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Andrew Reid

Cinema5D slates the Panasonic GH5, calls V-LOG and 10bit "unusable" - They're wrong

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13 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Yeah, I'm of an age that knows a history without the information super highway mobile World Wide Web, so I had a life untethered. Maybe I romanticize that nostalgia a bit, but, among other things, I do know what it was like to have a conversation with friends about stuff before an easy answer was in everyone's pocket. 

Yup, I grew up in the country with no cable and we had to chop firewood for heat...lol.  I always find this to be a fascinating discussion though...I think people of our age group are some of the "oldest young people" in history.  We know of a life (pre internet/cell phones) that younger folks can't even comprehend.  

The invention of the automobile and people that experienced life before and after cars probably went though something similar.  

At 33 years old,  I can instantly feel like an "old man" when talking to 20 year old simply by discussing what life was like as a kid for me.  Usually that seems to take a full generation to happen.

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5 minutes ago, Neumann Films said:

Yup, I grew up in the country with no cable and we had to chop firewood for heat...lol.  I always find this to be a fascinating discussion though...I think people of our age group are some of the "oldest young people" in history.  We know of a life (pre internet/cell phones) that younger folks can't even comprehend.  

The invention of the automobile and people that experienced life before and after cars probably went though something similar.  

At 33 years old,  I can instantly feel like an "old man" when talking to 20 year old simply by discussing what life was like as a kid for me.  Usually that seems to take a full generation to happen.

I'm 42. In high school computer classes involved typing and running some DOS program. I think I had my first legal drink before I ever sent an email. I remember the days when I would yell at my brother to get off the phone because I was hoping some girl was going to call... she never did. Lol. Well she probably did but gave up because of the busy signal. Hell I remember when call waiting was the newest technology that I had to explain to my parents when they kept asking why the phone kept beeping at them. Lol. 

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4 minutes ago, mercer said:

I'm 42. In high school computer classes involved typing and running some DOS program. I think I had my first legal drink before I ever sent an email. I remember the days when I would yell at my brother to get off the phone because I was hoping some girl was going to call... she never did. Lol. Well she probably did but gave up because of the busy signal. Hell I remember when call waiting was the newest technology that I had to explain to my parents when they kept asking why the phone kept beeping at them. Lol. 

Yup, I ran some video games from DOS.  I remember using the internet for the first time to play Dark Forces: Jedi Knight with a friend, he had to call my parents land line and the phone would actually ring, then I would pick up etc, very weird.  Also...we had a shared land line with neighbors at one point and one of those old phones with the dial.  So, we would pick up the phone to call and a neighbor would be using the phone so you had to wait.  I can just see how this would sound to a 20 year old, like a post-apocalyptic Sci-Fi or something!

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1 hour ago, Neumann Films said:

Yup, I grew up in the country with no cable and we had to chop firewood for heat...lol.

Well, in my case that's true as well...although we eventually got basic cable when I was in high school.  My mom kept the household at a temperature that rivaled the refrigerator.  Maybe that was her plan.  Save money on heating and keep the meat chilled simultaneously.

59 minutes ago, mercer said:

she probably did but gave up because of the busy signal.

I wish I could use this excuse for my lack of youthful companionship.  I had more challenges than a landline could affect.

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Please don't quit Andrew! I love your reviews and honest approach to informing your readership. I have over 10 years of experience in Hollywood, I have a GH3 and have bought your GH3 shooters guide. I saw the Cinema5Ds review and was also puzzled a bit as to their conclusions. Please keep up the good work on here. I am looking to upgrade from my GH3 in the near future and will be relying heavily on your thoughtful critiques and reviews. Thank you again for this post about identifying industry fakers. Best of luck to you good sir!

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I concur with everyone here.  It's not worth quitting over it.  I don't post much here, but I enjoy coming here and other sites dedicated to indy and enthusiasts in video/filmmaking.  The Panny GHx years intrigued me in the early 2010s and it was you that made it possible for me to try out videography.  Opinions are just that... opinions; everybody has them.  Creativity trumps all of that.

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@Andrew Reid I registered here in 2012, and was lurking around here since before that. I used to read a lot of the other people & sites like Nofilmschool, Philip Bloom's & Dave Dugdale's blogs. Been reading most of them for years and have since abandoned them, but I've stayed on this site not just because of the excellent forum, but also because I've loved reading your articles.

I get that it takes motivation, time and effort to write your articles. But I for one would be happy if you didn't stop!

My own favourite articles and what gets me really interested is when you review cameras in the 500-3000 euro range. I've learnt a lot about the video quality from those cameras from your articles. 

I visit the other video related sites max once a month these days. EosHD is the only weekly video-related site I can bother with (no click-baity headlines, proper articles instead of the copy-paste type of content that exists on nofilmschool today...).

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Yes it would be a sad day if you stopped this great resource Andrew. I hope you realise there are a hell of a lot of us out there that do know the difference between your knowledge and insights and..., well others. Some sites are down right insulting to ones intelligence, and embarrassing to themselves. So I concur with the above, I am always looking to your perspective as the yardstick to measure by. You are thorough and unbiased and exhaustive in your methods, a true artist in forensic detail, I love that.

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Quote

our commitment to re-evaluating our test methodology based on reader comments

This is the first I've heard from them indicating that their testing methodology may have been less than comprehensive, but it's a welcome admission.

