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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

And I can run out and buy a Barbie Cam and say I have a video camera.

Not sure what this statement means, but if  a Barbie Cam is anything like a Pixel Vision camera, I like to shoot a test with it.

 

 

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Comparing a Kinefinity FF Mavo to a Panavision is well, laughable.

Why?   There are certainly will be differences in the format, and certain color nuances, but what exactly do you think will better or worse in the performance/usability/reliability between the Panavision DXL and the FF Kinefinity Mavo (which has not yet been released)?

 

 

 

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

It is advertised as a FF camera. It is NOT a FF camera.

Well, the page from the dealer ProAV is a little misleading, but that dealer does list the sensor size in at least two places on the page.

 

In addition, the results are almost identical to using a full frame lens having an FFD of an EF lens or longer.  Plus, you get an extra stop of brightness over using just a full frame lens with a full frame sensor, and you also have the option to use any S35 lens directly and get complete coverage (which is not possible with a non-croppable FF sensor).  Furthermore, you can use FF lenses with a tilt adapter, which works perfectly with an S35 sensor.

 

By the way, Kinefinity will be releasing their FF Mavo sometime soon.

 

 

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I can take a A6000 and add a SB and it is NOT a FF camera. It is a APSC camera that pretends to be a FF camera. 

With a good speedbooster, the results would be almost identical to a FF camera, plus you get that extra stop and the other options mentioned above.

 

 

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Why in the hell would anyone Ever pay the extra money for a FF camera if all you had to do was buy a new 500 dollar cheap ass APSC camera and add a SB?

I am glad you asked that question!  There are a lot of advantages (mentioned above) to using a focal reducer with a S35/APSC sensor over just shooting with a FF camera.

 

On the other hand, a S35/APSC sensor cannot work if one wants to shoot MF inexpensively by using a MF speed booster (such as the Kipon) -- a FF camera with a shallow mount is required.  Additionally, if a FF camera with a shallow mount features a decent S35/APSC crop, then one has the best of both worlds!  Such a camera is extremely versatile!

 

So, there are valid reasons to get a FF camera over shooting equivalent FF with a S35/APSC camera and a focal reducer.

 

Of course, there are also those who want FF who cannot fathom using a focal reducer or any other kind of adapter.

 

 

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Why would any dumbass ever buy the Kinefinity FF Mavo when all they have to do is slap a SB on the cheap Kinefinity?

Well, most of the dumbasses are probably going with Canon -- not Kinefinity.  Canon makes good cameras, but due to the brand popularity it appeals to the "low common denominator."

 

Some might buy the FF Mavo over a camera with smaller sensor because of the reasons I gave directly above.

 

 

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Cause it Ain't the same thing. 

The results are virtually identical with a quality focal reducer.

 

 

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:
5 hours ago, tupp said:

By the way, which camera do you have with an APSC sensor?  Unless you can afford the Angenieux or the newer White Point alternatives, your camera needs to have a shallow mount to take a focal reducer -- that's sort of the point that a few of us have been trying to make in several forum threads. 

Ever heard of a Canon 550D, a 80D, Sony A6000?

Yes.  All good cameras.

 

However, you probably won't be able to put any existing speedbooster on the 550D and the 80D, because they don't have a shallow mount.

 

Did I mention that you have to have a shallow mount to use a speedbooster (and most other adapters)?  Not sure I did, because you bring up the 550D and 80D -- both of which have EF mounts (not shallow).  This point seems lost on many, as apparently some of us can repeat several times that a shallow mount it necessary to use a speedbooster and most other adapters (and, hence, most other lenses), and the point doesn't seem to sink in.

 

You do understand that a shallow mount is required to use speedboosters, tilt adapters and adapters for most lenses, don't you?  There is a whole universe of lenses that cannot work with EF nor PL mounts.  These are the reasons why some of us push for cameras to have shallow mounts.

