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Sony A7S III


Andrew Reid
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I thought if Netflix is making it or having it made for them, THEN you use from their approved list but if it is something you make/have made, if they like it, they will take it???

Mind you, I do not think i have ever watched Netflix at all (yeah, I am the one). 

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Cameras are such a small cost in the grand scheme of a production. The camera isn't gonna make the movie sell more and that's all people really care about. Like if you get approved to shoot a Netflix show, the camera you use will be the last thing on your mind. Unless you are an insane camera enthusiast like us on here.  🤣

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These recent camera releases have resulted in a significant amount of velocity  and trolling right across the web. 

Every camera is good these days. Every single one. Nor is a single one of them “underwhelming”, why has the bar suddenly been raised so high? Because Canon put 8k in a mirrorless? 

The S1H, the A7SIII, the R5, the X-T4 all have a purpose to fit your needs. If you can’t shoot good footage with them, the issue isn’t the camera. If one of these does n’t fit your needs, buy something else. 

I get excited about cameras, but they are just cameras. They are worthless without artists, documentary filmmakers, journalists, Youtubers.... the audience mostly doesn’t give a f**k what it was shot on - as long as it looks good, sounds good and provides value in form of information or entertainment. 

That time arguing over cameras could be better spent on learning more about lighting, composition, sound or editing styles. 

Sure, I did pre-order the R5 and cancelled it. Instead I’ve swapped it for 2 A7SIII’s because they fulfil a creative need. And it’s not the end of the world if it’s all just hype - the EVA1 and GH5 still exist and allow me to create on every shoot. 

For the argumentative, trolls and naysayers, it’s time to get romantic about the craft again. Show us your work. Make more stuff. Have some fun. Create memories. And grow the hell up. 

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58 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

These recent camera releases have resulted in a significant amount of velocity  and trolling right across the web. 

Every camera is good these days. Every single one. Nor is a single one of them “underwhelming”, why has the bar suddenly been raised so high? Because Canon put 8k in a mirrorless? 

The S1H, the A7SIII, the R5, the X-T4 all have a purpose to fit your needs. If you can’t shoot good footage with them, the issue isn’t the camera. If one of these does n’t fit your needs, buy something else. 

I get excited about cameras, but they are just cameras. They are worthless without artists, documentary filmmakers, journalists, Youtubers.... the audience mostly doesn’t give a f**k what it was shot on - as long as it looks good, sounds good and provides value in form of information or entertainment. 

That time arguing over cameras could be better spent on learning more about lighting, composition, sound or editing styles. 

Sure, I did pre-order the R5 and cancelled it. Instead I’ve swapped it for 2 A7SIII’s because they fulfil a creative need. And it’s not the end of the world if it’s all just hype - the EVA1 and GH5 still exist and allow me to create on every shoot. 

For the argumentative, trolls and naysayers, it’s time to get romantic about the craft again. Show us your work. Make more stuff. Have some fun. Create memories. And grow the hell up. 

What if the R5 did not overheat would you still go the A7S III route?

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1 hour ago, Oliver Daniel said:

These recent camera releases have resulted in a significant amount of velocity  and trolling right across the web. 

Every camera is good these days. Every single one. Nor is a single one of them “underwhelming”, why has the bar suddenly been raised so high? 

Brand preference plays a part.  However I feel expectations are raised not to excessive levels, but merely the hope that a hybrid camera could be released that wasn't flawed in a significant way. 

The S1H is a superb camera, undermined by poor AF, a complaint you couldn't make against the R5 and R6, which is undermined by overheating, something the S1H doesn't suffer from.  The A7sIII overheats also, and its photo function is limited to 12MP, which is a put off to some.  Plus its IBIS is inferior to Canon and probably Panasonic, and its colour science isn't to everyone's liking.

Somewhere between all these cameras is an excellent tool for all of us.  It is frustrating to see cameras so close to getting it right, yet due to the decisions made in the design, to miss the mark ever so slightly.

