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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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Let's finally put this on track please. Topic related as much as possible. Respecting who hosts us only fits it, as well. I am done to come here to read personal attacks addressed to each other. People must learn to respect the difference. All are entitled to take a respectful tone towards our own side included -- aka the boomerang effect. This is a camera forum. Not a battle field. No one earns anything to hurt anyone or someone as target. When we don't appreciate something or someone, the best is to save to ourselves. Keep it civil. No freedom of speech can justify that. Only common sense will overcome to extract a pretty decent overview as fair conclusion, whether serves us and our side whether not.

 

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1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yes exactly. Surely me and Philip together, have a much larger reach to GH5 / Pocket users, than Nino/Johnnie? Did Cinema5D even write any Blackmagic Pocket camera articles prior to this? It is all cine lenses, audio boxes, cages, pro cameras.

Why does it matter if they have covered it in the past? They are well respected working DPs who could bring the pocket 4k to the pro market. Which is likely what BMD wants. I am just perplexed about why you dislike cinema5d so much. It seems personal and is becoming sort of an internet joke on other youtube channels. It makes me sad because I've benefited so much from your work. I've also benefitted from Nino and Johnnie. The biggest difference though isn't that they are "conventional pros" (That matters very little to me. I owe some of my success to your knowledge, insight, and point of view). There's a stark contrast in the level of professionalism displayed towards colleagues. 

You probably should have been invited to those events. I would have loved seeing your take! But bad mouthing other people who were invited won't help change that. 

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It's a clash of personalities and philosophies. It does happen in life. Shit happens.

Johnnie puts a lot of emphasis on the STATUS of being a pro and not enough on the art-form.

Nino once met me in Berlin and half way through the chat he broke off for 10 minutes to answer a call. Businessman first and foremost, friend second.

They're not my colleagues, we don't work for the same company, and I am not out to please other bloggers who I don't respect. Only the ones I do respect. I care about my real life friends and readers

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Would they invite people to come and see it on the 19th Sept, if it'd already been released by then? They're also inviting people to come see the URSA Mini Pro too, so hopefully there's nothing in this, just another reason for them to mention the camera... 

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32 minutes ago, theriley25 said:

Why does it matter if they have covered it in the past? They are well respected working DPs who could bring the pocket 4k to the pro market. Which is likely what BMD wants.

It matters that they covered Blackmagic it in the past. The way the internet works is you cultivate an audience based on subjects.

The Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera is for the EOSHD crowd and the URSA is more in line for the Cinema5D audience. You only have to briefly glance at the front page of both sites to see that, don't you?!

Just now, Anaconda_ said:

Would they invite people to come and see it on the 19th Sept, if it'd already been released by then? They're also inviting people to come see the URSA Mini Pro too, so hopefully there's nothing in this, just another reason for them to mention the camera... 

That's not in the UK so not expecting to be invited.

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I'm trying to move on from that and talk about the camera, and find out when they might be making an announcement.

Anyway, you kind of are already invited as it's an open invite, so if anyone is in the area or if you can grab plane ticket, you can go. Same as IBC or Photokina I guess. 

Let's progress?

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15 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

It's a clash of personalities and philosophies. It does happen in life. Shit happens.

Johnnie puts a lot of emphasis on the STATUS of being a pro and not enough on the art-form.

Nino once met me in Berlin and half way through the chat he broke off for 10 minutes to answer a call. Businessman first and foremost, friend second.

They're not my colleagues, we don't work for the same company, and I am not out to please other bloggers who I don't respect. Only the ones I do respect. I care about my real life friends and readers

I'd say that since you work in the same industry that you are colleagues, wouldn't you? My point is just that when we all respect each other and can work together (despite our personal feelings) the filmmaking community benefits. A rising tide benefits all the ships in the harbor!

I'm a fan of yours who has benefited a lot from your blog so please don't take this as me being negative. I want you to succeed. It just seems like you're the only one doing the "clashing" and when you bring up Johnnie and Nino up constantly it stands out (especially when others, like myself, have had positive interactions with them). 

