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Did Canon market the EOS R5 at video pros? Yes.


Andrew Reid
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What I don't get is why they didn't put in some form of passive cooling system into the R5 and R6?

Thin copper heat sink, thermal pad on the processor, water poof vents, etc...this doesn't cost much and would greatly improve recording times.

They must have know about the thermal limitations since the have a very detailed chart listing the estimated record times, so they must have tested every codec and record option.

Either they were ok with the limitations and thought they would get a pass or they screwed up and didn't really think through the design and just needed to put something out to stem the bleeding in the mirrorless segment.

Not sure at this point.

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So how does management spec out a camera, tell marketing to market it this way, and then engineering fall on its face?

Sounds like terrible communication between these departments.

The supposed internal breakdown of the camera that was posted shows no heat sink or thermal control on the circuit board at all.

How did this overwhelming obvious bug not get fixed? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that: boy this thing gets hot. Maybe we should try to cool it and have it no happen unless it was designed that way in the first place.

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It could have been a last moment marketing push to add the features.

And engineering didn't have the time to implement it properly.

Funny thing is, Richard Butler read all the press releases for the cameras and still wrote this.

The question is why? What did Canon tell him?

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38 minutes ago, Mandalorian said:

What I don't get is why they didn't put in some form of passive cooling system into the R5 and R6?

Thin copper heat sink, thermal pad on the processor, water poof vents, etc...this doesn't cost much and would greatly improve recording times.

Probably because they originally intended it to be a 4K pixel binning 30p 8bit cripple camera.

Then marketing looked at the Sony sales chart and A7S III rumours and wet the bed.

Then Japanese senior management approved the u-turn.

And the engineers went... Erm... ok!

A cock up all round!

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Kinda makes sense...but why not just announce it and say it’s shipping in Sept when the Sony ships. Give themselves more time to figure out a solution. No one is the wiser...

Like it or not they damaged their brand a bit and I think all the hyped up emotions around it is the 8K hype and spec teases they released. They worked...too well?

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Buy an S1H.

It's actually a bummer to see so many youtubers/bloggers/influences/blah supporting Canon and Sony as they continue to under-deliver. And here is Panasonic, who for 4-5 years now has been on an absolute roll (GH5 > GH5s > EVA-1 > S1 > S1H), giving us super reliable products with the best IQ and specs on the market with things we ask for (dual XRL, timecode, video tools).

Please, everyone buy Panasonic. I don't want to use a Sony in the future. And while I love the C200/C300III/C500II, I don't want a mirrorless camera that craps out after a few minutes. 

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33 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

Buy an S1H.

It's actually a bummer to see so many youtubers/bloggers/influences/blah supporting Canon and Sony as they continue to under-deliver. And here is Panasonic, who for 4-5 years now has been on an absolute roll (GH5 > GH5s > EVA-1 > S1 > S1H), giving us super reliable products with the best IQ and specs on the market with things we ask for (dual XRL, timecode, video tools).

Please, everyone buy Panasonic. I don't want to use a Sony in the future. And while I love the C200/C300III/C500II, I don't want a mirrorless camera that craps out after a few minutes. 

Lame AF performance of the S1H is a showstopper for many. 

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3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I've been saying all along that this was not intentional. When Canon wants to cripple something they have many tools in their belt but overheating is not one of them. I think the engineers were telling the executive leadership that it would overheat, it would take 6 more months to design a new body and proper cooling system, and the body would be larger; Canon knew that the A7SIII was on the way and decided they had to beat Sony to the launch; problems or not, especially now that we see their financials.....they probably felt that they couldn't afford to wait.

I believe this is also Canon's first attempt at IBIS which makes the overheating problem more severe. More than likely Canon leadership thought it wouldn't be that big of a problem in the real world and that being able to do 8K would make the limitations not matter.

TBH, I almost wonder if they did the right thing......I know it sounds crazy but maybe releasing a camera that is not fit for purpose and may require a small recall is still better than another 6 months with something like the EOS R as your flagship mirrorless camera while Sony launches the A7SIII.  At least Canon showed their full hand, might even get a decent number of R5's into photographers hands, then quickly release a version with everything fixed in another 6 months; literally this is a page from Sony's playbook. On top of that they released a chart showing just how bad the problem is....so you can't really start a class action lawsuit with a chart like that available.

And this crazy strategy might even be working, I know that I for one feel like Canon will release a functional hybrid model within the next 12 months and the R5 and R6 are just good enough to show me how good it could be if Canon does release an updated model. There is no way Canon is going to leave it like this for the next 4yrs.

 

 

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2 hours ago, wobba said:

Lame AF performance of the S1H is a showstopper for many. 

Sometimes i want to sell my S1H because of its AF that's not on par with the offeringd of the competition. But then I think about my needs and realize I don't shoot sports, i don't shoot fast action, i usually shoot interviews, corporate, docs, and i'd love to go more tow fictional kind of shoot (narrative). 

And i tell myself why would I need another camera for those controlled environments i'm shooting in? 

Panasonic bodies are so reliable, but hey they're not as trendy as all those cameras from Canon ans Sony that all the bloggers show. 