Can these cameras all be used.  Of course they can.  There are already videos shot by the R5 despite the overheating.  However any cameras shortcomings will be a deterant to some, who had hoped to add that camera to their equipment.  Dissapointment drives some complaints here and sounding off on forums like these doesn't mean we are not going out and filming, or learning new things.  Gear discussion is always going to be a part of our craft.  They maybe just tools, but the specs of those tools will either aid or hinder our work.  

My Pocket 4K would be much more useful with a great AF, a screen I could see outside and better battery life.  How is that not important to my shooting.  Discussions about these limits not only inform new buyers but also can lead to workarounds.  Even if there is ultimately a lot of nonsense posts in between.

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42 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

What if the R5 did not overheat would you still go the A7S III route?

I would rent them both and see what works for me. That’s exactly what I’m going to do, even though I’m don’t have much confidence in the R5 in the higher quality modes. I’ll allow my A7S III pre-order to hold until I’ve tried it. If I’m unsatisfied, oh well. Still got cameras I can use. 

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24 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Brand preference plays a part.  However I feel expectations are raised not to excessive levels, but merely the hope that a hybrid camera could be released that wasn't flawed in a significant way. 

The S1H is a superb camera, undermined by poor AF, a complaint you couldn't make against the R5 and R6, which is undermined by overheating, something the S1H doesn't suffer from.  The A7sIII overheats also, and its photo function is limited to 12MP, which is a put off to some.  Plus its IBIS is inferior to Canon and probably Panasonic, and its colour science isn't to everyone's liking.

Somewhere between all these cameras is an excellent tool for all of us.  It is frustrating to see cameras so close to getting it right, yet due to the decisions made in the design, to miss the mark ever so slightly.

Can these cameras all be used.  Of course they can.  There are already videos shot by the R5 despite the overheating.  However any cameras shortcomings will be a deterant to some, who had hoped to add that camera to their equipment.  Dissapointment drives some complaints here and sounding off on forums like these doesn't mean we are not going out and filming, or learning new things.  Gear discussion is always going to be a part of our craft.  They maybe just tools, but the specs of those tools will either aid or hinder our work.  

My Pocket 4K would be much more useful with a great AF, a screen I could see outside and better battery life.  How is that not important to my shooting.  Discussions about these limits not only inform new buyers but also can lead to workarounds.  Even if there is ultimately a lot of nonsense posts in between.

Your comments I completely agree with. Healthy discussion around cameras is only part of the process. 

There are segments of people who take these discussions off the rails, as if the R5 overheating has ruined their life. I was disappointed as it’s features fulfil a creative need, and likewise I sold my FS5 2 years back as I was spending too much time “fixing” the colour - so I got the EVA1. 

I’m doing lot of fast paced sports and fashion stuff right now, as well as music videos. I want to do certain shots on a gimbal and as I’m operating solo, what I want is insanely hard to pull off with MF. Plus I’m finding the 2k100fps on the EVA1 little too soft. 

Likewise, I won’t use the DSMC2 RED form factor as it’s a pain, or the Ursa Mini Pro as it’s too heavy for handheld without an Easyrig - even though I adore the image capabilities more than anything else out there. 

So yes, it does matter. But I’m not losing sleep or being toxic about cameras that don’t do what I want when there’s so much more to prioritise. 

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No camera is perfect. We all have different needs.

S1H is Netflix approved as it is one of the only large sensor hybrids that check marks their capture requirements ie. Timecode, high bitrate 10-bit 4:2:2 Log, DCI 4K, Anamorphic support. Of course the fact it has an active cooling system and won't overheat doesn't hurt. Narrative work rarely requires AF lenses so AF simply isn't an issue. It also has all the cine cam features like LUT assist, vector scopes etc.

But for hybrid shooters, solo video shooters, vloggers, youtubers etc. AutoFocus is crucial, especially in FF which rules out the Pannys.

R5 vs A7S3. Tough call. On paper, R5 should destroy A7S3. It has 45MP, 8K, DCI 4K, Better IBIS, better ergonomics, internal RAW.

..but in the real world, all that means nothing if your camera can't operate because it overheated.

so by default, it would seem A7S3 wins. However if you're an outdoor shooter in warm weather, A7S3 may overheat even faster than R5. 

and when A7S3 overheats, it completely shuts off while it appears R5 allows you to switch to pixel-binned 4K.. but HQ recovery times are long.