 

One exception to this might be the focal reducer designed for the Angenieux EZ-1 zooms, but they cannot fit on every DSLR, and, of course, they only work with the Angenieux EZ-1 zooms -- they don't work with any other lenses.  Angenieux can considerably lighten one's wallet, as well. 

 

Not sure, but I think that the White Point focal reducer is designed to work only with the White Point medium format lenses, and I think that the only mount for those focal reducers are PL mount.  So, this new White Point setup might be an exception to the MF focal reducer requiring a shallow mount.

 

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26 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@tupp But is a shallow mount necessary to use a focal reducer? 😂

Yes, with apparently the only current exceptions being:  the Angenieux EZ-1 focal reducer (only works with EZ-1 zooms on PL and some EF mount cameras); the White Point focal reducer for medium format lenses (PL mount?); and @lucabutera's clever NX-1 speedbooster (semi-shallow NX-1 mount).

 

I think @lucabutera also made a focal reducer that that can be installed permanently inside a BMD camera.  Perhaps he or someone else who knows about this can chime in.

 

... ah, you got me!  It's late here.  Going to bed now...

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You don't need shallow mount to use a focal reducer.

You just need a mount that provides enough room for the lenses necessary to perform focal reduction.  In the case of the Lucadapter, the lenses are in the tube that is inside the 4.6K EF mount, so you just screw a new one in.

In the case of most speedboosters it's just easier to start with a shorter mount and expand to a longer one, such as EF or PL

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I’m actually tired of adapters and the ones I do use are either thin adapters for adapting to EF or permanent Leitax adapters, which turn the lens into an EF Mount.

With Micro 4/3, I have zero interest in using a speedbooster or big clunky adapters required for most still lenses... so with the 2x crop of the P4K, I am left with native lenses... the smaller Rokinon Cine lenses are decent, as are some Olympus lenses. My original thought of using only c-mount lenses leaves me with no wide or wide normal options since BM decided to go with a traditional M4/3 sensor and the only c-mount lenses that will work are 25mm focal lengths or higher.

Since I decided to invest in Canon glass, this leaves the P4K in a weird spot for me. On one hand... it is very cheap, on the other... I’ll have to invest in lenses I don’t foresee myself using beyond this camera.

Also, my main interest in the camera is for the 1080p ProRes up to 120p... so as cheap as the camera is, for some slow motion... it becomes a pretty hefty investment when you add lenses, IR filtration, and perhaps an OLPF filter.

I think I’ll probably wait for an open box model to pop up somewhere and get the camera even cheaper than the release price. Or even better... since I am already invested in Canon glass and I am happy as hell with ML Raw... I may just stow the money I would put towards the P4K and save up for a C200... by this time next year, they will probably start going on sale for a reasonable price. 

Or maybe if I feel like putzing around with a camera in between shooting days, I’ll pick up an M50 for my C-Mounts or an OG C100.

Either way I decide to go, there is absolutely no doubt that the P4K will be an awesome camera eventually... the XLR input alone is worth its weight in gold.

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26 minutes ago, mercer said:

I’m actually tired of adapters and the ones I do use are either thin adapters for adapting to EF or permanent Leitax adapters, which turn the lens into an EF Mount.

With Micro 4/3, I have zero interest in using a speedbooster or big clunky adapters required for most still lenses... so with the 2x crop of the P4K, I am left with native lenses... the smaller Rokinon Cine lenses are decent, as are some Olympus lenses. My original thought of using only c-mount lenses leaves me with no wide or wide normal options since BM decided to go with a traditional M4/3 sensor and the only c-mount lenses that will work are 25mm focal lengths or higher.

Since I decided to invest in Canon glass, this leaves the P4K in a weird spot for me. On one hand... it is very cheap, on the other... I’ll have to invest in lenses I don’t foresee myself using beyond this camera.

Also, my main interest in the camera is for the 1080p ProRes up to 120p... so as cheap as the camera is, for some slow motion... it becomes a pretty hefty investment when you add lenses, IR filtration, and perhaps an OLPF filter.

