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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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3 minutes ago, AaronChicago said:

It's $1295. Gotta keep some features on the Ursa Mini Pro only.

Put a good quality vari nd on the front and you're good to go. Some like SLR Vari mk 2 even allow polarising adjustment.

 

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29 minutes ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

For size comparisons, it is in Camerasize already.

http://camerasize.com/compare/#782,727

While far from the original pocket size, compared to any professional video cameras that shoot 4K Raw the new pocket could be considered pocketable. Or at least it can fit in a normal camera bag :tounge:

I am quite glad for the increased size compared to the original pocket actually. Proper heat sink, better battery, larger screen, better microphones, dual card slots and plenty of ports. 

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4 hours ago, tyger11 said:

Those aren't meant for swapping out all the time like SD or CFast. Maybe in some kind of sled, or a U.2 configuration. CFexpress is the NVMe standard coming up, but nobody's implemented it in a camera yet so far as I know. Maybe in the next generation of cameras...

swapping physically photo data out seems to come from the film roll paradigm, why swap out mass media when usb-c can transfer data as fast ? and if you shoot on the go, a 2gb m2 ssd = 4x 512mb sd or cf cards, do film shooter fill more than 4 cards in a day ?

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5 hours ago, sanveer said:

I think that's being unreasonable. For the buck, they are already giving WAY more than anyone else.  

 

I doubt that. They are happy offering ProRes or whatever else by the HDMI out. If Panasonic feels the heat (which nobody would really deny) they may reduce prices of their GH line. Other manufacturers may not really feel the pinch, because a lot of those don't really make the cut due to the 10-bit 4-2-2 mandate Netflix and other VoD and Broadcasters, and the limited recording times on those cameras are also a huge let down. I am guessing sales of the A7s series will be hit, because it too does good low light (much better), and it too has limited functionaliy as a photo shooting stills camera. 

Therefore, in essence, the BMPCCii has targetted the GH5 and GH5s' customers.

Curiously having RAW via HDMI won't solve the problem. The Price Difference is too great.

Well if you want a weather sealed robust camera built to survive out of the studio you might see the price difference as worth it. Also the GH5/S is much smaller. Has a flip out / tilt screen. Time code anyone? Also if flying on the new DJI Ronin M the GH5/S will work with the built in follow focus... confirmed by DJI at the show. BM... err no. Need a flash? How about dual SD slots? CFast is expensive.., I know, that’s what my 1DXMK2 eats:-)

Battery life important? Well then. 

Hey, I’m sure the larger screen is going to be great. But I promise you if you crank up the brightness you will eat through batteries. And if you are recording raw aren’t you going to need to add an external recorder/monitor anyway?

BM was mighty careful not to go on camera with any of their claims. Panasonic did not shy away. They stated they can add raw output. So if things get heavy they will likely just add that in the new Prores Raw format and be done with it. They said this at the show.

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7 hours ago, John Jay said:

I compared the 10bit ALL-I on the GH5 with external 10 bit ProresHQ at 400% on a 4K monitor, and the Panasonic codec looked better with finer detail, nicer grain pattern. The prores looked blocky at 400%. 

I think modern compressed codecs are more sophisticated than Prores and much smaller file size 

So you really think a GH5 is going to look better than this new 4k BMPCC? Really.  Even the original BMPCC is renowned for it's output, and you think it is going to be no better in this one? The one picture we have up here form it, and you think the GH5 can output a file like that? And we have no clue what setting that picture was even taken at. I would guess it is at ProResHQ but, I doubt it is Raw. But we all have different ideas of what we like output wise. That is the reason there are so many camera manufactures out there. I just could not see myself ever buying a GH5, the GH5s maybe, better color science in it to me, because I really don't like the output from it. But you do, and that is great.

I guess we will find out, " modern compressed codecs" are just that mainly so each company can have a priority codec, and mainly not to have to pay Apple for a License for ProRes. It is not always because it is better. Prue Raw is the best output by far, but it does require a good amount of work, well a lot at times to make it happen. More than the average person is willing to do. And I can understand that.

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11 minutes ago, DBounce said:

They stated they can add raw output. So if things get heavy they will likely just add that in the new Prores Raw format and be done with it. They said this at the show.

If this is true then everyone should ask for it even if they don't need it, or even have a GH5/s for that matter. It would facilitate the democratization of this price segment even more by also putting pressure on Sony or Canon/Nikon if they decide to join as well. 

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Quote

I compared the 10bit ALL-I on the GH5 with external 10 bit ProresHQ at 400% on a 4K monitor, and the Panasonic codec looked better with finer detail, nicer grain pattern. The prores looked blocky at 400%. 

You must be on some kind of drugs then. I've never seen a GH5 video that didn't look like absolute garbage at 4k... hell, it doesn't even look like a proper 2k image. The Sharpening and NR have no true off settings and it renders the detail as nothing but over-sharpened muddy-plastic. I'd like to see this GH5 video that has the "nice detail" you talking about. I'd love to be proven wrong...

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4 hours ago, jonpais said:

@IronFilm That's a bold statement. Fanboy, not?

I think he is right for anything we can afford to buy new. Raw is pretty much the best you Can do. I don't think he is implying the 4k BMPCC is going to be the best, they have started the trend on Raw, but what if Sony followed suit on a A7r mk xx with Raw, that would be pretty much it. Not unless you Need a 8k camera, which I doubt I need.

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19 minutes ago, bwhitz said:

You must be on some kind of drugs then. I've never seen a GH5 video that didn't look like absolute garbage at 4k... hell, it doesn't even look like a proper 2k image. The Sharpening and NR have no true off settings and it renders the detail as nothing but muddy-plastic. I'd like to see this GH5 video that has the "nice detail" you talking about. I'd love to be proven wrong...

