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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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1 hour ago, Savannah Miller said:

Well you can't say because film used certain camera that it's somehow good?  Shane hurlbut is always promoting the same crap on his blogs, and I feel certain brands pay him and give him free stuff.  I never believe any of his opinions about what he says about gear.  Look how he promotes those Xeen lenses so heavily when in fact they're garbage compared to other similarly priced lenses like SLR Magic APO, etc.

Notice how in one quote the guy said, "We truly have tested every digital platform out there, and C500 is the best we've ever seen."  Now either that's out of context, or they're paying him to say that because what is making him say this with other cameras like RED Dragon, Arri Alexa, F65 etc. also available?

He only used the c500 because it was smaller and lighter than other cameras at the time and could shoot 4K.  Now I'm almost certain he would have gone Alexa Mini to do the same things.

I will give you some credit about Shane Hurlbut. I am not too fond of his stuff either. I mean he seems to know his stuff but he never seems to perfect anything. He is Always into the next thing, ergo camera, and never hones the cameras he already had.  Now I realize he doesn't make a big time movie every month so by the time he is on the next set new things Have come out.

But they are unproven, and sometimes it bites you in the ass. He experiments too much I think. But he does know his theory on stuff I will give him that, and definitely gives back to the community.

But it was a lot cheaper to crash C500's than Red cameras that is for sure. So I can see why he used them, and I think he was one of the first to use them. He makes a ton more money than I do that is for sure. So he has to be doing something right.

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1 hour ago, Savannah Miller said:

Notice how in one quote the guy said, "We truly have tested every digital platform out there, and C500 is the best we've ever seen."  Now either that's out of context, or they're paying him to say that because what is making him say this with other cameras like RED Dragon, Arri Alexa, F65 etc. also available?

I have no doubt that for the time and for him (that is, his particular project/needs he was on then) that the C500 was the right choice. 

Of course it doesn't mean it would be right now, or for everyone else for everything else. 

11 minutes ago, Tone1k said:

Thanks for the reply. While I understand that any piece of equipment can have many small bugs, major image issues for a device who's job it is to capture images should not be allowed to make their way into production. 

When issues are only found in edge cases then yes these too are "bugs", and not unreasonable/unexpected in a shipping product. 

And it is unfortunately quite easy for bugs to creep back in when you shift from very small production runs (often just hand built prototypes) to large scale mass production. As the changeover introduces new unknown variables and complexities (which is a common problem we've seen bite BMD and other brands)

 

11 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

But it was a lot cheaper to crash C500's than Red cameras that is for sure. So I can see why he used them, and I think he was one of the first to use them. He makes a ton more money than I do that is for sure. So he has to be doing something right.

When the C500 first came out it was a $20K camera, not really that different to a RED Scarlet, certainly the price difference would be chump change to a Hollywood production

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10 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

When the C500 first came out it was a $20K camera, not really that different to a RED Scarlet, certainly the price difference would be chump change to a Hollywood production

Probably the RED Scarlet Body "Only" cost 20K LoL. Oh you want a hand grip, a LCD, a battery adapter, or Red Mags, you get the picture. Someone can give you a body and you still can't afford the rest it takes to shoot it. 😵

The C500 body is pretty much all you need other than media for it.

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I can't recall  the details or be bothered looking it up, but from memory the base body for the RED Scarlet was sub $10K so even once adding in thousands more dollars of extras that is still probably less than a C500. But even if I give you the benefit of the doubt here (Happy to do so!), and say a RED Scarlet package is going to cost thousands of dollars more than the C500, that still doesn't matter as the rental price difference I'm sure would be so small it would be chump change for a blockbuster film like he was using it on. And that is my point. 

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29 minutes ago, Tone1k said:

Thanks for the reply. While I understand that any piece of equipment can have many small bugs, major image issues for a device who's job it is to capture images should not be allowed to make their way into production. 

Here's a Black Sun from an Alexa shoot of mine, and a nice OLPF flare from a DXL / RED Monstro on the latest Mission Impossible trailer.

JB

Alexa Black Sun.jpg

Red OLPF.jpg

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50 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I can't recall  the details or be bothered looking it up, but from memory the base body for the RED Scarlet was sub $10K so even once adding in thousands more dollars of extras that is still probably less than a C500. But even if I give you the benefit of the doubt here (Happy to do so!), and say a RED Scarlet package is going to cost thousands of dollars more than the C500, that still doesn't matter as the rental price difference I'm sure would be so small it would be chump change for a blockbuster film like he was using it on. And that is my point. 

