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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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8 minutes ago, Turboguard said:

So you say that when I paid B&H 1400USD it goes straight to BMD? I’m just curious, I would think that all vendors already pay BMD for preorder stock so they already have the initial funding. Say that B&H might get an overload of preorders and then give BMD even more money as result. Again, personally, I don’t think is preordering has given BMD a dime of our money (not as of yet at least). Just my 2 cents and I have no actual idea how this works. 

Again, Jonpais, you have to calm down. If people dislike the footage produced by a camera then that has nothing to do with your final product. They’re talking about the footage out of camera, not your personally graded and corrected footage. Jesus, calm down. 

There is no need to call any camera’s footage plastic looking garbage. No sensible person does this. It is offensive. Especially under the veil of anonymity, with no work to show. 

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20 minutes ago, Lux Shots said:

Bullshit! I've done this in the past, it's a perfectly acceptable way to fund manufacturing cost. You spend your capital on R&D, then you do pre-orders to fund initial manufacturing.

Blackmagic is not doing crowdfunding. They are not going to get a dime from B&H or any company on pre orders. The will go to a bank and borrow money like any large company does to build buy the materials and pay for production for the camera. Plus company's like B&D don't even charge your credit card until it ships.

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12 minutes ago, Lux Shots said:

Bullshit! I've done this in the past, it's a perfectly acceptable way to fund manufacturing cost. You spend your capital on R&D, then you do pre-orders to fund initial manufacturing.

I am sorry. Just because you think it is ‘perfectly acceptable’ doesn’t make it so. You finance your manufacturing costs through ‘finance’ not through interest free, unsecured loans from your customers. What you consider ‘perfectly acceptable’ is actually illegal in some countries.

The exception is say Kickstarter where the contract is made explicit that your payment is an unsecured loan.

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12 minutes ago, jonpais said:

There is no need to call any camera’s footage plastic looking garbage. No sensible person does this. It is offensive. Especially under the veil of anonymity, with no work to show. 

lol... it's offensive? To who? The camera? Come on... The GH5 has an image that looks like plastic. When you compare it to the detail you get with Red or even Alexa at 2k... then yes, it's garbage. And I'm a BIG fan of Panasonic actually. That's why I'm being so hard on the GH5. I know what they're capable of... the EVA1 image is fantastic. The Varicam image is also one of my favorites of the major cameras. The GH5 ACTUALLY resolves a great image... in the 6K abamorphic mode... where it looks like it disables the garbage Sharpness and NR settings. So all Panasonic has to do is write ONE STINKING LINE OF CODE to disable the horrible, horrible, image-processing. This again, has nothing to deal with one's personal work. It literally doesn't factor into the discussion about camera images.

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7 minutes ago, bwhitz said:

lol... it's offensive? To who? The camera? Come on... The GH5 has an image that looks like plastic. When you compare it to the detail you get with Red or even Alexa at 2k... then yes, it's garbage. This again, has nothing to deal with one's personal work. It literally doesn't factor into the discussion about camera images.

But greater minds than yours don’t think the GH5/GH5s image is garbage: Paul Leeming, Matthew Scott, Hugh Brownstone, Bernard Bertrand, Andrew Reid, Luke Neumann, and Filippo Chiesa, to name just a few. 

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I know it's probably not very relevant as price might change again many times before the actual shipping date but CVP lowered the price from 1029£ to 975£ (1235£ and 1170£ respectively inclusive of VAT). Is not much but is a slightly better exchange rate from $1295 :-) 

In other news we are above 500 preorders at the moment and this is just from one retailer in one country, I really hope they expected this kind of interests and will be able to ramp up production accordingly!

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13 minutes ago, jonpais said:

But greater minds than yours don’t think the GH5/GH5s image is garbage: Paul Leeming, Matthew Scott, Hugh Brownstone, Andrew Reid, Luke Neumann, and Filippo Chiesa, to name just a few. 

But how are you so sure they're "greater minds" than I? I've worked on higher profile projects than most of these guys...

But even if I'm just some weirdo on the internet... that's not the point of the discussion.

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33 minutes ago, bwhitz said:

But how are you so sure they're "greater minds" than I? I've worked on higher profile projects than most of these guys...

No showreel, zero credibility. 

Here he is again, dismissing the X-H1 as  junk.

 

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1 minute ago, bwhitz said:

But how are you so sure they're "greater minds" than I? I've worked on higher profile projects than most of these guys...

I mean, I know Andrew from here and Luke from his YouTube (also he’s being nurtured by pana, don’t think he’d come out at say anything bad as long as he has the relationship he has with them). Who are these other people, vloggers?! Also Jonpais, now you’re personally attacking and that is offensive. I work with some pretty well know clients too, and I don’t think we’d ever consider using the GH5, we did use the a7s for some underwater shots for last gig but that was because we didn’t wanna case up the Alexa nor Digital Bolex. Anyway, why are we still talking about this?

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11 minutes ago, Davide Roveri said:

I know it's probably not very relevant as price might change again many times before the actual shipping date but CVP lowered the price from 1029£ to 975£ (1235£ and 1170£ respectively inclusive of VAT). Is not much but is a slightly better exchange rate from $1295 :-) 

Yeah I got this pleasant suprise from CVP also!

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20 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Link to your showreel. 