I know everyone is expecting another rant at this point, since this self-proclaimed authority on image quality just pretty much labeled all my footage as trash.... but I’m actually starting to find this irrational compulsion to smear Panasonic amusing. And I’m sure we’d all really like to see this charming fellow’s website, channel or showreel. Just to see what pro footage looks like. 🙂

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6 minutes ago, bwhitz said:

You must be on some kind of drugs then. I've never seen a GH5 video that didn't look like absolute garbage at 4k... hell, it doesn't even look like a proper 2k image. The Sharpening and NR have no true off settings and it renders the detail as nothing but muddy-plastic. I'd like to see this GH5 video that has the "nice detail" you talking about. I'd love to be proven wrong...

Well, sharpening and noise reduction can't be turned off in the camera, not even when you externally record ProRes from HDMI. So, technically, an external ProRes recording should have little or no advantages over the internal 10bit recording at high bitrates. And its true that h264 high profile retains more detail than ProRes at the same bitrates (but only then).

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Sometimes I wonder if a few posters ever shot anything, really... Sorry to be sincere... :-)

You can always smooth practically anything, except a considerable weak acquisition codec at low bit rate as for instance or under certain severe artifacts such as aliasing or moiré or yet from insufficient color sampling (not exactly the case there for 95%-98% of the circumstances), going along dedicated craft and proper skills on both capture and post.

- E.

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2 minutes ago, Rinad Amir said:

Sorry if this has been asked but has BM realeased any footage to play around? of new bmpcc

And holyshit some much hate goinground for gh5😂

 

Most here have not had a hands on with this chunky beast. After they do I suspect they will understand why the two are completely different animals. Right out of the box there is nothing “pocket” about this camera.

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9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I'll be very curious if come September if the Pocket and Micro Cinema secondhand prices will finally drop below US$500 (which is what the BMPCC used to sell for new!)

Total nonsense. 

Crowdfunding is to get money in before manufacturing starts.

While BMD won't see a penny of this prior to them being sold to the dealers 

 

 

Bullshit! I've done this in the past, it's a perfectly acceptable way to fund manufacturing cost. You spend your capital on R&D, then you do pre-orders to fund initial manufacturing.

One of the more difficult things to predict with a new product is demand. If you overestimate, you'll tap available cash flow which can be painful. If you underestimate, per unit cost are higher and lead times longer because you have to wait to get a slot for a new run. Pre-orders takes care of both of theses. Just order 20% more than your protests and that will be a good first production run.

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12 minutes ago, jonpais said:

 

I know everyone is expecting another rant at this point, since this authority on image quality just pretty much labeled all my footage as trash.... but I’m actually starting to find this irrational compulsion to smear Panasonic amusing. And I’m sure we’d all really like to see this charming fellow’s website, channel or showreel. Just to see what pro footage looks like. 🙂

I didn't call YOUR footage trash... just the GH5 "image". Obviously, content is king... and I'm sure you can create great cinematic content. In fact, most modern cameras are going to allow you to create an image most audience find acceptable. BUT... let's be honest... this is a pixel peeping forum... and we're all image snobs! So I'm just being blunt. I have no idea why everyone's getting personal about shooting skills... were talking about the camera IMAGES here... not personal cinematography skills.

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6 minutes ago, Lux Shots said:

Bullshit! I've done this in the past, it's a perfectly acceptable way to fund manufacturing cost. You spend your capital on R&D, then you do pre-orders to fund initial manufacturing.

So you say that when I paid B&H 1400USD it goes straight to BMD? I’m just curious, I would think that all vendors already pay BMD for preorder stock so they already have the initial funding. Say that B&H might get an overload of preorders and then give BMD even more money as result. Again, personally, I don’t think is preordering has given BMD a dime of our money (not as of yet at least). Just my 2 cents and I have no actual idea how this works. 

3 minutes ago, bwhitz said:

I didn't call YOUR footage trash... just the GH5 "image". Obviously, content is king... and I'm sure you can create great cinematic content. In fact, most modern cameras are going to allow you to create an image most audience find acceptable. BUT... let's be honest... this is a pixel peeping forum... and we're all image snobs! So I'm just being blunt. I have no idea why everyone's getting personal about shooting skills... were talking about the camera IMAGES here... not personal cinematography skills.

Again, Jonpais, you have to calm down. If people dislike the footage produced by a camera then that has nothing to do with your final product. They’re talking about the footage out of camera, not your personally graded and corrected footage. Jesus, calm down. 

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12 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Most here have not had a hands on with this chunky beast. After they do I suspect they will understand why the two are completely different animals. Right out of the box there is nothing “pocket” about this camera.

Jesus we get you are not going to buy the God Damn thing. Give it a rest!

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4 minutes ago, Turboguard said:

So you say that when I paid B&H 1400USD it goes straight to BMD? I’m just curious, I would think that all vendors already pay BMD for preorder stock so they already have the initial funding. Say that B&H might get an overload of preorders and then give BMD even more money as result. Again, personally, I don’t think is preordering has given BMD a dime of our money (not as of yet at least). Just my 2 cents and I have no actual idea how this works. 

Again, Jonpais, you have to calm down. If people dislike the footage produced by a camera then that has nothing to do with your final product. They’re talking about the footage out of camera, not your personally graded and corrected footage. Jesus, calm down. 

It depends. A juggernaut in the retail camera space like B&H may get a line of credit in the form of net 30 or net 60. So if you pay B&H $1400, $1200 goes to Black Magic. So let's say B&H sold 100 cameras in pre-order. They will probably get a shipment for 120 and they will owe B&H the cash on the 20 in 30 or 60 days.

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