A7S3 does appear to be the safer bet if you're hard pressed for an upgrade. But if you already have an A73, is 12MP non-oversampled 4K really worth the 4200€ investment? Maybe for the HFR & 10-bit. I'll let you be the judge. Personally I'm not rushing in to buy either, hate being a beta-tester to first gen e-products.

 

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2 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

What if the R5 did not overheat would you still go the A7S III route?

Not asked of me I know, but if it was not for the overheating controversy (and whether that would even be an issue for my own hybrid needs I don’t know at this time), it would be my first choice right now.

A pair of them matched to the RF 28-70 f2 and 85mm f2 and I’d be set and never need to change a lens or use a monopod as I do now.

That 28-70 is a beast...but it’s a featherweight compared to my current combo of; Sigma 18-35, Fringer Pro, Anker powerbank and monopod (with XT3). Replace all 4 of those items with the 28-70 f2 would be a dream.

And that is my consideration, - the sum of the whole kit and not just the camera body.

The Sony looks good as a pure video tool, but has 3 strikes against it for me; colour, IBIS, 12mp. Could I live with it? Maybe, but only if it was the best option out there and for me it isn’t.

My hope is they either sort the Canon or at the very least it turns out to be OK for my needs.

The XH2 will need to have zero compromises to beat a sorted version of this Canon. And I’m a Fuji fan.

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Bmpcc 6k is the best bang for your buck. Cinematography is an art. The Blackmagic makes the most beautiful image and gives life and art to the image. If I were a painter, the 6k would be the brightest colour on my palette. The others are garish and utilitarian. 

Ibis, autofocus should not be considerations unless you have a job to do. But they have nothing to do with the art of cinematography, which has never needed these things and which is detrimental in most cases. 

So it is illogical for two people to argue over which camera is better when their objectives are different. 

A painter will go through the most trouble to get a unique and beautiful image. He will not pick a tool which allows him to make a pretty picture with the least effort but one that looks identical to others. 

If your aspirations are high then that is what you should aim for. If not then that is fine too but let us not delude ourselves.

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Not sure if this video was posted, scrolling through the last few pages its mostly S1h/Netflix arguments that don't seem to relate to the Sony at all. As to the a7s3, if you need reliable AF, cameras like the Zcams, the Blackmagic's and likely the S1h are not something people are considering, its a completely different type of camera and shooting experience. Nothing is ever going to change that until they have reliable AF. I need AF for my work, none of those will ever be a part of my kit, and I'm obviously not alone. The excitement over this and the R5/6 is because you're combining great IQ with great AF with bitrates that many Sony shooters have wanted for years. Continually injecting cameras like Blackmagic's or Netflix approval into the discussion is just noise. Nobody is buying the a7s3 or a Pocket 4k for that matter to shoot the next season of Ozark. 

You're buying this over other options if you're already invested in the E-mount ecosystem and want the best video option without having to lug around one of the larger FS/FX cameras - or if you want reliable AF for your work.

Bonus the E-mount has the widest selection of native AF lenses that's more comprehensive than all other FF options combined. And with all the 3rd party support combining MF and AF lenses from Zeiss/Tamron/Sigma/Voigtlander/Samyang and others, that gap will keep getting wider. Second bonus if you shoot stills, the E-mount has you covered with a some of the best photo options money can buy.

I put this on my 65" TV, this guy put it through its paces and shot tons of 120p, no surprise since its one of the standout features. Just wish the poster had enabled captions - even YT's sometimes weird autocaption - so we can get a partial translation. But this looks like a proper review.

Chris

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

Not sure if this video was posted, scrolling through the last few pages its mostly S1h/Netflix arguments that don't seem to relate to the Sony at all. As to the a7s3, if you need reliable AF, cameras like the Zcams, the Blackmagic's and likely the S1h are not something people are considering, its a completely different type of camera and shooting experience. Nothing is ever going to change that until they have reliable AF. I need AF for my work, none of those will ever be a part of my kit, and I'm obviously not alone. The excitement over this and the R5/6 is because you're combining great IQ with great AF with bitrates that many Sony shooters have wanted for years. Continually injecting cameras like Blackmagic's or Netflix approval into the discussion is just noise. Nobody is buying the a7s3 or a Pocket 4k for that matter to shoot the next season of Ozark. 