I'll back off on the topic since others want to move on. I'm looking forward to your pocket 4k review!

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2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yes exactly. Surely me and Philip together, have a much larger reach to GH5 / Pocket users, than Nino/Johnnie? Did Cinema5D even write any Blackmagic Pocket camera articles prior to this? It is all cine lenses, audio boxes, cages, pro cameras.

I’ve enjoyed and been inspired by Johnnie’s work with consumer cameras since I first saw his work for the BBC with the Sony HX9V. I like the fact that he has constantly tested and used low cost cameras in his posts over the last few years. Knowing what was potentially possible from low cost kit (I don’t have his skills) helped me gradually move into video (from photography - https://flic.kr/s/aHsjzwBqhD) to the point I felt comfortable enough in creating videos, that my last contract was creating films only, for a government body.

I won’t talk about the other Cinema5D posts as yes, they aren’t probably aimed at me but it’s unfair to say they only create articles about high end kit.

 

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32 minutes ago, Jrsisson said:

I’ve enjoyed and been inspired by Johnnie’s work....

it’s unfair to say they only create articles about high end kit.

I've had a similar experience! Johnnie's article on working with the a7s for broadcast during initial outbreak of the Syrian refugee crisis helped me immensely as I was working on a similar project overseas (https://www.cinema5d.com/working-with-the-sony-a7s-for-broadcast-part-ii/)! He and the rest of those guys do a great job of real world reviews and practical tips with a wide range of stuff. Ironically, Andrew's initial thoughts on the a7s helped convince me to switch to Sony from Panasonic. Two different perspectives helping the same user. Imagine that! ;) 

I'll be curious to see what cinema5d's perspective is of the pocket 4k from a real world working DP standpoint. I'll also be looking at this site for a brash/raw self proclaimed camera nerd's perspective of the camera. I think a lot of us have some of both in us. 

Has John Brawley or any other DP posted their thoughts after working with the camera? I know sample footage has come out, just curious if there are any hands on reviews out there from the initial batch of BMD selected filmmakers?

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1 hour ago, theriley25 said:

Has John Brawley or any other DP posted their thoughts after working with the camera? I know sample footage has come out, just curious if there are any hands on reviews out there from the initial batch of BMD selected filmmakers?

People seem to be making a big deal about the fact that there hasn't been an in depth review yet of this camera...which hasn't even been released.

Tell me, how many other camera manufacturers have allowed in depth critical reviews of their cameras pre release?

Go to your BMD retailer when they are in stock, test the camera out yourself and make your decision based on what you experience and with the other reviews that will come out once the camera is released.

It seems that the real issue here is that people today are just too damn impatient.

Then we have people complaining about the release being delayed even though we are still in September. Have people really gone ahead and planned a shoot for October 1...is that why everyone is so impatient?

Seems like everyone has a case of the Veruca Salts!

 

 

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Well I guess I'm glad that the latest eruption of passion surrounding cameras is no longer asserting itself in the form of a flaming microscope rammed up against a particular spec, colorspace or frame rate.  That confirms where we've arrived in terms of true value with current and soon-to-be-released cameras.

I'm a bit mystified that camera launches are now a point of critical concern.  I would've given my left nut for a camera like the pocket 4K a few years ago, so I think it's a bit of a stretch to also demand that mfrs start marketing cameras in a way that we personally approve of.  And I also think it's completely insane that we would knock a person's work because we might not approve of their style and they were lucky enough to get a demo unit pre-release.  That just feels snarky to me.  Filmmaking is a diverse realm, with a diverse audience - regardless of clicks.

That being said, I do think Reid is long overdue for a launch with BM, so I get the rant completely.  That's probably because I dig the shooting style (which is definitely under-represented in recent camera launches) and unvarnished attitude even when I don't agree with it 100%.

