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Emanuel

X-T3 or Pocket 4K?

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I've seen the 1st footage... You all too, I presume, for sure.

Maybe yet too early for evaluation, my first impression though is Fujifilm beats the new Blackmagic to infer from the institutional imagerie released so far at least. I'd dare to add.

Or only random option of (circumstantial) grading from less fortunate choices by Blackmagic brand to promote their own product?

 

I don't even mention in features, despite the more versatile choice of glass on MFT side, when not the ludicrous cheap C-mount to couple, or the hybrid advantage versus CC on the other side...

...just the IQ outcome coming from there!

 

DSLR now mirrorless movement revenge?

 

Tasty when not already SOC versus Thin, which means more prone to aliasing issues (no OLPF on both but one gets more than the other as seems), lovely but a bit predictable, not so creamy flexible range like half stop larger APS-C format.

 

We all know the superior codec offer, let alone the BRAW to upcome from Blackmagic, horses for courses and all that yadda yadda but what about the pudding?

 

What are your thoughts?

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

For me and my use the XT3 blows the Pocket: 

- Great 10 bit codec yet not too heavy. RAW is a PITA. 
- APSC sensor 
- video AF: this alone would make me choose the XT3 vs the Pocket even if the pocket was $200
- lighter and smaller 

Back in the days the GH5 was an option as it was the only decently hybrid specced camera for video. Today's we have good FF and APSC specs equivalent or better than GH5. So WHY on earth would I ever buy a M43 tiny sensor again? 0 reason. APSC is the new M43, FF is the real deal and a few years from now MF will probably be. 

As for portability arguments, the only thing standing for M43, well it does not work with the pocket considering its size. And with the GH5 neither cause the XT3 is better and as portable so this argument is dead. In fact I believe M43 is absolutely dead. People still believing in M43 are the same people who believed in Sony A-Mount being not dead the last 5 years, with Sony keep repeating they are fully committed to it (LOL). 

0 reason to use a tiny sensor if it is not more portable. RX100 with 1" sensor is so portable it actually is great and make sense. 
GH5, Pocket 4K, all M43 cameras bigger than XT3 are dead. 
When the XH2 is here with IBIS and even better spec and ergonomic, I know of no camera in the world below $6K and below FF that will touch it. Then A7S III and Pana S1 as well as future FF will blow anything in the FF territory. 

Anyone buying a GH5 vs a XT3 is out of his mind. The pocket has RAW so that's one thing but if you need real RAW stuff for business and work with big equipment just get a proper camera and if it's too expensive change your job.
Seriously, who is gonna spend $2000 in a GH5 now? 

 

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22 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

Seriously, who is gonna spend $2000 in a GH5 now? 

https://www.43rumors.com/save-230-on-the-panasonic-refurbished-gh5/

 

Well refurbished / secondhand they seem to often go for sub US$1.5K ish??


And GH5 still has features which are better than the X-T3, such as waveform monitor, full size HDMI, anamorphic, etc

Yes, the GH5 is showing its "age" now (only a few months away from 3yrs since it was announced), but it can still hold is own as a competitive all round option to choose. (especially if you already have a collection of MFT lenses/adapters, like myself and many others would)

Having said that, I likely won't buy a GH5 any time in the next year, but hoping to get a Panasonic G85. But in no rush, I can keep on waiting for their price to slide on down. Hoping for the next low end G series to come out soon (as two of them got released between the GH4 and GH5, but none since the GH5!). Which will then push down the G85 price a lot on eBay

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Interesting points indeed, even though I don't think MFT is useless at all.

On the contrary, it can end much helpful on lightweight side (not the Pocket 4K case anyways, no matter the reasons behind that overheating free route) and versatile choice of glass.

Your mastery can actually shine even more in a world of automated procedures, including of this craft where I see both of them as an added value though, not the opposite.

There's always the possibility of upgrade for something between APS-C and FF much larger going on then, with a focal reducer and that marvelous 18-35mm f/1.8 piece, as for instance ; ) which testifies on the other hand the premise: the larger the more fun we are eager to arrive sooner or later ; -)

However, one of the cinema mounts closer to old film format(s) albeit no less than the '35mm' APS-C, but where we can still find no-brainer bargain offers from one side to rather cheap purchases on ebay, as C-mount end is.

(and I hadn't read your post yet, David, both practically entering at same time when I was basically writing something to refer the same supply plataform)

: -D

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I just bought the XT3. The reason I went with it over black magic is due to auto focus and 120fps. Yes the Black magic has 120fps but its very cropped. 2.8 vs 1.9 on the Fuji. 

I personally don't think M43 is dead as long as they can put out cameras with good specs. If Panasonic releases something that is putting out higher frame rates, better stabilization, better IQ, it'll have people buying it. 

I really like the XT3, but I do miss the GH5 IBIS, the XH1 IBIS can't hold a candle to it. Maybe the XH2 will be better.