Fair and correct enough, but I'd say that "problem" arises because of nowaday existence of many more real world variables that have to be accounted. In today highly mobile market, someone who today is mostly say wedding shooter, tomorrow has to adapt and become stock footage shooter, vloger becomes more artistic music videographer or slower shooter of nature or narrative documentary, or even short film story teller... Besides, for examples Sony lenses were by far the most expensive (before new wave of Canon's and Nikon's), and as whole A7S III, complete with native lenses, indeed approach to price of, say, newest Red Komodo, not to say of C 200 II or C300 with great EF lenses... and "impression" to client is undoubtedly important factor for getting a job.

Shortly, IMO it is quite common-sense-expecting that buyers will comparing, weighting and re-thinking different possibilities, specs and virtues when prices are becoming so close to each other and earning opportunities are starting to become more uncertain and changeable regarding main focus.

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59 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

 I need AF for my work, none of those will ever be a part of my kit, and I'm obviously not alone.

Must have been tough for you 7 years ago lol. 

The other cameras aren't for you then. You need a camera that does a job. That's fine too. Im sure the sony will be great for that. Just let's not delude ourselves here into thinking the sony creates anything but a generic and boring image that will be seen all over youtube. That is fine for most who do not care about cinematography or art. Sharp 120p is more important for your purposes. 

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56 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

As to the a7s3, if you need reliable AF, cameras like the Zcams, the Blackmagic's and likely the S1h are not something people are considering, its a completely different type of camera and shooting experience. 

 

The S1H is hardly a completely different camera and experience to the A7sIII and R5.  Its still another hybrid, with admittedly poorer AF than the competition; but still comparable.  We all have different needs and requirements.  Mine is long form recording, making the R5 less desirable to me as the S1H is less for you due to your own needs.  If you're a hybrid shooter that needs higher pixel count for photos than 12MP, you won't be looking at the A7sIII.  Comparing these cameras is only natural as features on one will be desired in the other.  

I agree the Netflix talk was totally irrelevant to this particular discussion.  

 

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8 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

The S1H is hardly a completely different camera and experience to the A7sIII and R5.  Its still another hybrid, with admittedly poorer AF than the competition; but still comparable.  We all have different needs and requirements.  Mine is long form recording, making the R5 less desirable to me as the S1H is less for you due to your own needs.  If you're a hybrid shooter that needs higher pixel count for photos than 12MP, you won't be looking at the A7sIII.  Comparing these cameras is only natural as features on one will be desired in the other.  

I agree the Netflix talk was totally irrelevant to this particular discussion.  

 

How is the AF with canon EF lenses on the S1H? As for video AF is overrated, but for photography it is kinda important. 

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3 hours ago, Yurolov said:

Bmpcc 6k is the best bang for your buck. Cinematography is an art. The Blackmagic makes the most beautiful image and gives life and art to the image. If I were a painter, the 6k would be the brightest colour on my palette. The others are garish and utilitarian. 

Ibis, autofocus should not be considerations unless you have a job to do. But they have nothing to do with the art of cinematography, which has never needed these things and which is detrimental in most cases. 

So it is illogical for two people to argue over which camera is better when their objectives are different. 

A painter will go through the most trouble to get a unique and beautiful image. He will not pick a tool which allows him to make a pretty picture with the least effort but one that looks identical to others. 

If your aspirations are high then that is what you should aim for. If not then that is fine too but let us not delude ourselves.

Absolutely.

You know why I put the R5 on the table?

8K > 6K -> large format for hybrid use

4K 120fps

IBIS

AF

Because art is also opportunity and the right tool is the one you can have with you and use it. If for some reason, you won't be able to get that shot just fine, goes right away to the basket.