I wish BM would show the same level of guts in how they show off their latest products as Reid does skewering dumb feature implementations and design choices.  It concerns me a little bit that one of the greatest camera price-disrupters of the last decade may have become... timid, in spite of their technical achievements.  I would hate to think that BM is beginning down the path of Adobe and Canon and playing it safe instead of being bold and owning it.

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15 minutes ago, MaxAperture Films said:

I would hate to think that BM is beginning down the path of Adobe and Canon and playing it safe instead of being bold and owning it.

Come on.....seriously?

$1300 for a camera with the specs of the Pocket4K AND a full license of Davinci Resolve? How exactly is that not being bold!

 

BMD have literally given everyone what they have been complaining about for years.....RAW, 4K60p, 10bit, great colour science, good dynamic range.....and at an amazing price so we now complain about the way they are marketing/releasing the camera?

It's official, camera companies will NEVER win.

 

 

 

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Where to start? I am here since GH2 / GH3 era, I suppose. That is the first time I decided to sign up and speak up. Quite frankly, it does not matter who gets the camera first, who makes and publishes a review first. It does not, really. Look at those that are available today ;) It does matter who we (the viewers) trust, and who we follow in our purchase decisions. Why? Because you can get tricked (if smart or old enough, of course) only once. EOSHD have been adding value to the viewers by providing trustworthy, first-hand information for many years. I have been following the recent announcements, sample footage and early reviews and I cannot stop myself asking, why companies like Canon, Nikon, Fujifilm, Blackmagic give their extremely advanced products to people that do not even understand the technology and / or a possible-art-to-be-created they are given into their hands. It is a shame, but it is also a sign of times, I guess. As far, as your BMD-related article is concerned, I would skip only the last line. We all have the right to have emotions and to express them 😄

  

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9 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

Come on.....seriously?

$1300 for a camera with the specs of the Pocket4K AND a full license of Davinci Resolve? How exactly is that not being bold!

Did you miss... "I wish BM would show the same level of guts in how they show off their latest products" ?

I wasn't speaking about features/performance, they are bold in the spec/price category for sure.  Companies like Canon and Adobe are notorious for being tone-deaf to their user base, so I'm just as befuddled as Reid as to why they would ignore a large community like this.

ETA - By bypassing the leader of that community with a history of trailblazing in the camera review space.

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12 minutes ago, MaxAperture Films said:

Did you miss... "I wish BM would show the same level of guts in how they show off their latest products" ?

I wasn't speaking about features/performance, they are bold in the spec/price category for sure.  Companies like Canon and Adobe are notorious for being tone-deaf to their user base, so I'm just as befuddled as Reid as to why they would ignore a large community like this.

To gain what? Seems they already have plenty of pre-orders. 

 

That Manchester event wasn't Andrews style. When was the last time you saw Andrew on camera repeating a boring old press release?

They aren't ignoring this community......they are giving it exactly what it wants.

 

 

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They are aware of this community and I bet things will happen much different from now on, rather than this last period to culminate in the infamous Manchester event. Let's move on! What are we doing here? Because of this new tool or just to continuously protest?! Against who? What for? : ) I want to believe everyone will find such finest path of our own at the very end. The best camera is the one you have in your hands, they are the reason for this place. On camera. Pictures instead are worthy. No matter the brand/manufacturer behind and beyond any discussion whatever it is : -)

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1 hour ago, A_Urquhart said:

BMD have literally given everyone what they have been complaining about for years.....RAW, 4K60p, 10bit, great colour science, good dynamic range.....and at an amazing price so we now complain about the way they are marketing/releasing the camera?

It's official, camera companies will NEVER win.

 

 

 

You must not have read the first half of my post where I pointed out the fact WE HAVE ARRIVED at Shangri La (on paper at least).  The post was expressing my general opinion which is multidimensional about the subject of recent events.  You seem to dig maniacally to uncover points of disagreement and blow them up as if my original post was somehow personally directed at you, which is strange.  I wasn't attacking BM or Reid, just giving a personal opinion for crying out loud.  Can you coexist with other people's viewpoints?

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