That's a shame. The AF is a lame excuse to me. I rather have a reliable camera, a workhorse with not so good continuous af than an unreliable camera with fast blazing af. 

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22 minutes ago, Trankilstef said:

Sometimes i want to sell my S1H because of its AF that's not on par with the offeringd of the competition. But then I think about my needs and realize I don't shoot sports, i don't shoot fast action, i usually shoot interviews, corporate, docs, and i'd love to go more tow fictional kind of shoot (narrative). 

And i tell myself why would I need another camera for those controlled environments i'm shooting in? 

Panasonic bodies are so reliable, but hey they're not as trendy as all those cameras from Canon ans Sony that all the bloggers show. 

That's a shame. The AF is a lame excuse to me. I rather have a reliable camera, a workhorse with not so good continuous af than an unreliable camera with fast blazing af. 

I have great AF in the C200 but I almost never use it. I always feel like its going to miss the shot when it matters most.  For the locked off scenarios like you mentioned I just keep my aperture around 3.5 and stick to MF even with the C200.  I do truly wish I had AF for my gimbal work but I've gotten used to working with the GH5's limitations.

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Many years ago, when footballers were still earning only a bit more than the average working man, they used to have their wages further reduced in the summer period when no games were played.

One of the finest players of that era, Tom Finney, told a great story about his colleague Tommy Docherty trying to get a better pay deal for himself.

"Tommy came down from Celtic, and had a fairly good season with us. In those days we used to line up in the corridor before going in to the manager to find out our terms for the following year. I went in to see Bill Scott, the manager, and he said I'd be on the same terms as the year before, £12 a week during the season, and £10 a week in the summer, which was known as 12-and-10. Tommy went in after me, and was told he'd be on 12-and-eight. `I'm not signing,' he said. `I've just found out that Finney's on 12-and-10.' The manager couldn't believe it. `But Finney's a far better player than you,' he said. `Not in the bloody summer he's not,' Tommy said."

I've been reminded of that story again by numerous comments I've been reading about the S1-H and its AF system.

Yes, the R5 and A7Siii might have much better AF systems than the S1-H but not when the camera has overheated they haven't.

 

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3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Lame AF is showstopper for Alexa then too.

Andrew,...I can tell you that my Cannon insider had seen early test R5 units last year and knew that it was overheating back then. He told me about it in January. This issue was absolutely no surprise to everybody in Cannon that saw it early. This problem has been going on with the R5....from day ONE...right from the very engineering beginning. They KNEW it was this way. They did not want to "fix" it because they didnt think it was a problem that we would freak out about. In their minds, the R5 was acting exactly as they wanted it to. They just COMPLETELY  underestimated the amount of backlash it was going to cause.

Its not an engineering mistake, those guys built exactly what they were told to. Its a public relations mistake.

We were supposed to be "a little" upset...not raging pissed upset! LoL

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 “shoots alongside the c300 mkiii “  so, if you have a 300 mkiii why would you need an R5 ?

logicaly , it would be used for a few wide establishing shots and on a gimbal for a few . 
And, This sound s about well within the camera’s capabilities .

 If it overheats , you put it away and keep right on rolling with the old 300 mkiii.

i don’t see anything too damning in this .

So what’s the problem?

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26 minutes ago, Leica50mm said:

 “shoots alongside the c300 mkiii “  so, if you have a 300 mkiii why would you need an R5 ?

logicaly , it would be used for a few wide establishing shots and on a gimbal for a few . 
And, This sound s about well within the camera’s capabilities .

 If it overheats , you put it away and keep right on rolling with the old 300 mkiii.

i don’t see anything too damning in this .

So what’s the problem?

HUH?    CANON said it could be used as the LEAD camera and also it can COMFORTABLY be used on set, they did NOT say it MIGHT work or it might NOT.

Look, IF they can fix it, it will be superb for more than stills but as it is???

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1 hour ago, Leica50mm said:

 “shoots alongside the c300 mkiii “  so, if you have a 300 mkiii why would you need an R5 ?

logicaly , it would be used for a few wide establishing shots and on a gimbal for a few . 
And, This sound s about well within the camera’s capabilities .

 If it overheats , you put it away and keep right on rolling with the old 300 mkiii.

i don’t see anything too damning in this .

So what’s the problem?

$4K for a camera you have to put away instead of enjoy shooting with it?

Well I’ll be damned...

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1 hour ago, Leica50mm said:

 “shoots alongside the c300 mkiii “  so, if you have a 300 mkiii why would you need an R5 ?

logicaly , it would be used for a few wide establishing shots and on a gimbal for a few . 
And, This sound s about well within the camera’s capabilities .

 If it overheats , you put it away and keep right on rolling with the old 300 mkiii.

i don’t see anything too damning in this .

So what’s the problem?

A lot of people use a smaller mirrorless as a B camera when filming say an interview, working as a 2nd camera angle.  

I did a job recently where a GH5s was a B camera on a gimbal and were I using the R5 in 4k HQ mode, I'd have likely encountered overheating as the camera was on for over 30 mins shooting.

Seriously your post comes over as so naive.  Do you shoot much video, or is it just something you talk about on forums?

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