E : -)

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2 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Not sure if this video was posted, scrolling through the last few pages its mostly S1h/Netflix arguments that don't seem to relate to the Sony at all. As to the a7s3, if you need reliable AF, cameras like the Zcams, the Blackmagic's and likely the S1h are not something people are considering, its a completely different type of camera and shooting experience. Nothing is ever going to change that until they have reliable AF. I need AF for my work, none of those will ever be a part of my kit, and I'm obviously not alone. The excitement over this and the R5/6 is because you're combining great IQ with great AF with bitrates that many Sony shooters have wanted for years. Continually injecting cameras like Blackmagic's or Netflix approval into the discussion is just noise. Nobody is buying the a7s3 or a Pocket 4k for that matter to shoot the next season of Ozark. 

You're buying this over other options if you're already invested in the E-mount ecosystem and want the best video option without having to lug around one of the larger FS/FX cameras - or if you want reliable AF for your work.

Bonus the E-mount has the widest selection of native AF lenses that's more comprehensive than all other FF options combined. And with all the 3rd party support combining MF and AF lenses from Zeiss/Tamron/Sigma/Voigtlander/Samyang and others, that gap will keep getting wider. Second bonus if you shoot stills, the E-mount has you covered with a some of the best photo options money can buy.

I put this on my 65" TV, this guy put it through its paces and shot tons of 120p, no surprise since its one of the standout features. Just wish the poster had enabled captions - even YT's sometimes weird autocaption - so we can get a partial translation. But this looks like a proper review.

Chris

 

 

Holy smokes, practically all of the sample footage in that video is stellar. Really hope a translation comes out for this review soon, as I'd love to hear this guy's thoughts in detail on the camera. 

Also, your argument about the advantages Sony has over the competition right now are, for better or worse, spot on. They're just flat-out further along than everyone else in the field when it comes to having an ecosystem of full frame mirrorless cameras and lenses to work with. Not to decry the value of other cameras (the RAW footage of the Sigma fp is genuinely beautiful, and if you're A-okay with APS-C/Super35 only then Fuji is a dream), but unless Panasonic hits the ball out of the stadium soon with vastly improved autofocus on its next generation of L-mount cameras, Sony is likely only going to continue dominating the market for full frame mirrorless.

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2 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Nobody is buying the a7s3 or a Pocket 4k for that matter to shoot the next season of Ozark. 

 

Right because they can't use the A7S3 or Pocket4K to shoot Ozark because they're not Netflix approved.  

If your work will never be considered for Netflix then invest in the A7S3 or Pocket4K all day.  

 

Quote

As to the a7s3, if you need reliable AF, cameras like the Zcams, the Blackmagic's and likely the S1h are not something people are considering, its a completely different type of camera and shooting experience. Nothing is ever going to change that until they have reliable AF. 

The S1H is relevant.  I have issues with the AF on the S1H but my guess is it's not as bad as people make it out to be.  I need to rent the camera and find out for myself.

In that Sony footage I'm seeing pink faces in some scenes and Florida tan faces in other scenes with the same people.

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1 hour ago, Yurolov said:

Must have been tough for you 7 years ago lol. 

The other cameras aren't for you then. You need a camera that does a job. That's fine too. Im sure the sony will be great for that. Just let's not delude ourselves here into thinking the sony creates anything but a generic and boring image that will be seen all over youtube. That is fine for most who do not care about cinematography or art. Sharp 120p is more important for your purposes. 

I had better eyesight 7 years ago, and since I first bought the 5d2 back in 2008 I've been able to use AF to at least set initial focus. Its the way I've always worked, going back to my first job using a Sony 1080i HDV Z1u 'Push Auto' focus function. So I got by, but life is a lot easier now and I'm able to create content in a very efficient manner with spot on focus. Its the best of both worlds for a solo run-and-gun shooter. Canon, Sony and now Red are putting real AF in cine cams and plenty use hybrids to shoot video - so there's obviously a demand beyond my poor vision.

Your condescending gerneric/boring images and cinematography/art comments are absolute BS, just like the holier-than-thou "pros only use MF" comments that always pop up. Its your opinion so you're free to express it. But its bullshit.

Cheers

Chris

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