I think I’ll probably wait for an open box model to pop up somewhere and get the camera even cheaper than the release price. Or even better... since I am already invested in Canon glass and I am happy as hell with ML Raw... I may just stow the money I would put towards the P4K and save up for a C200... by this time next year, they will probably start going on sale for a reasonable price. 

Or maybe if I feel like putzing around with a camera in between shooting days, I’ll pick up an M50 for my C-Mounts or an OG C100.

Either way I decide to go, there is absolutely no doubt that the P4K will be an awesome camera eventually... the XLR input alone is worth its weight in gold.

Well I also invested deeply into EF lenses. (shooting with UMP EF), so I will get a metabones speedbooster instead. As EF lenses are still the best still lenses mount choice. Not because I like the EF mount, but because you can mount EF lenses to about any camera and not vica versa.  I shoot manual anyway so I dont care for the autofocus problems. 

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6 hours ago, Savannah Miller said:

And Blackmagic does give a lot for a very little.  If you look at cameras under $10K, outside of the Ursa Mini Pro, how many of those could you comfortably use on a major Union television production with no compromise?  

Well the Sony PMW-F55 (and F65!) and Arri Alexa Classic are sub $10K on eBay now....

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5 hours ago, anonim said:

So BM mission with new Pocket is for me even broader... lets imagine why not to further rehousing it in truly smaller m43 camcorder body with integrated all necessary connections... or even (someone else with combining know/how) with IBIS as advantage of (till the yesterday) "small" unprofessional sensor.

I'm love to see an "URSA Micro" with the BMPCC4K sensor in it.

 

Just now, zerocool22 said:

Yeah only problem with that is what if something breaks, the cost of the repairs will probably exceed the price of a ursa mini pro.

Nah, just buy another one! 😉

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1 hour ago, zerocool22 said:

Well I also invested deeply into EF lenses. (shooting with UMP EF), so I will get a metabones speedbooster instead. As EF lenses are still the best still lenses mount choice. Not because I like the EF mount, but because you can mount EF lenses to about any camera and not vica versa.  I shoot manual anyway so I dont care for the autofocus problems. 

Are you going to sell your UMP or use the P4K as a B-Cam? Well, either way, a speedbooster makes sense for you, especially if you’re using EF-S lenses. Since I’m shooting FF, there aren’t many wide angle options that even a speedbooster would solve.

I actually like the EF Mount, there are more than enough good Canon lenses at reasonable prices... some of which have excellent image stabilization and then there are plenty of options to adapt Nikkor, Contax Zeiss, Pentax, etc...lenses to EF Mount.

There are also some options to have FD lenses modified to EF and also a couple Minolta lenses as well... which I am in the process of doing. If you prefer Cinema lenses you don’t have as many options but there are a few... in fact, I believe there are some PL mount lenses that will work with EF.

So yeah, not as many options as a shallow mount, but a lot of those options are lenses that I either can’t afford or don’t really need for my filmmaking goals.

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3 hours ago, mercer said:

Since I decided to invest in Canon glass, this leaves the P4K in a weird spot for me. On one hand... it is very cheap, on the other... I’ll have to invest in lenses I don’t foresee myself using beyond this camera.

Also, my main interest in the camera is for the 1080p ProRes up to 120p... so as cheap as the camera is, for some slow motion... it becomes a pretty hefty investment when you add lenses, IR filtration, and perhaps an OLPF filter.

I think I’ll probably wait for an open box model to pop up somewhere and get the camera even cheaper than the release price. Or even better... since I am already invested in Canon glass and I am happy as hell with ML Raw... I may just stow the money I would put towards the P4K and save up for a C200... by this time next year, they will probably start going on sale for a reasonable price. 

Or maybe if I feel like putzing around with a camera in between shooting days, I’ll pick up an M50 for my C-Mounts or an OG C100.

Either way I decide to go, there is absolutely no doubt that the P4K will be an awesome camera eventually... the XLR input alone is worth its weight in gold.

