the-Scenes video highlighting the crew's experience using the FP for the project and what their thoughts on it were!

 

Gotta say, if Sigma continue to listen to the feedback they're getting on this camera and keep that in mind moving forward, I cannot wait to see what Sigma's followup camera to the FP will be like. They've got a monster of a camera on their hands, just iron out some quirks here and there and the next model will be insane.

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It's a nice update but most of the criticism still stands. The camera has so much potential because of its size. Putting a monitor on defeats the purpose. So not being able to do Log seems like a missed opportunity to me, along with the lack of internal codec. 

I do hope they come out with a mark II. 

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30 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

That shortfilm is second to none compared to every ”branding video” I’ve seen made with cameras in this price range. Really impressive.

Yeah, the only short film that I can think of that even begins to compete with it for me is A Different Beyond that Fujifilm used to promote the video capabilities of the X-T3. And that short had Matthew Libatique as the director!

Sigma went all out with this short film. It's a genuinely compelling story being told by a talented filmmaker and cast and crew. The colors coming out of the FP look like something you'd see in a painting. Subtle, but rich.

1 minute ago, Yurolov said:

It's a nice update but most of the criticism still stands. The camera has so much potential because of its size. Putting a monitor on defeats the purpose. So not being able to do Log seems like a missed opportunity to me, along with the lack of internal codec. 

I do hope they come out with a mark II. 

Sigma did seem to confirm that they're working on a new model in that same interview with the site that shall not be named and that they were aiming to continue to improve the autofocus on that model. Pretty vague overall, but it'd be nice if that were to turn out to mean that Sigma might switch over to Phase Detect autofocus at least.

Like I said earlier; Sigma has a beast of a camera already with the FP. They could cause quite a storm in the industry if they implement the various key adjustments here and there that customers are suggesting for the successor model.

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