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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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48 minutes ago, mercer said:

Well IF BRaw gets implemented in the P4K, I believe he said they are working on it, do we know for sure it will be a free update?

For sure, it doesn't make sense otherwise. Like @John Brawley BRAW, BRaw whatever (funny acronym BTW) are a trademark of their own : D

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12 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

The XT3 is also more expensive and I'd have to replace my lenses,

If I got the xt3, I could sell my nx1, whereas with the p4k I'd need a stills camera as well. All my lenses are Nikon and canon, so I just need some adapters for the Fuji, whereas I'd need a speed booster for the p4k. So in my case, the xt3 is actually considerably cheaper!

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1 minute ago, Emanuel said:

For sure, it doesn't make sense otherwise. Like @John Brawley BRAW are trademark of their own : D

For sure it will be free? Because I’m not so sure. At a certain point we need to question what BM’s end game is here. This idea that they are for the little guy doesn’t pay their bills. Somebody posted that Olympus loses $150 for every camera they sell in the US... well at BM prices, how much are they losing? Is this just a way to get the user to an upgrade path? Are they only making a little per unit, so they are relying on quantity sold to make their profit? Are they going to release a better Resolve next NAB that makes the studio version antiquated?

In the end, it doesn’t matter much because the price of the P4K is still unbelievable and is the best deal on the market, but I think there may be some assumptions floating around. Good news is that the investment isn’t that large and BM doesn’t really drop the price of their cameras, so the resale value should hold up pretty well if the tool isn’t for you.

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19 minutes ago, mercer said:

Well IF BRaw gets implemented in the P4K, I believe he said they are working on it, do we know for sure it will be a free update?

That's true, but since its their own codec, it doesn't make sense to hold it back from their own customers. Especially since it's open for other manufacturers to use. I'd say its 100% going to be implemented, and 99.9% it'll be free.

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8 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

If I got the xt3, I could sell my nx1, whereas with the p4k I'd need a stills camera as well. All my lenses are Nikon and canon, so I just need some adapters for the Fuji, whereas I'd need a speed booster for the p4k. So in my case, the xt3 is actually considerably cheaper!

Nice. I mean, we could all sell stuff to offset the cost of any camera. Just like we all have our own lenses and accessories that only work with one system so it makes sense to stick to that system. I was just thinking about it myself and the only this the Fuji really has for me that the BM doesn't is the photo mode, which to me doesn't warrant the extra price, especially considering lenses etc. even if I did sell off all my current gear. It's much more stress too, I hate selling on the 2nd hand market, people here are cheapos.

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If the BRAW delivers as promised - to me the BMpcc4k gets an even better package - it almost makes the h264/5 10bit intra codecs look very dated...(and don't get me started on the 4:2:0 8bit variations...)

And did they just seal the proresraw fate?

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1 minute ago, dslnc said:

And did they just seal the proresraw fate?

I hope so. I've been waiting since the beginning for Prores Raw to be supported on any windows based NLE and Apple has been purposefully holding back. Apple deserves what is coming to them. 

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9 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

That's true, but since its their own codec, it doesn't make sense to hold it back from their own customers. Especially since it's open for other manufacturers to use. I'd say its 100% going to be implemented, and 99.9% it'll be free.

 

Well, there were a few instances in the past that BM said a camera was getting an upgrade or a spec was going to be included that never panned out so although I believe they are trying, I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t happen.

As far as what is available to other manufacturers, all I’ve heard is that the SDK is free for post workflows and an insinuation that other camera manufacturers can include BRaw in their cameras but I’m assuming there will be a licensing fee for those companies.

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15 minutes ago, dslnc said:

If the BRAW delivers as promised - to me the BMpcc4k gets an even better package - it almost makes the h264/5 10bit intra codecs look very dated...(and don't get me started on the 4:2:0 8bit variations...)

And did they just seal the proresraw fate?

Yes the codec's great, but nobody seems to be considering the whole package here, because there's no IBIS, no EVF, autofocus performance is yet to be proven, the battery life is miserable and the files will be VERY large at their highest quality.

You have to measure the EXACT difference in the final graded image between BRAW on this, and something like 10bit LOG on the X-T3.

I think for all the codec niceness the difference will be smaller than people think. Now ask yourself if it is worth the hassle of the strange form factor, no articulated screen, need to rig it up with EVF, external bits and a stabiliser...

It is also sensor-limited. We're not talking about a sensor as good as the X-T3 or A7 III. And the slow-mo is an even bigger crop.

Sure, I liked what ProRes and RAW brought to the image with the last Pocket camera, certainly in the creamy shadows and in low light.

But it was as good in 10bit ProRes as it was in Cinema DNG RAW.

So 10bit H.265 at the same bitrate as ProRes with Fuji F-LOG from a larger BSI 6K sensor with full pixel readout (possibly Samsung) has the potential to be just as good if not better.

Not to mention the fact it is much easier to go full frame on the S35 sensor with a Speed Booster than to turn the Pocket 4K sensor into no-crop.

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9 minutes ago, dslnc said:

And did they just seal the proresraw fate?

Nah, what they may have done is forced Apple to go a step further with ProRes Raw but I doubt Apple will abandon one of their products because a small company in Australia made a competing product. 

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That is hysterical. Prores RAW has only been out a few months and has already been implemented in Sony, Panasonic and Canon cinema cameras. It is up to NLEs to implement Prores RAW, not Apple. But yeah, Apple does deserve every bit that’s coming to them - all $850 billion dollars of it. 😂

8 minutes ago, Joek said:

I hope so. I've been waiting since the beginning for Prores Raw to be supported on any windows based NLE and Apple has been purposefully holding back. Apple deserves what is coming to them. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I think there's more than enough room for a few new raw codecs on the market.

RED raw did not kill any Apple codecs as far as I could tell!!

And ProRes is still the most widely used in the industry from what I understand. Yet we continue to hear from ppl every now and then that it’s absolute doggy poo. Very amusing.

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2 minutes ago, jonpais said:

That is hysterical. Prores RAW has only been out a few months and has already been implemented in Sony, Panasonic and Canon cinema cameras. It is up to NLEs to implement Prores RAW, not Apple. But yeah, Appke does desrce every bit that’s coming to them - all $850 billion dollars of it. 😂

 

Actually if you watch the announcement video of prores raw by Atomos, the CEO briefly mentions that Apple has restricted prores raw for the first 6 months. The reason we have access to prores raw on so many cameras right now is because the Atomos Inferno supports it. Apple and Atomos released prores raw together. I know there's been a feature request since the beginning to get support in premiere, and it currently has over 700 votes. Yet Adobe has had no word on an update, and seeing that it's been 5 months... 

6 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I think there's more than enough room for a few new raw codecs on the market.

RED raw did not kill any Apple codecs as far as I could tell!!

Well RED Raw is only available on red cameras so.... Blackmagic raw has the potential to be way more widespread 

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2 minutes ago, Joek said:

Actually if you watch the announcement video of prores raw by Atomos, the CEO briefly mentions that Apple has restricted prores raw for the first 6 months. The reason we have access to prores raw on so many cameras right now is because the Atomos Inferno supports it. Apple and Atomos released prores raw together. I know there's been a feature request since the beginning to get support in premiere, and it currently has over 700 votes. Yet Adobe has had no word on an update, and seeing that it's been 5 months... 

Out of curiosity, how good is Adobe with updates?

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