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Andrew Reid

Fuji should make a $2000 full frame cam

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If Fuji and Olympus full frame cameras were on the market and Samsung back in the game, imagine how much fun that would be.

X-T4 is going to be great, I'm sure - like an X-H2 for video, but Fuji are missing a trick.

What if they designed an X-mount Full frame cam keeping same mount (like E-mount & Sony), then we could use our APS-C Fuji lenses in crop mode and GFX lenses in full frame mode, along with adapters for everything else. Fuji could give us a few full frame X mount lenses to start with and grow it over time. Sony didn't really take off until A7 came out. I feel if Sony had focussed on APS-C and medium format, they'd be a big hole in their sales.

At first GFX looked like a great niche, a really smart move to avoid the overcrowded full frame market everyone was jumping into at once.

It remains a great niche.

I just can't see it becoming mainstream.

35mm is where it's at.

It's really interesting to try full frame lenses on a GFX 100, a lot do cover but the corners and vignetting are quite pushed to limits.

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X-mount being 44mm in diameter (vs. 46mm E-mount), it would be cost-prohibitive, if not impossible to put an FF sensor AND design FF lenses for it.

It would also be unrealistic to adapt 65mm diameter G-mount to X-mount, and a huge waste of optical performance from GFX lenses.

Just use GFX cameras with its "35mm format mode". I'd rather Fujifilm focus its limited resources on its APS-C and MF line-up.

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59 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

What if they designed an X-mount Full frame cam keeping same mount (like E-mount & Sony), then we could use our APS-C Fuji lenses in crop mode and GFX lenses in full frame mode, along with adapters for everything else. Fuji could give us a few full frame X mount lenses to start with and grow it over time.

17.7mm vs 26.7 mm , an adapter should be doable! Would be a tighter fit though for the electronics. 
However people who buy GFX lenses (they're very expensive) is an extremely small niche of buyers, an adapter wouldn't sell many at all. 

And I doubt a Fujifilm FF camera should be made, as Fuji would just run into the same problems Sony did. (if not even worse, for Fuji)

As Sony never started out with planning to make a FF mirrorless camera, thus when they decided to later on they had to face the decision of:
1) ditching E Mount and creating a new mount, like Canon has done with EOS-M (then making RF Mount instead)
2) squeezing in a shoehorned FF sensor into a mount intended for APS-C, with all those compromises that mean (such as Sony's IBIS never being as good as the competition)

I personally think Fuji has been very smart here. They realize they're too small to compete head to head against the big guns of Canon/Nikon/Sony FF.

Instead they've got the double headed strategy of:

1) embrace the essence of the purpose of mirrorless, high quality but very compact camera packages. A Sony FF kit will never be quite as compact as a Fuji APS-C kit (Olympus is taking a similar strategy here, but leaning the quality/compact balance further towards the compact side). This allows Fuji to sidestep competing directly against Canon/Nikon/Sony, and Fuji can instead play to their own strengths.

2) bring out mirrorless medium format cameras positioned above FF cameras. As Fuji is gaining the first mover advantage in the medium format mirrorless market, and in the long run sensors will become cheaper and cheaper. Eventually medium format will become "affordable" for even the average joe, just like has happened with FF cameras. Today an entry level FF camera is one anybody could buy, FF is no longer super expensive like it was back at launch. (imagine a world where a Medium Format camera only costs a few hundred bucks more than a Full Frame camera??) 


It's a nifty business strategy, sidestep the white hot intense competition in FF bodies, and instead bring out the very best there is one stop above and one stop below FF. (which also handily positions Fuji's own products two stops apart, which is a good distance to space them apart. Prevents their own products being so directly in competition with each other as they're spaced far apart. Interestly, Panasonic has a similar strategy wih a gap apart of two stops as well with their cameras: but MFT vs FF, instead of APS-C vs Medium Format)

Is a bold strategy which is a bet on the future that Fuji (and Panasonic) are making:

They're betting that with time the performance of their smaller sensors will become so good, many people will happily compromise in exchange for having a small compact kit. 

They're also betting (this was a much eaiser bet for Panasonic to make, than for Fuji. Except that Panasonic is fighting in a tougher market niche... against Sony/Canon/Nikon) that the prices on their large sensors will come down in price far enough that they can become relatively mass market products and not just a small small niche. 

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Actually Fuji already has 2 ILC mounts, and they creating a 3rd one, or even if it uses one of the existing ones, for a new sensor size, doesn't make much sense. Plus the XT3 does over 75% of what many full frames do, and many things that many full frames probably don't. With IBIS and slight tweaking of the sensor and/or processing, the XT4 could be a good replacement for a full frame, with a smaller size and better pricing. 