Ahh I think you Have to go with a Speedbooster in the long run on the P4K. Just for helping with the crop factor alone. You are talking over a s35 size on some aspect ratios used. And the ability to use your EF Glass, or some of the cheaper Cine lenses would be a bonus to use also. And t help with low light is a bonus to boot.

 

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7 hours ago, tupp said:

Not sure what this statement means, but if  a Barbie Cam is anything like a Pixel Vision camera, I like to shoot a test with it.

 

In addition, the results are almost identical to using a full frame lens having an FFD of an EF lens or longer.  Plus, you get an extra stop of brightness over using just a full frame lens with a full frame sensor, and you also have the option to use any S35 lens directly and get complete coverage (which is not possible with a non-croppable FF sensor).  Furthermore, you can use FF lenses with a tilt adapter, which works perfectly with an S35 sensor.

With a good speedbooster, the results would be almost identical to a FF camera, plus you get that extra stop and the other options mentioned above.

I am glad you asked that question!  There are a lot of advantages (mentioned above) to using a focal reducer with a S35/APSC sensor over just shooting with a FF camera.

 

On the other hand, a S35/APSC sensor cannot work if one wants to shoot MF inexpensively by using a MF speed booster (such as the Kipon) -- a FF camera with a shallow mount is required.  Additionally, if a FF camera with a shallow mount features a decent S35/APSC crop, then one has the best of both worlds!  Such a camera is extremely versatile!

 

So, there are valid reasons to get a FF camera over shooting equivalent FF with a S35/APSC camera and a focal reducer.

Of course, there are also those who want FF who cannot fathom using a focal reducer or any other kind of adapter.

 

 

Never have owned one, but hell it might get the job done who knows?  The price is sure good. 😜

https://www.amazon.com/BE-278-Barbie-Wireless-Video-Camera/dp/B00006666K

 

Yeah my Sony A7s has that APSC crop thingy and it is a Great feature no doubt. Helps with Rolling Shutter, and it gives your lens a boost focal length wise. With it and Clear Zoom it is like having 4 different lenses in one.

I don't have a SP for my Sony. But I know it does help if you use it to get back up to FF on them, to help with the RS problem the A7s has. They are pretty terrible for RS. One of the worse. 

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1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Never have owned one, but hell it might get the job done who knows?  The price is sure good. 😜

https://www.amazon.com/BE-278-Barbie-Wireless-Video-Camera/dp/B00006666K

Thanks for the link.  The only footage from the camera that I found is evidently included in a commercial for the camera.

 

I was hoping that it would have an interesting character, like the Pixel Vision camera.

 

 

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Well the Sony PMW-F55 (and F65!) and Arri Alexa Classic are sub $10K on eBay now....

That's amazing!  The Codex drives for the Alexa have been discontinued.  I wonder if there is a way to rebuild the ones that died.

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2 hours ago, tupp said:

Thanks for the link.  The only footage from the camera that I found is evidently included in a commercial for the camera.

 

I was hoping that it would have an interesting character, like the Pixel Vision camera.

 

You can look at this one. Same concept. And Philip Bloom is doing it.

 

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4 hours ago, tupp said:

That's amazing!  The Codex drives for the Alexa have been discontinued.  I wonder if there is a way to rebuild the ones that died.

Eh, I'd just shoot to SxS cards anyway. Or use an external recorder from CD or Atomos for ArriRaw

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On 7/10/2018 at 4:50 PM, jlabscreative said:

Based on the dimensions it will fit comfortably on the Ronin S.

Three months ago I was salty about not getting a Micro 2. Now I'm ready to upgrade just for that 4k60!

cameras.gif.bb5010939aac96432c20ae5aa83159a5.gif

Hey @John Brawley can you pass feedback for future cameras? Me and some happy BM owners would love to see a Micro Pro with a positive lock MFT mount, SDI out and swappable rear battery plates. I know we are a niche market but those things would make the Micro v2 epic. :)

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