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Well I think it is more of a what your needs are for speed. Do you Need something that you can get out the door in 2 hours, or do you want the very best you can do for the money at a much slower result. This still ends up being a CIne camera versus a Mirrorless even though the PK4 is a Mirrorless. They are totally different animals.

I think you are going to see a lot of the same looking stuff somewhat Easily shot on the X-T3, and some pretty crappy stuff shot on the PK4 due to the fact it is going to take skill to get something good out of it, let alone great. And the two of them will be impossible to match output wise if a person decided to buy both. Sure the X-T3 is  more overall versatile than the PK4. So for normal stuff the Fuji wins, heck so does all the other mirrorless cameras.  But for the ultimate quality it has to go to the PK4. No winner I guess, just different machines. It would be nice to have both.

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Out of likes now, guys, thanks for your contribution anyway. Hey Don, I put my 'Horses for Courses' disclaimer up there : D In any case, my ultimate choices nowadays ; ) are P4K and X-H2 for IBIS add-on : D I'd buy the X-T3 instead if I would only have one camera choice today : -)

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1 minute ago, Emanuel said:

Out of likes now, guys, thanks for your contribution anyway. Hey Don, I put my 'Horses for Courses' disclaimer there : D In any case, my ultimate choices nowadays ; ) are P4K and X-H2 for IBIS add-on : D I'd buy the X-T3 instead if I would only have one camera choice today : -)

Oh heck yes I would go with the Fuji also if one choice. All it has to offer is too hard to turn down. If it had IBIS they couldn't make enough of them LoL.

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I bought the XT-3 recently and then today randomly found a pocket 4k in stock, so I said why not try em both! The XT-3 is my photography camera as well, so its here to stay. The pocket 4k is in a weird spot. I have been eyeing it since April and the initial footage didn't impress me, but in the last week or so there has been some better footage.  I am going to test out the pocket 4k and see if it has a place in my setup as well. I do like the idea of a separate camera for just video, that I can keep in cage, partially rigged up, etc.

Financially speaking, I am invested in Fuji for the future, which feels good, because I really like what they are doing and I like their future. I plan on testing both cameras this weekend, grading them, trying similar shots to see how they look, see how they both handle, etc. and then make my decision if I will even bother keeping the pocket 4k. Everything for the pocket 4k is returnable, including the lenses (bought from amazon today) so it will be a simple few clicks of a button to go back to only Fuji.

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50 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

do you want the very best you can do for the money at a much slower result. This still ends up being a CIne camera 

But for the ultimate quality it has to go to the PK4. 

If I want to put a lot of time as you say and have the very best quality this means video is my main business in this case I justify a proper $10K camera, with a decent sensor. 
 

 

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12 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

If I want to put a lot of time as you say and have the very best quality this means video is my main business in this case I justify a proper $10K camera, with a decent sensor. 
 

 

Hard to beat though with this disruptive actual price range now for 4K RAW.

BMD is rocking for such department matter : )

They are now who RED promised to be a decade ago : -)

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10 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

If I want to put a lot of time as you say and have the very best quality this means video is my main business in this case I justify a proper $10K camera, with a decent sensor. 
 

 

Oh no doubt on the handling side you can do a Lot better. But 10,000 bucks is a hell of a long haul from 1000 bucks. And I doubt not many of those even in that price range will beat the ultimate output this thing has. Hell there aren't many that have even beat the original BMPCC at any cost. Raw is a great equalizer.

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3 hours ago, wolf33d said:

For me and my use the XT3 blows the Pocket: 

- Great 10 bit codec yet not too heavy. RAW is a PITA. 
- APSC sensor 
- video AF: this alone would make me choose the XT3 vs the Pocket even if the pocket was $200
- lighter and smaller 

Back in the days the GH5 was an option as it was the only decently hybrid specced camera for video. Today's we have good FF and APSC specs equivalent or better than GH5. So WHY on earth would I ever buy a M43 tiny sensor again? 0 reason. APSC is the new M43, FF is the real deal and a few years from now MF will probably be. 

As for portability arguments, the only thing standing for M43, well it does not work with the pocket considering its size. And with the GH5 neither cause the XT3 is better and as portable so this argument is dead. In fact I believe M43 is absolutely dead. People still believing in M43 are the same people who believed in Sony A-Mount being not dead the last 5 years, with Sony keep repeating they are fully committed to it (LOL). 

0 reason to use a tiny sensor if it is not more portable. RX100 with 1" sensor is so portable it actually is great and make sense. 
GH5, Pocket 4K, all M43 cameras bigger than XT3 are dead. 
When the XH2 is here with IBIS and even better spec and ergonomic, I know of no camera in the world below $6K and below FF that will touch it. Then A7S III and Pana S1 as well as future FF will blow anything in the FF territory. 

Anyone buying a GH5 vs a XT3 is out of his mind. The pocket has RAW so that's one thing but if you need real RAW stuff for business and work with big equipment just get a proper camera and if it's too expensive change your job.
Seriously, who is gonna spend $2000 in a GH5 now? 