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1 hour ago, ade towell said:

it seems Cinema5d have now taken the article offline....

https://www.cinema5d.com/panasonic-gh5-lab-test-temporarily-offline/

Wow! In my own blog, I just discretely add or delete stuff from my reviews as I get more information, but I only have around five followers.

I was just looking at the comments section over at 43 rumors from last week, when I came across this gem from Michael:

Many years ago I got to preview the Cinema5D website before their site launched. I noticed some flaws in the site. Instead of giving the site operators feedback on potential issues, I decided to alert everyone I could on the Internet, that the site was flawed beyond repair and that people shouldn't bother visiting the site. A lot of people were stunned and angry about my opinion, but I don't tolerate rude responses and that kind of tone.

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3 hours ago, jonpais said:

I decided to alert everyone I could on the Internet, that the site was flawed beyond repair and that people shouldn't bother visiting the site. A lot of people were stunned and angry about my opinion, but I don't tolerate rude responses and that kind of tone.

What's the context of that?  I'm not up enough on the saga to parse it.

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6 hours ago, ade towell said:

it seems Cinema5d have now taken the article offline....

https://www.cinema5d.com/panasonic-gh5-lab-test-temporarily-offline/

Some things to know about this -

Panasonic understandably were not happy with the flawed test.

C5D - "We have decided to temporarily remove this content while awaiting further feedback from the manufacturer."

Rediculously Seb is still blaming the removal of the test on "agitation from the community" rather than plainly putting his hands up and saying "we got it wrong", which I for one would have welcomed.

Full statement: "Due to the agitated discussion and hostility arising from our test of the Panasonic GH5, and our commitment to re-evaluating our test methodology based on reader comments, we have decided to temporarily remove this content while awaiting further feedback from the manufacturer. We value feedback from our audience, and our common goal is to find the most affordable and portable cinema tools out there."

Forgive me for thinking C5D's goal was to blog about professional gear, all $6000+

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On 3/11/2017 at 0:22 AM, Andrew Reid said:

I am completely disillusioned with the industry, the direction it is headed in, the lack of creativity, the focus on pros, the lack of quality online rivals, the bitterness that exists in the blogging community and the amount of clickbate out there.

It's going to take a miracle for me to get my passion back.

On going your own way Friedrich Nietzsche had this to say: "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

And on differences, this: “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”

Once, on a long walk in the mountains, an elderly gentleman echoed the sentiment when he told me that "Everything is opinion", to which I opined, "That's your opinion". Now that I think of it, he was probably paraphrasing Nietzsche at the time.

Walk your own path. Who cares about the others.

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1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Some things to know about this -

Panasonic understandably were not happy with the flawed test.

C5D - "We have decided to temporarily remove this content while awaiting further feedback from the manufacturer."

Rediculously Seb is still blaming the removal of the test on "agitation from the community" rather than plainly putting his hands up and saying "we got it wrong", which I for one would have welcomed.

Full statement: "Due to the agitated discussion and hostility arising from our test of the Panasonic GH5, and our commitment to re-evaluating our test methodology based on reader comments, we have decided to temporarily remove this content while awaiting further feedback from the manufacturer. We value feedback from our audience, and our common goal is to find the most affordable and portable cinema tools out there."

Forgive me for thinking C5D's goal was to blog about professional gear, all $6000+

Seems like C5D's  trying to back out of this very carefully....should really have applied some of that caution when making the extremely inflammatory statement about "unusable 10bit and Vlog" in the first place!

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7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Some things to know about this -

Panasonic understandably were not happy with the flawed test.

C5D - "We have decided to temporarily remove this content while awaiting further feedback from the manufacturer."

Rediculously Seb is still blaming the removal of the test on "agitation from the community" rather than plainly putting his hands up and saying "we got it wrong", which I for one would have welcomed.

Full statement: "Due to the agitated discussion and hostility arising from our test of the Panasonic GH5, and our commitment to re-evaluating our test methodology based on reader comments, we have decided to temporarily remove this content while awaiting further feedback from the manufacturer. We value feedback from our audience, and our common goal is to find the most affordable and portable cinema tools out there."

Forgive me for thinking C5D's goal was to blog about professional gear, all $6000+

This, in the comments, comes across as equally disingenuous:

Sebastian Wöber March 3, 2017

Hi Chris,
Thank you for your appreciation of what we do. Being honest has big downsides in this industry and we work extremely hard to keep up what we’re doing. I’m very interested in what a camera “truly” does and I think people should know and that keeps us doing what we do even though the cost is usually high. So far we’re pulling through and comments like these truly keep us alive.
If there’s anything to improve what we do we’re always listening as we feel part of a larger community that we serve.

 

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1 hour ago, Davey said:

This, in the comments, comes across as equally disingenuous:

Sebastian Wöber March 3, 2017

Hi Chris,
Thank you for your appreciation of what we do. Being honest has big downsides in this industry 

 

Wow, that ... dismisses all criticism as being just "people who don't like or appreciate honesty." "I'm very sorry to get caught Your Honour" is another great apology. 

Quote

Many years ago I got to preview the Cinema5D website before their site launched. I noticed some flaws in the site. Instead of giving the site operators feedback on potential issues, I decided to alert everyone I could on the Internet, that the site was flawed beyond repair and that people shouldn't bother visiting the site. A lot of people were stunned and angry about my opinion, but I don't tolerate rude responses and that kind of tone.

Oh that's just gold! @fuzzynormal he was just reversing the argument, replace "C5D website" with "GH5" and you'll get it.

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