Well I am sure Anything is cheaper than shooting Panavision whether Film or Digital. 😬

Canon C500 came out in 2012. First movies, 3 of them, were shot in 2014. C500 cost 30 grand new. The Scarlet X  introduced in 2012  by coming in at under $10,000 for the body and under $15,000 for the kit. Canon C300 came out in January 2012. Cost 16 Grand.

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Weight was the issue.  Red Scarlet and Dragon cameras in DSMC1 form factor were too heavy  for the gimbals they had at the time, and they wanted to shoot at high ISO as well, so a no-go for Alexa.  If Arri Mini was available, I'm sure they would have gone with that over C500.

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7 minutes ago, Savannah Miller said:

Weight was the issue.  Red Scarlet and Dragon cameras in DSMC1 form factor were too heavy  for the gimbals they had at the time, and they wanted to shoot at high ISO as well, so a no-go for Alexa.  If Arri Mini was available, I'm sure they would have gone with that over C500.

Out of likes. Agree on that. But the MōVI® M10 came out in 2013. So they had gimbals soon after the Canon C series stuff came out, and the Red Scarlet.

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29 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well I am sure Anything is cheaper than shooting Panavision whether Film or Digital. 😬

Canon C500 came out in 2012. First movies, 3 of them, were shot in 2014. C500 cost 30 grand new. The Scarlet X  introduced in 2012  by coming in at under $10,000 for the body and under $15,000 for the kit. Canon C300 came out in January 2012. Cost 16 Grand.

Thanks, you just made my point that choosing a C500 (over say a RED) wasn't due to the lower cost. 

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8 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Thanks, you just made my point that choosing a C500 (over say a RED) wasn't due to the lower cost. 

He used All kinds of cameras in that film. From Arri to GoPro. I would not doubt Canon helped out with the C500's, 1DC's.

https://theasc.com/ac_magazine/April2014/NeedforSpeed/page1.html

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And I'm sure if he had used RED then they'd have also helped him out as well, that is part of their job at RED to deliver top notch service. Just the same as at name other companies. 

22 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I would not doubt Canon helped out with the C500's, 1DC's.

 

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3 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

And I'm sure if he had used RED then they'd have also helped him out as well, that is part of their job at RED to deliver top notch service. Just the same as at name other companies. 

 

No I mean they probably Loaned them to Shane. They were not setting the world on fire at 30 grand a pop. They would have been stupid not too.

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3 hours ago, Tone1k said:

Thanks for the reply. While I understand that any piece of equipment can have many small bugs, major image issues for a device who's job it is to capture images should not be allowed to make their way into production. 

LOL..  I guess you know better than all the people who actually do this for a living.  I look forward to you releasing your prefect camera!!

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2 hours ago, kye said:

LOL..  I guess you know better than all the people who actually do this for a living.  I look forward to you releasing your prefect camera!!

If you read my original question, I said I understand devices like these can have bugs that need to be ironed out. What I don't understand is how a camera can be released with major imaging problems that show up under normal shooting conditions. It essentially fails at its main task. 

Would you accept a TV that did the same thing? I can't see a TV that displayed the same kind of imaging problems as BMD's cameras being allowed to market. 

You may be happy to pay for the priveledge of being a guinea pig but tests like and fixes should be done prior to release. Who wants a camera you can't use for a few months? 

5 hours ago, John Brawley said:

Here's a Black Sun from an Alexa shoot of mine, and a nice OLPF flare from a DXL / RED Monstro on the latest Mission Impossible trailer.

JB

Alexa Black Sun.jpg

Red OLPF.jpg

Hi John, yeah I had similar issues with OLPF flare with the Epic. I get the point, Alexa black sun looks tiny in comparison to BMD's original problem but anyway..... all I wanted to know is if the cameras go through more vigorous testing than the gen 1 cameras BMD produced. 

I understand you can't comment.... 

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24 minutes ago, Tone1k said:

Would you accept a TV that did the same thing? I can't see a TV that displayed the same kind of imaging problems as BMD's cameras being allowed to market. 

It happens. In the very early days of flatscreen HD TVs, I bought a very expensive Sony Bravia with 'Reality Engine' blah blah. I couldn't believe my eyes when I  first watched a closeup of a face on it. As the person talked, the eyes, nose and mouth would move slightly out of synch with each other. I went through all the settings but couldn't get rid of the slightly trippy effect. Needless to say I didn't have the TV for long and went back to having a CRT tv until the flatscreen tech was good enough. I decided then that being an early adopter was not necessarily a good idea. 

I have pre-ordered the BMPCC4K though 🙂

2 hours ago, kaylee said:

im shooting my next film on potato

If it overheats, you can always eat it. 

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