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With 44 x 33 mm sensor size, Fuji's GFX "medium format" is, in reality, more a plus-size full frame 35mm (36x24mm) format than what is known as medium format in film photography  (60x90mm, 60x70mm, 60x45mm - i.e. twice to four times the sensor size of GFX).

So arguably, they already have full frame, but only smartly market it as medium format. 

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5 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

They would just be stretching themselves thin at that point. Also I think if they can keep driving the price of their MF bodies down I think they could dominate.

Who here would buy a Fujifilm GFX 50R if it was half the price and had 4K 10bit in it? Instead of a Sony/Canon/etc FF Mirrorless for the same mid two thousands price. 

That hasn't happened yet, but it will happen this decade for certain. As sensor costs continue to fall. 

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1 hour ago, BrooklynDan said:

I'd prefer if they released a dedicated cinema camera instead. It's easy to forget that Fuji has over a half century of experience making motion picture stocks. They were Kodak's main competition. Their Vivida daylight stocks were gorgeous. Deep rich colors and solid velvety blacks with warm lovely skin tones. Sadly, they no longer produce film stock, but bringing that look and feel to a digital cinema camera would be an amazing coda to that legacy. 

I also think that Fuji's ergonomic sense work translate very well to a video camera. They have a charming analog feel to all their cameras, which is something that is sorely missing from most low cost video cameras today.


Bingo! A Fuji Cinema Camera would have none of the downside risks that a FF camera would have, while playing to Fuji's strengths and existing product range / customer base. 

Take the X-T3 internals, boost it up to make it be 4K 60fps 422 10bit internal, with built in NDs, and a couple of XLR inputs, and a TC & SDI I/O, plus just in general a smartly designed body like a FS5 or EVA1, then Fuji has a winner on their hands so long as they keep its final price below the competition!

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Yes, agreed that Fuji should fully embrace their APS-C/Super35 sensor size and go all in on the things that are harder for full-frame to do: make affordable cinema and video cameras that are compact and travel well that are packed full of features 2-3 years before they make it into full-frame cameras. The GH5 did this 2-3 years before the S1H came out. Still nobody has topped it for 10-bit 422 internal 4K outside of Panasonic itself and the $6500 1DX III. 

I LOVE the Super35 sensor size as long as there are lenses that are made specifically for it. Fuji has tons of those.  The Canon EF mount is frustrating because if you want a stabilized 24-70mm f2.8 for doc work, the only lens that is close is their 17-55mm and it vignettes in DCI 4k and 2k. Sony has some, but underwhelming in general.

Definitely think Fuji needs to get into the video game big time in some way. Why not a Canon XC-15-esque model with 2 mini-xlrs and inernal NDs and an X-Mount? Or a Fuji X-H2 that has all the features of the S1H but with great AF and internal NDs? And then an FS5-like video camera for doc-oriented projects with IBIS and 12-bit codecs.

They definitely have an opportunity to continue to do what they are doing and offer something different, rather than just go full-frame like everyone else. 

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32 minutes ago, Mako Sports said:

If Fuji made a dedicated cinema camera with a large format sensor and the GFX mount totally by passing mid tier S35 and FF cine cameras would be insane. 

That's a good idea as well. I like Fuji continuing to offering something different than the competition in those two fields, and video is one of the best ways to differentiate itself.

Super35/APS-C: Packed full of features, high frame rates, IBIS, great AF, etc

Fuji Cine LF: Medium format sensor for dreamy cinema. Basically the GFX100 specs in a compact (FS5-ish) cinema body. Or a EZ-Cam/Red Komodo like box.

That'd be sweet. 

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3 hours ago, ade towell said:

make the screen flippable and cut the 30 minute limit too please

Yeah, Fujifilm lacks a great vlogging camera. Just give us both a screen that you can see *and* a mic input at the same time. (bonus of course if it has IBIS and great AF! Dumb things like only 8bit and 15 minute limits won't even matter if it has everything else I just mentioned)

As much as we might look down on vloggers, they do have a huge huge influence on future sales. (and those baby vloggers do later on grow up and buy a "real camera" for "real work", and who will they choose? The company they learned on, let's hope that is Fuji!)

 

8 hours ago, Amazeballs said:

I also like the idea of Fuji cinema camera. But S35 one with X-mount. 

Exactly what I've been saying! S35 X Mount cinema camera.

 

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Fuji with it's X-mount (<18mm flange) is in prime position to create that "use any lens you want" camera with X adapter... 

A LF (43.8 mm x 32.9 mm) Cinema camera would probably make more sense though in that market space. But I think it would absolutely require RAW or REDcode license to be successful.

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A medium format video camera from Fuji would shut the game down. Even though, it would be a pretty impractical format with limited lens choice compared to Super 35 or full frame, cinematographers think with their hearts as well as their brains, and getting the opportunity to shoot on a nearly IMAX-sized sensor would override a lot of other considerations.

Do it, Fuji. DO IT.

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