Not relevant. Plus, I try to keep personal stuff separate from any professional stuff... that's just the internet these days. Anyways... this discussion is not subject to some "appeal to authority" fallacy. The GH5 has really bad image processing (that doesn't turn off) that makes the image relatively un-usable for high-end stuff. You can CLEARLY see it disable when shooting in 6k anamorphic mode... and subsequently make a great image in the league of higher-end cameras. But the GH5 in normal mode doesn't even look like a 2k image when put next to something like the EVA1. These things exist outside of who's-who opinions of the internet.

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52 minutes ago, bwhitz said:

lol... it's offensive? To who? The camera? Come on... The GH5 has an image that looks like plastic. When you compare it to the detail you get with Red or even Alexa at 2k... then yes, it's garbage. And I'm a BIG fan of Panasonic actually. That's why I'm being so hard on the GH5. I know what they're capable of... the EVA1 image is fantastic. The Varicam image is also one of my favorites of the major cameras. The GH5 ACTUALLY resolves a great image... in the 6K abamorphic mode... where it looks like it disables the garbage Sharpness and NR settings. So all Panasonic has to do is write ONE STINKING LINE OF CODE to disable the horrible, horrible, image-processing. This again, has nothing to deal with one's personal work. It literally doesn't factor into the discussion about camera images.

19 minutes ago, bwhitz said:

Not relevant. Plus, I try to keep personal stuff separate from any professional stuff... that's just the internet these days. Anyways... this discussion is not subject to some "appeal to authority" fallacy. The GH5 has really bad image processing (that doesn't turn off) that makes the image relatively un-usable for high-end stuff. You can CLEARLY see it disable when shooting in 6k anamorphic mode... and subsequently make a great image in the league of higher-end cameras. But the GH5 in normal mode doesn't even look like a 2k image when put next to something like the EVA1. These things exist outside of who's-who opinions of the internet.

You see? You've just found some workaround going along the 6K anamorphic mode as they call it, so at last you second so in a way or another... A bit contradictory, what does it seem? ;-)

46 minutes ago, jonpais said:

But greater minds than yours don’t think the GH5/GH5s image is garbage: Paul Leeming, Matthew Scott, Hugh Brownstone, Bernard Bertrand, Andrew Reid, Luke Neumann, and Filippo Chiesa, to name just a few. 

You've just forgotten to add yours and mine :-D

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17 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

You see? You've just found some workaround going along the 6K anamorphic mode as they call it, so at last you second so in a way or another... A bit contradictory, what does it seem? ;-)

Yea, but the anamorphic mode is not usable for most projects. Lenses can be unwieldy... defeating the purpose of the GH5's and M4/3 size... putting the GH5 on a gimbal or steady cam is tough with most anamorphic setups. Plus, the look is great, but not always what you want for every project. The larger point is... WHY CAN'T PANASONIC WRITE TWO LINES OF CODE TO TURN THE GARBAGE NOISE REDUCTION AND SHARPENING OFF!!! agggHHHHH!!!

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46 minutes ago, jonpais said:

But greater minds than yours don’t think the GH5/GH5s image is garbage: Paul Leeming, Matthew Scott, Hugh Brownstone, Bernard Bertrand, Andrew Reid, Luke Neumann, and Filippo Chiesa, to name just a few. 

I do not like hyperbolic language ("garbage", etc.) and I think that subjective opinions on how videos look ("looks plasticy") do not add much value (but are interesting). However,  I think that worse are personal comparisons that imply that some poster's opinions are more worthy than others'. While I think that is of course true, the weights placed are purely subjective and the criteria not obvious. The best videographer or DP might be a total ignoramus about anything but the camera he or she uses, or a paid shill for some manufacturer, or a poor communicator, or be logic-challenged, or see everything in black and white (not literally!). And an armchair enthusiast who never shot a video might know something others do not and have exquisite tastes regarding video art. Or someone may know more about optics, sensors, or production techniques without ever even seeing a video. Most respected critics of art (including film) do not paint or shoot. "Greater minds" is not conducive to free discussion - should there be prerequisites for posting (submit your videos, or take a test - which camera has the best low-light performance? why is 8 bit better than 10 bit? write down all the perks you have ever received from manufacturers )? :)

Yours truly, a lesser mind.

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29 minutes ago, bwhitz said:

Yea, but the anamorphic mode is not usable for most projects. Lenses can be unwieldy... defeating the purpose of the GH5's and M4/3 size... putting the GH5 on a gimbal or steady cam is tough with most anamorphic setups. Plus, the look is great, but not always what you want for every project. The larger point is... WHY CAN'T PANASONIC WRITE TWO LINES OF CODE TO TURN THE GARBAGE NOISE REDUCTION AND SHARPENING OFF!!! agggHHHHH!!!

 

You could just shoot in the 4:3 6K anamorphic then crop to widescreen like when super 35 crop on film is used tho right? Does that give similar res to the 4K mode? (haven't used a GH5 yet) Maybe they just feel people who're worried about the NR/sharpening will do this. 

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3 hours ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

For size comparisons, it is in Camerasize already.

http://camerasize.com/compare/#782,727

Wow. I didn't realise how large the BMPCC 4k is. Also, camera size comparison was quick.

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:


I'd rather have an internal eND than have 4K 60fps

Actually, apart from Sony, I don't see anyone else using an eND. Maybe they don't have the tech. Atleast yet. And maybe it is too expensive to be borrowed from Sony. 

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