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Panasonic seems to be announcing something "BIG" on December 15

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6 hours ago, jonpais said:

Sensor size is only one part of the equation. Read noise is another, which can have a greater influence  on dynamic range than sensor size. I don’t know what the theoretical limit is, but if the GH5 is already capable of 12 stops of DR, I see no reason why we can’t get more, unless all scientific research comes to a screeching halt. BTW, the GH2 had 7-8 stops of DR.

More like 11.3 stops. But closer to 7-8 for video and maybe 10 stops or less for usable dybamic range for photo.  Which TBO is reasonable because non-HDR monitors are like 6-7 stops anyway.

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Panasonic/Lumix-DMC-GH2

 

 

3 hours ago, Shirozina said:

But it isn't capable of 12 sops of 'usable' DR.

The GH4 and GH5 have very similar video dybamic range. But, apparently the GH5 has more Usable Dynamic Range (less noise in the highlights and shadows, and better at grading). 

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The original RED one was only rated at 9 stops maximum by DPs once it was out in the field....to talk about the GH5 with ONLY 12 stops, means that if it  had 14 stops, that person would just have something else to complain about....oh wait....there is....the terrible AF😂😂

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Ok, I’m leaning towards a new camera as opposed to firmware. A second image has emerged that shows a red ring around the dial of the camera that Casey Neistat is using in the helicopter video. This would seem to confirm the earlier analysis of the frame grab from the video posted by  @Neumann Films that seemed to show a red ring on the right dial. Since this red ring is Panasonics new design language to signify top tier cameras in the Lumix lineup this it stands to reason they would use it on this more expensive model. 

Also there is another image of the front of the camera that seems to show s red letter below the model designation.

casey_redring.jpg

 

So why did the GH5 not get a red ring? Will future GH5 get the red ring?

3395F063-AA25-41F1-A086-D2F8C447AF55.jpeg

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11 hours ago, jonpais said:

Like Matthew Scott, I’ve never needed more than 10 stops anyhow. Anything more is just a bonus.

Bingo ! I’ve always liked how you expose your images. When you know what you are doing 10 stops is plenty !

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The thing is, that as long as the IF,IF,IF rumours are right, this camera might be able to have that 10 stops at ISO 3200 by the sensor and maybe even more via technology.

The three cameras I have

Old retired Nikon D50 has about 10 stops DR (RAW stills) at ISO 400, the GX7 has about 10 stops at ISO 1600 (a bit less) and the A7s has about 10 stops at ISO 6400.

I am happy with even less than that in many cases (even 7 in really low light since there isn't going to be a huge range that I can see in real life then anyway).

A bit more at ISOs 3200 to 25600 is something I am always happy to take.

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You guys are talking about having 10 stops for grading down to a 6 or 7 stop rec709 delivery. And, yes,...that is perfectly OK.

But rec709 is now pretty old and wont last forever. In 5 years most TVs will easily display 10 stops or even much more. BT2020 and HDR will be very common and you will need to deliver in a bigger color space.

More dynamic range will be very "common" in the very near future. Even YouTube and Vimeo have HDR 10bit codecs going into homes now. Its at an early stage but its already happening on properly flagged HDR uploads.

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For those that are happy with things as they are, great you are done upgrading. For myself I will take all the flexibility I can get. Would love clean lowlight. I’ll take 15 stops of DR. I have six hdr displays, so I’m sure I’ll be able to see a difference on one of them. 

I for one am sick of reviewing footage only to find the image turned to mush or there was color noise in the shadows. 

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Some seriously unrealistic speculation with the un-named GH-whatever. Look at the A7r2/3 and the d850 - neither have 10 stops with 14-bit raw stills at 3200, and m43 sensors are far behind that number. Video will be much further behind. Not sure what everyone is smoking, but the unrealistic expectations here are setting the stage for some major disappointments. 

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40 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

Some seriously unrealistic speculation with the un-named GH-whatever. Look at the A7r2/3 and the d850 - neither have 10 stops with 14-bit raw stills at 3200, and m43 sensors are far behind that number. Video will be much further behind. Not sure what everyone is smoking, but the unrealistic expectations here are setting the stage for some major disappointments. 

 

The current GH5 has 10 stops at midway between ISO 1600 and 3200 so is close and using a lower res/larger pixel sensor designed FOR low light should be much better than that and I think there would be little use in making the camera if it wasn't able to do 10 stops at ISO 3200 normally. 

The issue with M43 to me isn't so much DR at ISOs up to 3200  but beyond that that M43 cameras fall away quickly currently (the GH5 falls away a stop between 3200 and 6400 ISOs while some FF cameras might fall away a stop between 3200 and 12800.

I don't think this sensor will be up to the better FF DR lenses at high ISOs by itself but with HDR technology?

The extra DR from combining shots for video could easily get above that if they can do it.      I shoot jpegs a lot and use in camera HDR quite often and if they can do the same sort of thing with video now in a camera at this level, there is no reason that 14 or 15 stops at ISO 3200 or higher isn't possible.

 

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1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

 It is brand new sensor technology potentially though.

On-chip HDR with the quad bayer has never been seen before, in any camera.

If the frame grabs are 6k, how can the sensor be 10MP? Minimum would be 16MP. But likely higher if downsampled.

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in @Neumann Films video teaser, the end is "THE BEST VLOG EVER" which clearly is a hint for the best V-LOG ever. 
So GH5s will either film RAW with V-LOG, or get as @Andrew Reid said it will have HDR or some sort of things.

I am afraid we won't see a different AF which is all I care about. Could not care less about RAW and huge files when GH5 can give me 10bit in nice small bitrate

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48 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

in @Neumann Films video teaser, the end is "THE BEST VLOG EVER" which clearly is a hint for the best V-LOG ever. 
So GH5s will either film RAW with V-LOG, or get as @Andrew Reid said it will have HDR or some sort of things.

I am afraid we won't see a different AF which is all I care about. Could not care less about RAW and huge files when GH5 can give me 10bit in nice small bitrate

How can it be both V-Log and RAW at once? just asking... But yeah, I like where you're going with this...

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Strange that when the GH5 came out a few months ago it was hailed as an amazing camera that fulfilled may people's dreams of a near perfect camera for very little money. Now there seems to be hysterical expectation for a new one that will promise to fix a suddenly important  list of faults and deficiencies.......

 

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