 

Uh, so much reminding of death must be sign of something significant... But, yes, unfortunately - it has to be that for all of us death is the only one really absolute truth.

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Late to the party here...

the X-T3 has a 1.9X crop in 120p???

crap... just when I thought i was going to switch from Sony to Fuji.

Is Sony the only player who does 120p with autofocus and minnimal / no crop???

4 hours ago, wolf33d said:

Seriously, who is gonna spend $2000 in a GH5 now? 

Well...

It is still tempting to me, in a way, although the X-T3 is a lot more tempting.

IBIS, waveforms, vectorscope, zebras that go past 100 (I think), flip-out screen, timecode, xlr inputs ability... can't remember... does the GH5 have false color? Does it have a full size hdmi out?

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5 hours ago, wolf33d said:


Back in the days the GH5 was an option as it was the only decently hybrid specced camera for video. Today's we have good FF and APSC specs equivalent or better than GH5. So WHY on earth would I ever buy a M43 tiny sensor again? 0 reason. 
As for portability arguments, the only thing standing for M43, well it does not work with the pocket considering its size. And with the GH5 neither cause the XT3 is better and as portable so this argument is dead. In fact I believe M43 is absolutely dead. People still believing in M43 are the same people who believed in Sony A-Mount being not dead the last 5 years, with Sony keep repeating they are fully committed to it (LOL). 

0 reason to use a tiny sensor if it is not more portable. RX100 with 1" sensor is so portable it actually is great and make sense. 
GH5, Pocket 4K, all M43 cameras bigger than XT3 are dead. 
When the XH2 is here with IBIS and even better spec and ergonomic, I know of no camera in the world below $6K and below FF that will touch it. Then A7S III and Pana S1 as well as future FF will blow anything in the FF territory. 

Anyone buying a GH5 vs a XT3 is out of his mind. The pocket has RAW so that's one thing but if you need real RAW stuff for business and work with big equipment just get a proper camera and if it's too expensive change your job.
Seriously, who is gonna spend $2000 in a GH5 now? 

 

Can't agree with you. The GH5 is the only 'photo' camera, mirrorless or otherwise, that can be used almost as if it were a real video camera. It's the versatility and reliability of the GH5 which makes it shine. I have shot whole day conferences on a a pair of GH5 camera. We are talking 2 cameras running 1 and half to 2 hours non-stop filming 4K, one with the sound from the sound desk running into the XLR unit, all on dual card slots. A quick change of cards between speakers or at breaks and it'll do another 2 hours with no complaints. No other "photo" camera can do that. I even use a GX85 as a B or C cam in wedding ceremonies. 40 mins of 4K non-stop, no over heating, lightweight, cheap...so flexible. I can stick on a Voigtlander and get more 'cinematic' shots, shot in 10 bit if I need it, 4K 50p, slomo...I can even take decent photos (I'm video centric)! It's not perfect but it offers a better overall package than almost any other camera on the market at present.

I do agree that with the latest releases from it's competitors being competitively priced it is slightly expensive. I think a new GH5 shouldn't cost more than 1500€ and the GH5s 1800€.

I see m43 becoming evermore video centric with the ability to shoot great photos. If they can produce a GH6 and GH6s, both for the prices I mentioned, with the same sensor as the GH5s (one with IBIS and one without), improve autofocus and have the ability to check focus once filming then will have created perfect small and flexible 'video' cameras that shoot photo.

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To follow on from my last post, I'd be more than happy to get Fuji if it could do all the above. It does have a very pleasing look. To my eyes Fuji, Canon and even Olympus have special looks that are just attractive to my eye.

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7 hours ago, wolf33d said:

Anyone buying a GH5 vs a XT3 is out of his mind. The pocket has RAW so that's one thing but if you need real RAW stuff for business and work with big equipment just get a proper camera and if it's too expensive change your job.
Seriously, who is gonna spend $2000 in a GH5 now? 

 

None of these recent camera releases has persuaded me to parts ways with the GH5, here’s why: 

- Ergonomically awesome for video with loads of custom functionality. Feels MADE for video. 

- 10 bit 4:2:2 codecs are very strong. 

- MFT sensor, while Speedboosted, is easier to focus than a full frame sensor. Very adaptable. 

- Great battery life. 

- IBIS is excellent.

- EVF and Flip Out LCD are awesome. 

- @Sage Alexa conversion makes it a different camera. 

- Anamorphic modes. 

- Monitor LUT - super useful! 

I’ve tried the AF on a gimbal with the GH5 and it works quite well. Not Canon or Sony level, but decent. 

Theres features in the other cameras that look appealing, but the way I view it, how much will it change my videos? 

I’ve opted to spend and upgrade my lighting to a full Aputure setup and camera movement. These things directly influence the picture more and invite increased skill and knowledge in composition. 

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